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Ordered some new Schitt...

73.96.56.143
Posted on July 15, 2021 at 01:12:30
Kurtle
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A new member of the Loki tone control family, just announced. I have been happy with the 4 band and hoping for this newer, more flexible unit since the release of the original.

 

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RE: Ordered some new Schitt..., posted on July 15, 2021 at 05:45:26
tketcham
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 Dang, I should have known; I bought a Loki+ a couple of months ago. Oh, well, this new Lokius is what I've been waiting for so here goes...

 

The name brand folks love to use because they think they are, posted on July 15, 2021 at 06:50:59
kff
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 getting away with something. Children, all of us, using that brand name when we write about their gear.

What a great marketing move that was!! Puts their brand name first in repetition by many.

Interesting that the end bands are ±12dB, next are ±9db and the two inside bands are ±6db. Should be versatile enough and give good control.

I remember the Audio Control 520 which has 5 bands, 3 on the bass a mid and a high treble. Designed to clean up the bass response with a 20Hz, 60Hz and 120Hz, using low end boost, lower bass bump removal and final adjustment of the upper bass. Then the vocals and the sizzle. Wonder why the new Lokius didn't do something like that. It was very effective.

Looking forward to your comments about this unit.

 

Lokius? Is that the ancient Roman version? nt, posted on July 15, 2021 at 07:36:01
ghost of olddude55
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 nt



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

So does it make sense to package/offer..., posted on July 15, 2021 at 08:47:49
Charlie8521
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Location: South East Michigan
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 a Freya+ with a Loki in the same enclosure. A FreyaLokie (no interconnects). Hope you love your new piece of equipment.

 

RE: What's in a name?, posted on July 15, 2021 at 08:57:30
tketcham
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 The brand name was a marketing ploy but it fits the company's managing philosophy: Good shit for a good price. Schiit happens (couldn't resist) to be a popular audio brand because they sell gear that fits the needs of thrifty (as compared to "cheap") audiophiles, and there's a lot of us. Schiit Audio gets it.

I've been using a Loki for three years now and would miss having it in my stereo system(s). It works well, especially considering its $150 USD price. But having the additional frequency bands of the Lokius will make things even easier to blend in the subwoofers and to compensate for age-related hearing loss. I occasionally bypass the tone controls to see if the Loki actually makes an improvement vs a change and each time I'm convinced that it is a big improvement. My wife has even commented on how easily she can tell the difference and prefers the Loki in the system.

I'm looking forward to trying out the Lokius since there's enough overlap in the bands provided by the Loki that I have to compromise a bit to get the best sound. I shoot for reducing room-related bass nodes while maintaining a relatively seamless bass response and, to boost the upper-mids and high frequencies while avoiding the glare that starts to appear with too much gain in the 2000Hz and 8000Hz controls. The Lokius, with six tone controls should provide a more elegant way to accomplish the same thing with less compromise in the overall tonal balance.

Tom

 

RE: Deja vu all over again..., posted on July 15, 2021 at 09:00:55
tketcham
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 I suggested that exact thing...



 

RE: The name brand folks love to use because they think they are, posted on July 15, 2021 at 09:36:52
G Squared
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 I had an Audio Control 520 and have a Loki. I wish I could compare.
Gsquared

 

No Frequency Labels??!, posted on July 15, 2021 at 10:13:54
Jon L
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Posts: 6062
Joined: April 6, 2000
 Why on earth would you not label your knobs?
20Hz, 120Hz, 400Hz, 2kHz, 6kHz, 16kHz

 

the world in 2021 needs a family of tone controls, all righty. (nt), posted on July 15, 2021 at 11:52:09
mhardy6647
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 I got nothin'...

all the best,
mrh

 

I am sure it'd spoil the design aesthetic (nt), posted on July 15, 2021 at 11:52:51
mhardy6647
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 I got nothin' here, neither. :-|

all the best,
mrh

 

RE: No Frequency Labels??!, posted on July 15, 2021 at 13:03:43
tketcham
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 Well, if they decide to modify any of the frequency bands they won't have to redo the case. Besides, the icons pretty much show you which portion of the frequency range you're adjusting and the tone controls are best set by ear anyway.

