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Listening to recordings - does it "condition" our brains?

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Posted on July 23, 2021 at 17:36:56
John C. - Aussie
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 Those of you who go to live concerts, be they jazz, classical or whatever, have a reference for comparison but those of us who only listen to our home systems might be predjudicing our brains as to what is judged accepable and what is not. All very subjective.

What has inspired this line of thought is a recent experiece listening to a pair of well reviewd Beyerdynamic Amicron headphones for a friend. Yes, as reviewed they were super comfortable and reproduced imptressive bass, but that is where my enthusiasm stopped as the rest of the frequency range sounded flat and uninvolving compared to what I previously heard via the Sennheiser HD800S and Focal Utopia units here. And they were very inefficient requiring much more grunt than my usual cans.

So what is going on? Was there a system mismatch using the Audio-gd Master 9 amp? Or has my brain been conditioned to a certain sound so some alternatives are unacceptable? Or is it merely a case that the Amicrons are indeed great units and compare well with others in that price range but it is unsurprising they really are not genuine hi-end items?

I've often thought that upgrades are inspired by boredom so a different sound signature appeals but it most likely is a step sideways rather than forward. But then one audiophile can passionately reject the sound of the music from one system that someone else loves. There is no "right" or "wrong" in all this just as there is no one absolute sound.

So I do think we become "conditioned" to preferring a certain sound signature that might not be acceptable to others,

All of which underlines how stupid are disagreements on what sounds "good" or "bad" as it is all so subjective and clouded with personal bias. So my bias ended up not liking the Amicrons but that does not mean others will not like them.

What can be more subjective than music? It reflects our personal tastes and preferences.

 

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RE: Listening to recordings - does it "condition" our brains?, posted on July 23, 2021 at 17:58:15
Kal Rubinson
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 I think the more fundamental issue should be expressed as "Listening to headphones - does it 'condition' our brains?"

Headphone listening (without the use of binaural recordings or reference to live performances) exposes the listener to a distorted spatial presentation of the performance.

 

RE: Listening to recordings - does it "condition" our brains?, posted on July 23, 2021 at 18:03:26
rivervalley817
 'listening to a pair of well reviewd Beyerdynamic Amicron headphones for a friend'

these were auditioned in your 'usual' system? everything was the same except the cans?

if so, I'll venture a guess that your system has a synergy with your chosen transducers that you're used to along with the Amicron possibly not being broken in yet [?] some gear takes a bit longer than other lines

I think your headsets probably are better, and of course you've established a baseline expectation of what the presentation should sound like

your observations are certainly valid

regards,

 

Although I do listen through headphones myself occasionally. . . , posted on July 23, 2021 at 18:27:46
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . I also think there is something to what you (and Kal) say. Of course, for me (and probably for Kal, although I know he reviewed some "MCh" headphones), stereo itself often seems "flat" relative to MCh - a definite disadvantage for headphones (or even ear speakers!).

 

But then do not ALL recordings present a distorted (compared to the original) sound?, posted on July 23, 2021 at 19:36:10
John C. - Aussie
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 The multi mics, mixers etc used to highlight certain instruments do fundamentally alter the sound in recordings so it is different to what one would experience in a certain seating position anyway (and that experience would be different in another listening position).

You make a valid point in the suggestion that headphones fundamentally alter how we hear the music. The impact is completely different, particularly with organ and orchestral music that benefits from spacial projection.

But I still wish to make the point that whether is be via speakers or headphones, we do become accustomed to a certain sound signature which involves emotional reaction beside the usual ones to distortion, balance or what we have become accustomed (conditioned?) to regards favourably. Examples are those who look for "vinyl" sound, "tube" sound etc and I'll duck out of any attempt to define what those terms mean.

Bottom line is that it really does not matter. Any one individual can seek the sound signature of their choice and being "conditioned" to prefer that is irrelevant if it helps the person to enjoy the music more.

What can be more subjective than music? It reflects our personal tastes and preferences.

 

The "Live Reference" is a Big Deal.........., posted on July 23, 2021 at 20:05:51
Todd Krieger
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 Those of you who go to live concerts, be they jazz, classical or whatever, have a reference for comparison but those of us who only listen to our home systems might be predjudicing our brains as to what is judged accepable and what is not. All very subjective.

This was a subject that I touched on quite a few times..... I think the "live reference" is a big deal, in regard to evaluating sound of an audio system.

