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Importance of Voltage Regulation

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Posted on January 17, 2021 at 20:25:41
Schlep
Audiophile

Posts: 289
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Joined: April 24, 2007
 Hi all -

Not exactly a tweek question so it landed in the general asylym.

How important is correct and constant voltage to the performance of the electronics in an audio system ?

I am considering a buying a Torus TOT to isolate the electronics from dirty power and have the option of upgrading to a unit which regulates voltage.

thanks

 

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RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 18, 2021 at 05:32:03
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46291
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Have you measured your AC mains? Unless it swings wildly then voltage regulation will not be of much benefit.

In SS gear like amps, the internal DC voltages are regulated where necessary so the amp's power supply can handle a reasonable range of input AC voltage from the mains. The AC mains voltage may have a more noticeable, but not necessarily detrimental effect on tube amps. The bias readings may differ at different AC input voltages.

You don't need a data logger to chart your AC voltage. You can take manual measurements throughout the day with a "true rms" DMM and jot them down on a sheet of paper.

AC Mains data logger:

My AC Mains voltage over night. Pretty solid:
Riding barely above and below 124-VAC. No worries here:

My raw AC mains output voltage vs output from my PS Audio P300:

The P300 gave up the ghost a couple years ago. But is my AC mains voltage something to be concerned with? Not in my case.




 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 18, 2021 at 08:29:51
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13975
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 Properly designed equipment will have properly designed power supplies.
High dollar external power regulators are thus likely unnecessary in most
cases.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 18, 2021 at 09:07:31
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 I have a Torus tot 7amp version which I plug all of my front end stuff into. It was a sonic upgrade in terms of lowering noise in my system. If I had a choice I would get the voltage regulation as I had swings of 6 volts in my house overnight. Cheap insurance

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 18, 2021 at 12:02:39
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7740
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Very important, if you want better sound.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Due to my AC mains..., posted on January 18, 2021 at 14:27:31
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4583
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
 getting as high as 126VAC and as Low as 115VAC I bought a Furman P-1800 AR voltage regulator/ power conditioner for my front end tube gear and SS gear. I didn't want any issues with the tube gear due to that high of voltage. I put the Tube amp on the Variac and keep it at 117VAC. The Furman has worked out great and glad I got it.

I had a PS Audio P-300 years back and sold it due to being out of work for a while. I wish I still had it. Too much $$$ for new ones from PS Audio.

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 18, 2021 at 14:44:18
johntoste
Audiophile

Posts: 459
Location: New England
Joined: March 20, 2004
 I'm at the very end of the power line and my voltage swings wildly. I'm currently borrowing a rebuilt Exact Power EP15A which partially regenerates and outputs a steady 120 volts.

It helps a lot. Soundstage depth is better, as is everything else on the audiophile checklist. Dynamics are particularly improved, which is a surprise.

Great sound was formerly "when the planets aligned."
Now it always sounds great.

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 18, 2021 at 17:04:29
mondial
Audiophile

Posts: 891
Location: S.E. ASIA
Joined: January 14, 2007
 For me it's very important w/ the quality of electricity we have here in the Philippines I used a 10KVA voltage regulator for my tube amps , and for my source , linestage , phonostage , preamps & turntables , they are plugged in one line conditioner then plugged to a 1 KVA voltage regulator . So far so good , no break downs , great sound specially when the big mall 3 km's from our place shuts down at 9pm .!

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 18, 2021 at 20:37:44
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4309
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Voltage is sometimes regulated on low level electronic stages albeit only on more costly gear since regulation costs money. Voltage is almost never regulated on the output stages of amplifiers.

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 19, 2021 at 17:19:02
Alpha Al
Industry Professional

Posts: 2958
Location: N. Carolina
Joined: February 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: December 3, 2015
 A lot of tube amps have regulated screen grid supplies for the output stage. Screen voltage affects tube current more than plate voltage. There is an ideal point where the tube is in it's most linear region.

With solid state, when the mains voltage swings high, the only result is a little more headroom.