Tom

 

Which tone control would be used for... never mind. :-) /nm/, posted on July 15, 2021 at 13:12:22
tketcham
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 Tom

 

this is actually a really good and cogent reply (response)! (nt), posted on July 15, 2021 at 13:33:41
mhardy6647
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 enn tee

all the best,
mrh

 

First Triumvirate, right? -t, posted on July 15, 2021 at 13:43:49
The Killer Piglet
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 KP

 

So it's a 6-band, fixed center frequencies, graphic EQ , posted on July 15, 2021 at 15:52:17
Brian H P
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 What a novel concept! They had more versatile ones (like my old 16-band Technics) back in the 1970s. Of course, it's a "one size fits none" kinda deal, since none of those center frequencies fall precisely where anyone will actually need them. And you can't EQ the L and R channels separately. And the gain/attenuation is less in the center frequencies than the extremes, also potentially limiting. If someone has room acoustic issues (or inaccurate speakers) severe enough to require EQ, they should be looking for something programmable and parametric.

 

A graphic eq has sliders to graphically display the frequency response. That ain't this. nt, posted on July 15, 2021 at 16:02:53
viridian
 Nt

 

Lokius is the Viking word for long signal path. nt, posted on July 15, 2021 at 16:13:38
viridian
 Nt

 

Chuckle...nt, posted on July 15, 2021 at 16:22:34
MaxwellP
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 Nt

 

You Schiit'in meh ? nt, posted on July 15, 2021 at 16:49:49
Green Lantern
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RE: ... long signal path., posted on July 15, 2021 at 16:51:55
tketcham
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 Yup, it does add wire. I use good 0.5m RCA interconnects between the Loki+ and preamp (in passive mode) and I'd be hard pressed to accurately decide when the Loki is in the signal chain or not. At least in bypass mode. When the Loki is doing what it's intended for, it sounds noticeably better. If someone has a nice clean stereo room (acoustically), without the inherent problems of most rooms then no, the addition of a tone control isn't needed. But I do have a stereo room with warts and I'm getting old to boot. The tiny additional distortion of the signal by having a tone control in the path is secondary to the improvement in overall sound.

Tom

 

RE: So it's a 6-band, fixed center frequencies, graphic EQ , posted on July 15, 2021 at 16:59:29
tketcham
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 I have considered going the digital route since more of my preamp sources are digital rather than analog these days. But the Loki is so easy to use when adjusting the frequency bands a bit (up to 4dB of boost in my setup) to compensate for a less than absolute sounding room. You can sit there and hear the changes as you dial up or down with each control. But it took me months of trial and error before I felt it sounded right. It's not easy blending a signal that's being split up and overlapped. Just takes time and patience.

Tom

 

I agree except for one thing, posted on July 15, 2021 at 18:35:30
Story
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Posts: 10426
Location: NJ
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 ...the part about EQ from whatever the recording is. It doesn't matter what genre music, there are small differences that require a little more here or a tiny bit less there, and sometimes it's worse than that. If every mastering engineer had the same ears and equipment it would be a different story.

I'm glad to hear they added the affordable Lokius to the lineup because although I found the Loki transparent, the bandwidth and turnover frequencies were annoying. 99% of the time it's the 2 extremes that only need a touchup with a good system because of the excellence of most recordings.

A lofty goal the absolute, but nothing is perfect especially rooms. What works for me and my system gives me satisfaction. YMMV of course but the Lokius should give the listener an extremely useful tool for tuning things in a room. They should sell many and I'm putting it on my Christmas list because they'll probably be swamped with orders.



 

Was Pompey the mid-range on Loki?, posted on July 16, 2021 at 03:00:58
ghost of olddude55
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Posts: 32531
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 Lokius gives us some of the Senate. I guess.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

I thought it was just, posted on July 16, 2021 at 06:20:56
E-Stat
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 Stereo gear used by Locutus. ;)

 

All I remember is Caesar provided salads. It's been a while. -t, posted on July 16, 2021 at 07:40:06
The Killer Piglet
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 KP

 

That's true. Twisty knobs vs. sliders. Different look, but functionally identical (nt), posted on July 16, 2021 at 12:34:48
Brian H P
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 nt

 

*like* :) , posted on July 16, 2021 at 13:40:49
mhardy6647
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 or, perhaps, Viking shorthand slang for There's one born every minute.

all the best,
mrh

 

RE: Lokius is the Viking word for long signal path. nt, posted on July 16, 2021 at 14:03:01
stringplay
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 Maybe I missed it in the write-up, but is there remote control option for the adjustments?

