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(Long) Hello From Brooklyn, Part 1

98.14.227.236
Posted on September 14, 2021 at 17:54:12
paul6001
Audiophile

Posts: 8
Location: New York
Joined: July 4, 2021
 When I say "Long," don't underestimate me.

My name is Paul. By way of background, I've been listening seriously to music for many years, saw The Clash at The Brixton Academy back in the 1980s, and owned a few systems of a decidedly unserious nature. These systems rested comfortably at the very bottom of the high end.

Over the last year, starting with the purchase of a used pair of KEF LS50s, I've caught a bad case of the addiction. I blame it all on those speakers. They gave me a taste of what was possible. So I have worked hard, asked a lot of questions, and developed a full-blown case of audiophilia. I have also stepped up my lo-fi system to to one that many would dismiss as mid-fi but leaves my mouth agape at the quality of the sound.

It may be worth a brief aside to note that me and my gang should be making up a prime market for audio companies. We're music fans in ourr 40s and early 50s who have finally have a few bucks set aside to buy things like stereo gear. But virtually no one in my demographic owns anything other than an iPhone. I have my own theories about the cause of this phenomenon, but any way you slice it, it doesn't spell good things for the audio industry.

Back to me: As I grew into my new mid-fi life, questions came up here and there. I turned to the only forum I'd ever heard of-Audiogon. (I hope the following few paragraphs don't violate any anti-flame rules. I'm writing about my personal experiences and feelings.) I became an infrequent contributor. Until today, it was essentially the only forum I've ever read.

But as of today I'm making an unofficial break with Audiogon and switching to AA. The fact that the people who run AA refer to the members as "inmates" shows a sense of humor utterly foreign to Audiogon. More importantly, perhaps, I can already anticipate the abuse the Audiogoners would give me for this post and hope that I don't get the same here.

Maybe, to an extent, I ask for it. I ask thought-provoking questions. Others might call them skeptical or rabble rousing. But whatever I was doing, I think that I violated two undeniable forms of Audiogon groupthink. The first is a healthy dose of snobbery. The second is a lack of tolerance for anything that challenges the accepted wisdom.

My system doesn't come close to meeting Audiogon standards. For instance, last spring I needed an integrated amp. A used, low cost integrated amp. I had my eyes on an Arcam. Does anyone have any experience with the FMJ A19, I asked? No, no, we're above that sort of thing. How about How about D'Agostino, Boulder, or CH Precision?

My most vivid Audiogon memory was when I asked a basic science question, a question I still don't fully understand. (Nor do a lot of scientists.) Digital audio is ones and zeros. It should always sound the same. But it doesn't. I have a low cost NAD CD player and it doesn't sound as good as fancier models. But it should.

To anyone with a little curiosity, it seems to me, this is an interesting question. And "jitter" doesn't strike me as a persuasive answer. Anyway, I I asked about this.

They tore me to shreds. The attack was sustained, on and on, post after post. Eventually, some of the members felt sorry for me. "Don't take it personally, Paul." And, "You'll get used to it, Paul. You'll learn to fit in."

You know what? I didn't want to get used to it. I didn't want to fit in.

 

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Welcome to the Asylum Paul, glad to have you on board., posted on September 14, 2021 at 18:10:15
viridian
 The A19 is a fine amp and can serve as the center of a system that honors the music, IMHO.

A couple of things that get past folks is that there is still an analog section in CD players and DACs. Analog sections all sound different and are the slaves of the power supply, which are also quite different. If you could listen to 1s and 0s in their native state this probably would not be an issue but, once converted back to analog, they must still be amplified.

That's not even getting into the bandwidth and noise floor of the digital representation, and reconstruction, of the signal itself. This is a hideously, or gloriously, depending on viewpoint, complex process. Nothing really simple about it as with most things audio. All the more reason to embrace tape and vinyl replay as well, LOL.

And please feel free to disagree. Judgement free zone..

 

Very short hello back, part 1 of 1, posted on September 14, 2021 at 20:12:13
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 7724
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
 Hi from BC.
Enjoy the site.