 

RE: Due to my AC mains..., posted on January 19, 2021 at 19:26:33
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46291
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
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"I had a PS Audio P-300 years back and sold it due to being out of work for a while."

If you used yours fairly often, you probably sold it at a good time! Mine bit the dust around the 20-year mark. I know of others that died too due to age - specifically several of the electrolytic caps bulging and some leaking.

Not a simple fix because (if memory serves me) the entire circuit board assembly has to be removed and that also involves unscrewing several power transistors that are mounted to the chassis / heat sink. Not electronically challenging, just a mechanical pain in the butt, and probably a pain in the butt to realign putting it back together.




 

I used it quite a it..., posted on January 20, 2021 at 10:15:29
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4583
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
 but I could do the cap replacement. I would just have realize it would be a long project to do it right. Those things still are commanding some good money for them. My P-300 really never got too warm and barely registered the watts when using my system on it, never got close to 100 watts pull on it. If I remember correctly, the most I saw was around 60 watts on the front panel.

That was quite a bit of years out of it. It was like a Class A amp so I new it would need some sort of recapping down the road due to the heat. Jeff at Jeff Sound Values offered me a P-600 and I almost jumped on that deal he offered me but I was out of work at the time and other needs were more important at that time. Now that would have been a beast to repair!

I wonder if PS Audio would even repair/restore them now?

The Furman P1800 AR I have works great and I'm glad I grabbed one. It too a long time to break in to start sounding really nice. At first it was a little on the dull side but after 2 weeks of using it with my system and TV it was sound a lot better. After month of being on 24/7 it was really nice sounding on the audio gear and I could see a difference with the DLP TV I have plugged into it.

One bad thing, when I connected the tube amp to Furman it had a buzz sound coming from it and that was due to the extra current draw. Wasn't real loud but I could notice it if I walk by the Furman. Everything was at 120VAC. So I just put the VTA-120 on the Variac.

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 20, 2021 at 11:04:36
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 Made a decision yet?

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 20, 2021 at 18:00:14
Schlep
Audiophile

Posts: 289
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Joined: April 24, 2007
 @Hawkmoon - No. I use Transparent Cable and they too make a power 'conditioner', but it works using a different technology, i.e., not torroidal based. Frustrating. I may have to give that one a try. Transparent had great customer service and I do get loans thru my local dealer. Regarding the Torus, the voltage spec is +/- 5v. I did not pull out my DMM to determine voltage fluctuation in my wall outlet. When I was younger I would have done it immediately. As I get older, auditioning anything feels more like labor; but I love the results when I get there : )

@All - Thanks everyone, your contributions have been fantastic. Really interesting is Abe's graph showing the efficacy of the PS Audio Regenerator.

 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 21, 2021 at 05:23:59
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 Thanks! Let us know which way you go and the results you hear since many of us have the same issue.

 

RE: I used it quite a it..., posted on January 21, 2021 at 05:43:08
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46291
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I think you got your money's worth out of your P300, and you recovered a bit by selling it before it crapped out.

I recall finding suitable replacement caps for the P300 via Mouser or DigiKey.

I inquired about having mine repaired but PS Audio wanted something like $600. They did offer $600 in trade-in value toward the purchase of a newer model even though their trade-in policy demands that the trade be in working condition. I didn't take PS up on their offer because even with the trade, the new power regenerators are very expensive - IMHO.



 

RE: Importance of Voltage Regulation, posted on January 21, 2021 at 05:48:01
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 To your point: since the essential shut down of Manhattan- voltage is consistent at a min of 125- hi fiis spectacular-greater improvement than any changes in interconnects I ever made

 

Depending on how much work....., posted on January 21, 2021 at 06:03:36
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4583
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
 PS Audio was going to do, maybe $600 wouldn't be so bad. Did they say what they would do and parts would be replaced in the repair?

I Agree that the new regenerator are very expensive.

 

RE: Depending on how much work....., posted on January 22, 2021 at 10:55:56
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46291
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I didn't get a line by line quote for the repair. This was an over the phone worse case estimate covering everything that could be bad. The obvious by way of visual inspection just looking down from the top were several bulging caps, some leaking.



 

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