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Anything new in the Tidal world?

24.38.204.140
Posted on March 18, 2017 at 07:43:16
zacster
Audiophile

Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 After my Tidal trial period ended I stopped being able to see what was new coming out in MQA. Has there been any progress? I see a post from 2 weeks ago below, but anything else?

And when will Audioquest release the upgraded firmware for the Dragonfly Dacs to allow MQA? After being teased with that they pulled the rug out and said "later".

 

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RE: Anything new in the Tidal world?, posted on March 18, 2017 at 12:34:24
Diogenes
Audiophile

Posts: 315
Joined: February 17, 2014
 nada classical. and my audirvana still won't run masters.

 

On both fronts, not much, posted on March 20, 2017 at 13:24:32
RJeff
Audiophile

Posts: 1347
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: June 27, 2001
 The one positive note is that Tidal has started labeling the Masters with an "M" in a box, so I am no longer clicking both versions to find out which is which.

The number of new albums on the list is slowing to a trickle. May have to wait for the other labels to roll out their catalogs to see an uptick.

On the AQ front, I tweeted them for an ETA and got the bland non-committal response of "We're working on it, and we'll let you know as soon as it's ready."
Feel a little cheated - they were claiming by the end of January at CES; I suspect they had tipped the reviewers much earlier. It's the only way I can explain Art Dudley's cryptic comment at the end of his review about upcoming upgrade-ability.

Jeff
"Decaf is for cowards."
Jack Kevorkian

 

RE: On both fronts, not much, posted on March 20, 2017 at 16:01:36
zacster
Audiophile

Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 This is why I decided not to continue with Tidal, at least not yet. With all of the titles out there, why are there only a handful of about a thousand available? And only about 10 titles became available after I joined in the month I had it.

As for AQ, I stopped holding my breath over vaporware a long time ago.

 

About those Dragonfly DACs..., posted on March 20, 2017 at 18:52:55
Archimago
Audiophile

Posts: 821
Joined: January 18, 2002
 Guys, this is where a little research into the Dragonfly DACs could be helpful. Remember that the Dragonfly Red and Black DACs are using a Microchip PIC32MX processor inside.

There is not enough horsepower for much processing. This is why it depends on software decode in TIDAL on your computer. At best, I suspect the device will just detect an MQA stream and plug in some custom parameters for the filter on the DAC chip. No fancy further unfolding to 192kHz since there's just not enough processor cycles...

No surprise they're taking their time. We shall see, but I very much suspect the difference in sound will be essentially placebo.

-------
Archimago's Musings: A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

 

RE: About those Dragonfly DACs..., posted on March 21, 2017 at 04:19:30
zacster
Audiophile

Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 Even if they are able to make it work, I'd suspect that the power requirement would just eat up my iPhone's battery, assumimg that Tidal MQA would even be available on an iPhone. The DFB is OK now, it takes more power than just straight headphones, but still quite usable.

Maybe the best solution is to do the first unfold in the phone and let the DAC just work on 24/96. I don't expect "perfect" sound from the phone anyway. For that matter, I'm mostly on the NYC subway when I use it for music, not exactly a relaxing, quiet environment. I get looks from people when I have it plugged in with that green glowing dragonfly.

 

RE: About those Dragonfly DACs..., posted on April 6, 2017 at 14:49:21
creativepart
Audiophile

Posts: 1898
Location: Spring Branch, Texas
Joined: March 1, 2004
 TIDAL's MQA "Masters" files work on Desktop only at this time. So, you can't play TIDAL Masters on your iPhone at this time.

 

RE: About those Dragonfly DACs..., posted on April 6, 2017 at 15:05:02
creativepart
Audiophile

Posts: 1898
Location: Spring Branch, Texas
Joined: March 1, 2004
 A DAC can be a MQA "decoder" or a MQA "renderer."

When a DAC is a decoder it takes the basic file and decodes the MQA info. And in some cases can do multiple unfolds of the buried data to make even higher rez playback - not just 96 but 176.4 or 192.