 

Welcome - No Sleep Till Brooklyn, posted on September 15, 2021 at 00:03:43
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5576
Joined: November 15, 2016
 May you find much friendship and affirmation here.








View YouTube Video

 

RE: Welcome to the Asylum Paul, glad to have you on board., posted on September 15, 2021 at 09:11:26
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Or all the more reason to learn how to improve "digital" sound.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: (Long) Hello From Brooklyn, Part 1, posted on September 15, 2021 at 12:59:59
voolston
Audiophile

Posts: 3330
Location: New Orleans
Joined: October 14, 1999
 Welcome aboard. As mentioned, differences in the analog output sections, power supplies, chassis damping, and cabling could account for the differences. With streaming, you have potential noise from the computer/server to factor in as well. So I wouldn't be too quick to say that they should all sound the same despite starting off as ones and zeros.

voolston - audiophile by day, music lover by night!

 

RE: Welcome - No Sleep Till Brooklyn, posted on September 15, 2021 at 16:47:01
paul6001
Audiophile

Posts: 8
Location: New York
Joined: July 4, 2021
 A reply that warms my heart.

I used to coach my kids little league basketball team. Mike D. was one of the other coaches. During the draft, we were all milling around, introducing ourselves. "Hi, my name is Paul." "Hi, my name is... " "I know who you are, Mike." But he was hard to pick out. He was the picture os a stereotypical middle class father."

 

Nah, you need to stay in Central. nt, posted on September 15, 2021 at 17:41:40
viridian
 Nt

 

RE: (Long) Hello From Brooklyn, Part 1, posted on September 15, 2021 at 23:29:37
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15518
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Welcome! Paul

 

We all started somewhere, posted on September 16, 2021 at 12:24:55
Ozzie
Audiophile

Posts: 3814
Joined: August 1, 2002
 For me, starting out it was lowly Radio Shack stuff back in the mid 70s, as that was all I could afford at the time. You're at a good age since as us old codgers go to that big high end emporium in the sky our equipment will be sold by family members dirt cheap. Most of us here are 55 on up,mostly on up, so you get the drift. Click on the commenter's names and in many cases you can view what they have in their rigs.

 

Digital Audio is not ones and zeroes...., posted on September 17, 2021 at 07:09:05
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000



In the Sony/Phillips S/PDIF--Digital-Audio-Compact-Disc system, ANALOG voltages travel through equipment that had its origin in 1960-1970 ANALOG professional color television hardware. That's why the CD sampling rate is 44.1kHz--to work both in PAL color TV recording and playback hardware, and NTSC units. The analog voltages are carried over 75Ohm coaxial cables with BNC terminations--just like 1960s-1970s color TV broadcast gear.

When you connect a CD transport to a DAC using a digital cable, the signal originates in the laser read system which is based on a photocell detector which outputs a (wait for it) ANALOG voltage.

All those analog voltages are DEEMED to REPRESENT theoretical, Platonic-ideal "digital" data.

There are two legacies from the color TV origins of practical digital audio technology. The first one is that there is no separate time code. The time code is secretly embedded in the music data stream--it must be "recovered." The second one is that anything that changes the shape of the analog waveform making up on bit of data, risks displacing the zero-crossing point, which is what the time code is inferred from.

Professional audio engineers with extensive credit lists tell me that they can hear differences among Compact Flash cards on CF-based recorders such as the Sound Devices 702.

I have demonstrated at dog-and-pony shows at audio dealers the fact that making a CD out of a different kind of plastic, or making the metal layer gold, or even (Brace Yourself, Bridget) how the label on the CD is PRINTED, will make a difference.

The amazing thing about CDs, given the system's origin in 1960s 1970s color TV broadcast gear, is that they work... at all.

jm

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-matic

 

Good post. Thanks. **, posted on September 18, 2021 at 05:28:17
MaxwellP
Audiophile

Posts: 1622
Location: New York
Joined: September 19, 2007
 Nt

 

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