 

RE: Old school manual transmission, posted on July 16, 2021 at 14:15:54
tketcham
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 A remote is a nice idea but it would be expensive to add six motorized potentiometers or stepped relays for the controls.

 

RE: ... long signal path., posted on July 16, 2021 at 14:31:12
Mick Wolfe
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 Couldn't agree more. I've DIYed 14"-16" jumpers for use between my Freya+ and Loki. In all cases, terminated with KLEI's of various ilks. Wires used were Mogami 3159, 2549 and Grimm TPR. The Grimm TPR seems to be the winner so far. Bottom line, I can't hear a difference or any deterioration in sound with or without the Loki in the chain. Very uncolored device that doesn't affect the sound unless its tone controls are actively engaged of course.

 

No, it does not just add wire..., posted on July 16, 2021 at 15:52:29
viridian

...It adds resistors, active devices and caps in the signal path. The wire is the least of it. And, of course, that is not to say that it is not completely transparent to your ear, in your system. I am not saying that at all.

 

RE: No, it does not just add wire..., posted on July 16, 2021 at 16:01:09
tketcham
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 True. In bypass mode I tend to think of circuits and solder joints in the same vein as wires. As I said, if I didn't think the tone controls were an improvement I certainly wouldn't bother having them in the signal path.

 

Not really. I defy you to look across the room at this thing and tell me...-, posted on July 16, 2021 at 16:01:18
viridian
 ...-how it is changing the frequency response of the system. Electrically identical perhaps, but functionally identical, IMHO, not.

 

RE: Old school manual transmission, posted on July 16, 2021 at 19:35:47
stringplay
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 I agree, but without remote capability, I'd pass.

 

I thought the triumvirate was Pompey, Caesar, and Waldorf. nt, posted on July 17, 2021 at 03:28:52
ghost of olddude55
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 nt



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

Jason Stoddard's introduction to the Lokius, posted on July 17, 2021 at 04:17:06
tketcham
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 Jason Stoddard posted an introduction to the Lokius at head-fi.org if you're interested.

 

I must have heard a different astoria. -t, posted on July 17, 2021 at 14:02:02
The Killer Piglet
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 KP

 

What? You can't see those itty-bitty dots on those itty-bitty knobs from across the room? (nt), posted on July 19, 2021 at 14:42:26
Brian H P
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 nt

 

RE: The Lokius is in good company., posted on July 21, 2021 at 10:19:10
tketcham
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 I've read on several forums that the frequency bands of the tone controls on the Lokius appear to be similar to the Cello Palette. So Schiit didn't try to rewrite the book, just borrowed from one of the best analog equalizers available. If you can find a used Palette for a reasonable price. I just did an internet search and found one on eBay for $6000. The prices went up fast from there.

I'm not saying the Lokius is in the same league as the Palette, but the Lokius isn't far off the mark if you consider its function and design. I guess you could say we're seeing the benefits of trickle-down technology and materials.

I haven't found a reference to anyone measuring the Lokius' actual frequency curves by band, like Head-fi.org did for the Loki, but I'm thinking someone will do that fairly soon. In the mean time I found a reference to those measurements for the Cello Palette and am using it as a guide for setting up my Lokius.



 

RE: Ordered some new Schitt..., posted on July 22, 2021 at 19:21:44
beach cruiser
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 glad you are enjoying the new stuff. I still remember when tone controls were normal, then people got all snooty and they went away.

I think tone controls distort reality about as much as my refrigerator, the only difference is that nobody champions the reality of spoiled food.

I still remember the days where almost everybody had an equalizer, and they all displayed a "V" shape, boosted highs and lows, whenever they were employed. I don't miss that .

 

RE: Ordered some new Schitt..., posted on July 22, 2021 at 22:47:06
Kurtle
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Well, sorry to report that when I received the product on Monday I opened the box and removed the product, only to find that all of the adjustment knob detents are not centered (see picture), the third from left knob looks centered in the picture but it is also slightly off center.

Okay, stuff happens, I understand, what really matters is how does a company handle an issue when it occurs, right?

I immediately sent off an email with a picture, and due to the fact that as of Monday the ship time for them is now 2-4 weeks I suggested that I insert the unit into my system and use it until they can ship me a correctly assembled unit, and then I would return this defective unit. I quickly received an automated email stating that I would receive a reply quickly (in a "snappy" timeframe to use their vernacular.)