What has inspired this line of thought is a recent experiece listening to a pair of well reviewd Beyerdynamic Amicron headphones for a friend. Yes, as reviewed they were super comfortable and reproduced imptressive bass, but that is where my enthusiasm stopped as the rest of the frequency range sounded flat and uninvolving compared to what I previously heard via the Sennheiser HD800S and Focal Utopia units here. And they were very inefficient requiring much more grunt than my usual cans.

I've noticed reviews in recent time are often broken down into "bass", "mids", and "highs"...... What often happens is the overall "presentation" gets lost in the frequency ranges, which also vary from reviewer to reviewer......

So what is going on? Was there a system mismatch using the Audio-gd Master 9 amp? Or has my brain been conditioned to a certain sound so some alternatives are unacceptable? Or is it merely a case that the Amicrons are indeed great units and compare well with others in that price range but it is unsurprising they really are not genuine hi-end items?

I think it's a combination of the three items..... Especially with system matching..... And then "sound bias"..... I do rotate amplifiers in my system, and often, when I return to an amplifier that I thought did really well when I took it out of the rotation, I listen to it again, and think "What happened, it now doesn't sound right at all...... " .......

This is why I again mention the "live reference"..... It resets the "sound bias"..... Not to mention giving the listener the harsh reality in regard to sound from his/her system not being close to that of the real thing.

I've often thought that upgrades are inspired by boredom so a different sound signature appeals but it most likely is a step sideways rather than forward. But then one audiophile can passionately reject the sound of the music from one system that someone else loves. There is no "right" or "wrong" in all this just as there is no one absolute sound.

Very true..... This is why disagreement over sound or music should be acknowledged, if not accepted.

So I do think we become "conditioned" to preferring a certain sound signature that might not be acceptable to others,

Maybe the biggest example of this was the legendary Cleveland Orchestra conductor George Szell..... The "poor sound" of many of his recording is often blamed on what Szell wanted to hear on the recordings, during the mastering process........ (And also the setup of his audio system, which has been documented as "sub-optimal".) It suited him great, but not so much with a lot of consumers and audiophiles.

All of which underlines how stupid are disagreements on what sounds "good" or "bad" as it is all so subjective and clouded with personal bias. So my bias ended up not liking the Amicrons but that does not mean others will not like them.

Bingo....

The Infinity IRS VI video just linked here, the first guy in the video happens to love Bose 901 speakers..... No joke..... People often listen for different things, and different products appeal to different people. Vive la difference.......

What can be more subjective than music? It reflects our personal tastes and preferences.

Not only do people have certain biases in regard to gear, they also have biases in regard to recordings...... For example, I despise Auto-Tune, and I might strongly disagree with someone who likes it, but I will never question his/her tastes because he/she likes it.

 

The live reference means nothing., posted on July 23, 2021 at 20:46:06
viridian
 And I say that pre-covid having gone to 20-30 concerts per year for the last 40, or so years, classical, jazz and rock. If you don't go to concerts what is acceptable is what you like. It is no more complicated than that. But the same holds true if you do go to concerts.

All audio systems are riddled with distortion. We pick the distortion spectra that we, personally, find most consonant with the fabric of the music. There is very little connection between the live music experience and home audio reproduction, IMHO. How could there be, one is dependent on a visual component and the other completely lacks it? Buy what you like and like what you buy.

 

RE: The live reference means nothing., posted on July 23, 2021 at 22:37:18
Todd Krieger
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 When I refer to the "live reference," I refer to primarily learning the sonic characteristics of live music..... It is not necessarily trying to re-create the event...... The key is capturing enough of it.... Which in reality could be only five to ten percent at best...... But it's to help the listener better know what to listen for, when evaluating audio gear.

 

RE: Listening to recordings - does it "condition" our brains?, posted on July 24, 2021 at 03:36:47
PAR
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 " . Yes, as reviewed they were super comfortable and reproduced imptressive bass, but that is where my enthusiasm stopped as the rest of the frequency range sounded flat and uninvolving compared to what I previously heard via the Sennheiser HD800S "

That is roughly what I heard too when I auditioned Amiron Home.

John, I know you through these forums as a classical music listener. Classical Music and headphones can be a a difficult mix to combine successfully. The majority of headphones are designed to please the majority of listeners and these are not classical music fans. A comparatively neutral headphone frequency response (such as with our Sennheiser HD800S) will sound bland to that great majority, lacking e.g. head banging bass and emphasised detail. So most modern headphones are deliberately given a response that helps to meet that market's expectations ( I suspect Amiron is in that category). So typical is that form of frequency response that it has even been given a name. It is called the "smile" response ; emphasised bass/midbass, suppressed midrange and elevated treble.