When a DAC is a Renderer all it can do is take a file that is already unfolded on the computer (presumably in an App such as TIDAL 3.0.x) and process the unfolded info.

The Meridian Exp2 is a decoder while the Audioquest DragonFly (once updated) is a renderer.

When you setup TIDAL to recognize your DAC it recognizes the Meridian as a Decoder and sends an "bit perfect" copy of the file to the DAC for decoding. But if it detects a DAC that is a Renderer it will unfold the file and send the unfolded file to the DAC. At least, that's the story that TIDAL is telling us users.

 

RE: About those Dragonfly DACs..., posted on April 6, 2017 at 18:09:20
Isaak J. Garvey
Industry Professional

Posts: 1207
Location: Hollywod, CA
Joined: January 7, 2016
 I really think you have it mixed up.

When the the file is "unfolded" in the software, ANY DAC will receive and play that file. That is the WHOLE selling point of software decoding, it is NOT dependent on hardware. According to Meridian, cough cough, when the DAC can decode it is a more "complete" solution. Surprise, surprise.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

RE: About those Dragonfly DACs..., posted on April 6, 2017 at 18:12:51
Isaak J. Garvey
Industry Professional

Posts: 1207
Location: Hollywod, CA
Joined: January 7, 2016
 Here, according to Robert "Fan Boy" Harley, it is clear as day:


MQA's Unexpected Twist
by Robert Harley | Jan 12th, 2017

The announcement on January 5 that Tidal would begin streaming MQA files (and suggestions that many other streaming services would soon follow suit) was accompanied by an unexpected twist—that MQA decoding can be performed in music-player software rather than exclusively in an MQA-compliant DAC.

That is, you can listen to decoded MQA with your existing DAC.

MQA had previously asserted that MQA decoding would take place only in MQA-equipped DACs. Although technically possible to perform MQA decoding in music-player software such as Tidal, Roon, Audirvana, etc., MQA prohibited that scenario in part because software decoding doesn't deliver the full sound quality that MQA is capable of. MQA is an end-to-end system that ties together the analog-to-digital converter in the studio with the digital-to-analog converter in the listener's playback system. Software decoding, in which the "unwrapped" MQA file is output as a 96kHz/24-bit stream, doesn't allow this end-to-end connection because the software player doesn't know what DAC it is driving. The full implementation of MQA (decoding in a DAC rather than in software) offers better performance because it can correct for known limitations and flaws in the particular DAC chip, among other benefits.

--------------------------------

Convenient how they changed the story? Why? DAC manufacturers were telling them to go take a hike.


 

RE: About those Dragonfly DACs..., posted on April 6, 2017 at 18:59:38
creativepart
Audiophile

Posts: 1898
Location: Spring Branch, Texas
Joined: March 1, 2004
 According to my Audirvana 3.0X desktop software, when a decoder DAC is recognized - my Meridian Exp2 is recognized automatically - only the bit perfect file, not one software unfolded, is delivered to the DAC.

There also seems to be DACs that are not full decoders but can "render" a higher resolution from a software unfolded file. And lastly there are also those that receive some but not as much enhancement from a software unfolded file because their DAC is neither a decoder nor a renderer.

That's how I read the description anyway.

But it seems many believe the whole thing is a lie. Not just a lie but a damned lie.

It has not gone unnoticed that some of the people that are more vehement in their opinion of the whole thing are also people selling either DACs or High Rez files for download. Who can blame them. MQA is getting more attention and traction than you'd expect from such a false product.

Add to that a great many that have never heard a decoded MQA file - EVER - but nonetheless know it's a lie and a fake.

I'm going to try to be open minded about it. I have it. I like it. I works for me. Other than that I have no skin in this game.

 

RE: About those Dragonfly DACs..., posted on April 6, 2017 at 19:13:36
Isaak J. Garvey
Industry Professional

Posts: 1207
Location: Hollywod, CA
Joined: January 7, 2016
 Ok, your points are noted.

I do believe, you are looking at things through rose colored glasses.

 

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