Tuesday comes and goes, crickets. Wednesday comes and goes, crickets. Wednesday evening I fill out their "Help and Support" online form and submit it. Thursday comes and goes, again, crickets.

I have 5 other Schitt products, they have worked well. This is my first time to try and use their support. I am not impressed. I am also concerned that if this low level of care that is so obvious occurred, it makes me wonder about the rest of the units assembly.

I am going to wait until tomorrow to see if I hear anything back and if the suggested resolve is acceptable. If I don't hear back by tomorrow I am going to fill out their Return Authorization form and hope that they get back to me in time so that I can send it back within their 15 day waiting period. I will have to eat the 15% restocking fee, and the shipping both ways, and then I will wash my hands of them. I won't deal with a company that ships a new product that is defective and doesn't respond to an inquiry about the issue for a week.



 

RE: That's unfortunate., posted on July 23, 2021 at 05:41:00
tketcham
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 Hi Kurtle,

My silver Lokius has three detents that are off-centered, two counterclockwise and one clockwise. At first I thought of returning it but figured I can't see the controls from where I sit anyway and as long as the detents indicate true center of the band I'll let it pass. I may open the case and see if it's just a simple lock ring adjustment. Looking at the image of the internals it appears the potentiometers can't be realigned, at least not easily. Otherwise I'm very happy with the new Lokius. A big jump in adjustability and performance from the Loki. Still dialing it in but I found the Lokius to be much easier to fine tune the frequency bands to integrate with subs and compensate for my upper frequency hearing loss.

It's disappointing to see that quality control is suffering a bit. I'd be willing to bet that Schiit Audio is even more disappointed than we are about it. Just means more things for them to deal with in addition to being swamped with orders. It's not surprising that they're also getting behind in email responses. Disappointing though.

Hopefully you get a response and resolution in the near future. I think you'll find it was worth the hassles to have the Lokius in your system.

Tom

 

RE: Ordered some new Schitt..., posted on July 23, 2021 at 12:48:00
Kurtle
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 So I heard back from Schitt this morning, I was told "Sorry, but unfortunately that's a design flaw". Which begs the question, why would you release a product and talk it up when it has an undisclosed inherent "design flaw"?

I have been happy with my other Schitt products, and I know that they sell a bunch of product, but this (and the fact it took them a week to acknowledge my inquiry) rub me the wrong way. The Lokius is going back. I will likely not be doing business with them in the future. Looks like their business model is slipping, releasing products with a design flaw and not acknowledging the fact pre-sale so an informed purchasing decision could be made.

 

RE: Ordered some new Schitt..., posted on July 23, 2021 at 16:57:56
uncle mag
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 Early April I ordered a Loki Mini which I received almost 2 months later. After not hearing anything from them for a few weeks I wrote them asking when I might expect it, they said due to parts delays they have a 6-8 week delivery schedule. It would have been nice to get a note letting me know that.

When I did receive it I noticed the knobs all protrude from the chassis unevenly- 1/16 here, 1/32 there. Just shoddy workmanship.

On the plus side the Loki is extremely transparent and flexible, and when I step back a foot I don't see any issue. I also ordered a pair of their Snake Oil RCA cables and before installing the Loki, replaced the cable from pre to amp, and was very pleased with the new cables.

Thanks for posting their response, it sounds like they are saying "Take it or leave it" on the knob problem.
I kept the Loki cuz it sounds very good, and didn't want to wait for a replacement, but won't be ordering from them again. Hopefully the insides are better than the cosmetics.
Quality control matters.

 

RE: Lokius tone control sweeps, posted on November 1, 2021 at 08:45:22
tketcham
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 For those interested, I made a composite image of the frequency sweep graphs from the Schiit Audio test report for the Lokius Tone Control (see link) and this is what it looks like. I include a mirror image of the gain sweeps as representative of the attenuated frequency sweeps based on how balanced the results were for the Loki Tone Control done by Head-Fi.org. So be aware that the attenuated values shown in the image ARE NOT BASED ON ACTUAL TEST RESULTS.

It appears that the 400Hz tone control actually affects the 500Hz range, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do wish that Schiit Audio (or someone) would publish results for testing and graphing at 1/4 and 1/2 gain/attenuation settings since that's where I think most people will be using the Lokius. Anyway, here's the composite image:



 

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