So I think that you just heard what you heard. If you were a 25 year old clubber settling down to an evening of dance beats or other modern pop music then you may well have liked them better.

"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams

 

RE: Listening to performances, posted on July 24, 2021 at 04:51:05
tketcham
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 Hi, John,
I agree with you that personal preferences for the sound signature of a stereo system are tempered by our own listening experiences. But it's not limited to those who only listen to stereo systems. I can think of many venues for music, both live and amplified, that might bias an audiophiles perception of how a stereo system should convey music. That is, some of those venues were acoustically pretty bad and if someone routinely listened to music at those venues their idea of what live music should sound like (as a reference) could be affected. And, the emotional attachment to the music and performance might instill an even stronger bias. Maybe that's what happens when an audiophile likes the gear just a little too much. :-)

Tom

 

RE: Listening to recordings - does it "condition" our brains?, posted on July 24, 2021 at 05:19:05
b.l.zeebub
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 Headphones are very personal due to the quite heavy eq function of our pinnae so the trick is to find the manufacturer whose ear model most closely resembles your outer ear.

This also means that a flat measured response is only desirable for headphones if you are listening to artificial head recordings.

Headphones also come in a range of more or less standard impedances.
My own for example are available in 32, 80 or 250Ω while being otherwise identical. Which one you need depends on the amp driving them.

 

seeking the absolute sound, posted on July 24, 2021 at 05:32:36
Story
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 ever since that mag many read it only to find out that the next month there was something better and the thing you bought was now #2. Been there done that because anyone doing it LOVES MUSIC whatever the flavor.

I used to like driving to Fla and taking back roads that show up as tiny, thin lines on a map. Then I got married. The wife likes going straight down with many bathroom trips. What to do?, compromise. Repro is a journey that never ends and journeys are said to be better than the destination. I agree and am quite happy with what I have and wouldn't give it up for anything (Quad 57's)

It's called the A. Asylum because the obsessed are a bit crazy about the whole trip. Most here put $$ in the music and sit back.



 

I respect your differing opinion., posted on July 24, 2021 at 07:10:12
viridian
 I believe the listener need no nothing about music and only needs to viscerally like the system. I am sure there is room in the hobby for the differing viewpoints.

 

But do ALL recordings present a consistent distorted sound?, posted on July 24, 2021 at 07:52:32
Kal Rubinson
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 You discuss all sorts of manipulations (and "distortions") which can be applied but almost all are dazzlingly variable. The presentation of a stereo source is already a consistent transform of live sound but to funnel it via a pair of headphones is an even more disturbing "distortion." IMHO, of course.

 

"Live" concerts are more questionable as a measure, posted on July 24, 2021 at 09:42:40
M3 lover
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 since so many of them are now "electronically enhanced". It doesn't matter if it is a concert hall, a small club, a school auditorium, or a stadium venue, nearly all that I find include an array of mics on the stage.

I happen to agree that the sonic presentation directly from voices and instruments can be helpful in judging audio components. I've relied on that for years. But for more than 20 years it has become increasingly difficult to find unamplified, acoustic performances. And even then we are at the mercy of the acoustic properties of the given venue.

To be clear, I'm not talking about a total musical presentation. Soundstage width and depth, instrumental placement, subways running underneath the recording space, etc. are not considered. Rather it is the unaltered tonality of the voices and instruments, the nuance of dynamics, and a difficult to describe "feel" of the performance I'm looking for.

Back to the OP, I've never been comfortable enough with headphones to have much experience there so I can't comment on that.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

Recorded sound CAN be better than live sound, in the sense that. . . , posted on July 24, 2021 at 09:43:33
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . the microphones (and I'm assuming minimal microphones) can be placed in a more ideal location than any seat in which audience members sit (certainly compared to the seats I sit in most of the time!). Live performances can be OK from the sonic point of view, but my own personal view is that "live" is not always all it's cracked up to be, even though you're correct that, at the same time, "live" does constitute an absolute reference for recorded sound.

 

Zellerbach Hall in Berkeley - a perfect example of what you're talking about, posted on July 24, 2021 at 09:54:51
Chris from Lafayette
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 With its "Constellation" system. That's certainly no absolute sound!

 

RE: "Live" concerts are more questionable as a measure, posted on July 24, 2021 at 10:10:30
E-Stat
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 It doesn't matter if it is a concert hall, a small club, a school auditorium, or a stadium venue, nearly all that I find include an array of mics on the stage.

For classical venues, they are used for recording - not sound reinforcement.

 

RE: Listening to recordings - does it "condition" our brains?, posted on July 24, 2021 at 10:16:06
E-Stat
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 Those of you who go to live concerts, be they jazz, classical or whatever, have a reference for comparison but those of us who only listen to our home systems might be predjudicing our brains as to what is judged accepable and what is not. All very subjective.

There is a live, unamplified reference for us to observe. That has always been my goal to achieve with my music systems. Luckily, I can get regular doses with wifey playing her baby grand in the living room.

As to your preferences, they can be whatever you choose. While I also enjoy pop music, the very last thing I want to do is reproduce the dreadful sound quality experienced at those *live* concerts.

I listen to IEMs when I travel or do yard work, but am not a fan of "cans" for regular listening. You once had a pretty grand system with Sound Lab electrostats. What happened?

 

Well, except for, posted on July 24, 2021 at 11:46:50
M3 lover
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 the playback speakers I see at the wings of the stage, or elsewhere in the hall. And more importantly when I HEAR them!

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

Fortunately, posted on July 24, 2021 at 12:45:16
E-Stat
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 I've never been subjected to a sound reinforced symphony hall.

Maybe you're going to the wrong places. :)

 

Most of the concerts I've been to had lousy sound., posted on July 24, 2021 at 14:32:38
ghost of olddude55
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 Sometimes, it's the hall acoustics, but most of the time it's because the bands I like really can't play or sing very well. They need the studio, need to be able to re-record a vocal line or a guitar fill. I generally avoid live albums for that reason, though many of them have been doctored in a studio.
Jazz is different, maybe since it's acoustic? I don't know, but I've got some live jazz albums that I really treasure is what I'm saying. Rock and roll, different story.




The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

Not mine, posted on July 24, 2021 at 14:47:59
Goober58
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 Best live experience I can get at home is from a concert recording download on the internet. But it's never as good a being there.

That said listening to a studio recording at home often "sounds better" than live or a good live concert recording. Though I often feel like enjoying the live recording.

One can choose an absolute sound if they want. Makes sense to me if one wants to listen to recordings of well recorded live unamplified music that they bias their systems around that kind of sound so it'll sound best with those kinds of recordings. No different than if one only wants to listen to Led Zeppelin records they build and upgrade their system using Led Zeppelin records as references. So an absolute sound is there for anyone who wants one.

As to the other point about the headphones. Though you suggest the Beyerdynamic headphones are not a "genuine hi-end item" doesn't mean they won't work any better than your preferences in someone else's system. You may be totally correct, however in a lesser system your choices may be too revealing and in a better one the Amicron may have some strength(s) in better alignment with the system that just happens to resonate with that owners preferences. Contrary to the spending more is always better fallacy, because of that kind of synergy, horizontal and maybe even downward moves could be considered for those seeking to get better without spending more.

Thanks again for posting.

 

This begs the question - are all sound distortions bad?, posted on July 24, 2021 at 15:20:43
John C. - Aussie
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 Here we strongly associate "distortion" with as number reflecting how good or bad a piece of electronics is.

But there are many types of distortion, the most obvious being that caused by room/hall acoustics. And that distortion means the sound heard in one seating position will not be duplicated in another.

And electronics does introduce distortions which might or not be judged deleterious, but do alter the resultant perceived sound of the music. Not all distortions are bad but the purists among us try to avoid them as much as possible.

On the headphone front there are often valid reasons for their adoption and I'll expand on this in another post later.

What can be more subjective than music? It reflects our personal tastes and preferences.

 

RE: Most of the concerts I've been to had lousy sound., posted on July 24, 2021 at 19:57:14
sleeper
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 I agree. I have been to numerous concerts where the sound from my audio rig has been far superior.

 

RE: "Live" concerts are more questionable as a measure, posted on July 25, 2021 at 02:22:31
Todd Krieger
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 "For classical venues, they are used for recording - not sound reinforcement."

Depends on the venue..... I've experienced both cases......

The really good halls don't use it, but I've been to several places where it has been used.

 

Not just the sound but the performances, too., posted on July 25, 2021 at 04:38:56
ghost of olddude55
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 The acts I've seen--most of the them--seemed to be going through the motions. They've done the same set list in 50 other cities before they got to Pittsburgh.
And they need to studio to nail the performance.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: Listening to recordings - does it "condition" our brains?, posted on July 25, 2021 at 05:08:48
kyle
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 I'm just glad that reviewers, for the most part, have stopped saying that a piece of equipment or system makes recordings sound like real music. I fell into that trap years ago and constantly had the feeling that my system wasn't up to the challenge. I went to a lot of live performances ranging from small jazz clubs to classical and chamber groups to rock concerts and was never able to capture that sound at home regardless of the dollars spent or the huge number of new pieces I dropped into my system.
Happily, I finally realized that there are no systems that can reproduce live music in your home in an authentic manner. This was a major turning point and led to a more relaxed listening experience and a much higher enjoyment level.
Take the internal doubt out of the equation and enjoy both live and recorded music more.

 

"The really good halls don't use it", posted on July 25, 2021 at 06:05:46
E-Stat
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 This is what I'm saying. Avoid the others.

 

RE: Real music. +1 /nm/, posted on July 25, 2021 at 06:31:50
tketcham
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 Tom

 

Are all sound distortions bad? , posted on July 25, 2021 at 06:39:47
Kal Rubinson
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 IMHO, yes but some are more/less bad than others. Some are pleasing to some people (............and that's OK).

As for distortion, I was using that in a general non-electronic sense, such as when someone restates and distorts the meaning of your own statements.

"On the headphone front there are often valid reasons for their adoption...." I will grant you that!

 

yea, classical orchs rehearse until the conductor is happy, posted on July 25, 2021 at 06:48:43
Story
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 some get really pissed off if not. Rockers mostly drink, smoke, and joke frequently ending up jamming, blues guys also. Jazzers have plenty of improve space and have a bit more enjoyment.

I've played in many different types of bands and orchestras and the goal is always what's frequently called in the circles - 'tight'. You don't get that way unless you always 'pay attention' and you can't do that if you're looking at eye candy. Lots of players close their eyes or look away at the ceiling but you can't do that in Classical





 

yes, posted on July 25, 2021 at 08:07:53
Story
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 I remember when Mark from Melos came back from a trip to Sea Cliff. I asked him how the legendary system sounded. He said it he could hear why it could be considered a reference but a solo Cello he heard sounded "too big" in size.

Things have not changed much and it's best to be happy with a good system instead a bitter cranky old guy who doesn't know how to be. And keep the volume reasonable to limit hearing damage. Like Mr. T said "I'm predicting PAIN"



 

Don't some bands bring highly skilled musicians in for the recording?, posted on July 25, 2021 at 12:17:16
Goober58
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 The band tours - expert musicians bolster the studio work. The Beach Boys and CCR come to mind.

 

RE: Don't some bands bring highly skilled musicians in for the recording?, posted on July 25, 2021 at 12:49:53
rivervalley817
 'expert musicians bolster the studio work'

like every Steely Dan title ever?

Bob Seeger's first label forced him into that formulae

he ditched them, went back to his Silver Bullet Band and put out a live record

that's when he charted and his music has been relevant ever since

despite being overplayed

with regards,

 

Yup, in fact you mentioned the Beach Boys..., posted on July 26, 2021 at 04:44:39
ghost of olddude55
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 We listened to their vocals but the instruments were provided by Hal Blaine & Co.
Friend of mine never had a decent stereo but he did go to hundreds of concerts in his life. That's his frame of reference. I ripped a lot of his albums to CD for him and so many of them were double-live LPs. I think they're excruciating to listen to. For one thing, they're all the same, even the patter between songs. They also sound pretty bad, the versions of the songs are mostly inferior to the versions on the studio LPs...they existed mostly as contractual obligations. But he loves them because they remind him of the shows he's seen.
This doesn't apply to all live albums. I've got a few I think are pretty good. Live jazz albums are great.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

Hult Center in Eugene, OR. Another example. (nt), posted on July 26, 2021 at 11:45:35
Brian H P
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 nt

 

RE: Yup, in fact you mentioned the Beach Boys..., posted on July 26, 2021 at 14:59:47
Goober58
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 I saw Lucinda Williams and World Party, two bands I was familiar with and own most of their LPs, at the Crescent Ballroom in Phoenix. It's not a great venue and it sometimes it can be pretty bad. They can shove something 600 people into that place, it was near empty for World Party, and close to capacity if not capacity for Lucinda Williams. I think the crews did awesome jobs of setting up for these 2 show as the sound from my seat was perfect and there is no comparison to listening to a record at home. I've seen more than 50 shows at the Crescent and usually the sound isn't so good. Saw the Hot Snakes, Drive By Truckers and the Jayhawks in that same venue - enjoyed them more than possible at home. Sleater-Kinney is another band I've seen more than once and who makes decent sounding records who will almost always be better live. But this last stuff is different than SQ, it's more a live thing, which conceivably they could do on a good live record but rarely if ever do with rock music. Best way for me to get that at home is with live downloads from places like the Internet Archives.

When I was combining back into one system I sold my Spendor SP-100s and kept the Living Voice Avatars in spite of the fact the Spendors could be stunning with many good recordings of live music (amplified & unamplified). Unfortunately could muster mediocrity when it came to certain kinds of studio work (Pink Floyd & Alan Parsons obvious examples) and because of that it was influencing record buying(listening) decisions in a direction I didn't want to go.

Lots of nuances in this conversation.

 

RE: Don't some bands bring highly skilled musicians in for the recording?, posted on July 26, 2021 at 18:02:19
Goober58
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 Most popular bands were overplayed. That's how they became popular.

 

RE: Don't some bands bring highly skilled musicians in for the recording?, posted on July 26, 2021 at 18:27:15
rivervalley817
 that actually explains a lot about AOR

 

No different than the top 10 AM stations I was into until 72 or so, posted on July 26, 2021 at 19:15:53
Goober58
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 For sure I missed the glory days of FM.

 

RE: No different than the top 10 AM stations I was into until 72 or so, posted on July 26, 2021 at 19:27:03
rivervalley817
 there were a lot more regional acts, studios, and stations back then though

so I'd say at least that was different

but yeah, once a tune charted the play rotation was merciless

 

Close-miked recordings reveal "details" you NEVER hear in a live performance, posted on July 27, 2021 at 13:04:46
Brian H P
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Joined: December 18, 2012
 All sorts of extraneous noises. The spit bubbling in a saxophone's mouthpiece. A singer's breath and lip smacking. The overblown breath on a flute. Finger squeaks on strings. The mechanism rattling in a harpsichord. Pages turning. Chairs creaking. Sheet music pages turning.

OTOH, only a really BIG powerful system can even hint at the scope and majesty of a full orchestra, pipe organ, or large choir. Such music is necessarily miniaturized by recording and playback.

 

Don't shoot the piano-player..., posted on July 28, 2021 at 16:02:40
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31878
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 Save them bullets for the sound man.

Shit sound is usually their territory.

Especially small(er) clubs, where the sound man frequently appears to have been
shot at from close range, but the shooter missed, only causing more permanent
damage to what little hearing the sound man had already lost having been somewhat
deaf many years before the previous ten times he had been shot at.

A continuum indeed.

But it's nice these places hire the disabled.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

I'm not sure how it works, posted on July 30, 2021 at 11:19:07
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5587
Joined: November 15, 2016
 In the smaller venues and maybe the large ones too, it seems the venue has it's own gear and sound people but sometimes the band brings in it's own people and/or gear.

One would think the people running the venue would get the best sound but in the venue I'm most familiar with the best sound is when folks with the band are in control.




 

RE: I'm not sure how it works, posted on July 30, 2021 at 11:49:27
rivervalley817
 the problem being as Musetap pointed to is that 'most' of the fellows running the soundboard in all venues have hearing damage from setting up incorrectly [and their proximity to the drummers cymbals] ... and the crowd will too!

they need a trusted set of ears out in the sound field to give feedback on SPL and particularly, getting the mid-range and highs balanced

you'll see a lot of sound guys try and do it by ear from their position behind the console so the SPL's are set too high and loaded with treble because their hearing has fallen off in those ranges from over exposure

as far as 'tuning' the system to an enclosed venue you would expect better results from familiarity but there's somewhat of a high turnover in those jobs, plus the longer the resume usually the worse their hearing is

just my experience and anecdotal tales from others reflected in the above

with regards,

 

RE: I'm not sure how it works, posted on July 30, 2021 at 18:28:48
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5587
Joined: November 15, 2016
 What I was getting at is that the sound people with the artists know what the artist can and should like. In fact if the artist didn't care I doubt they would come along with the band. But an upstart band on a "world tour" might be staying with friends and relying on the venue for stuff. Who knows?


 

RE: I'm not sure how it works, posted on July 30, 2021 at 18:53:48
rivervalley817
 that's a very good point if the artist even knows and has some control

on stage, they're 'behind' what their performance sounds like in venues

the prevalent use of in-ear monitors colors what they're hearing as well

plus it seems that many of today's performers are just that and not much more

everything else is left to their production team or chance

with chance usually the rule of the day

regards,





 

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