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New Equipment-Initial Bliss

76.14.251.77
Posted on November 26, 2020 at 11:04:20
jaydacus
 There has to be a better name for this. It happens to me often and I can't be the only one.

You get a new piece of gear and unless it's absolute garbage it initially sounds great. Then in a period of time that ranges from less than a minute to a couple of weeks you realize that your new purchase isn't all that.



 

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Euphoria, posted on November 26, 2020 at 11:11:27
bullethead
 I call it euphoria. When you get used to it then it goes away.

Most can't take a step down after that.

 

I've been there many times, posted on November 26, 2020 at 11:28:11
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46301
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I've been there many times with equipment that is new-to-me, but purchased used. I enjoy trying different gear and buying used made it affordable.

It usually takes me less than 10 minutes to an hour to hear and know if a piece of equipment sounds "right" for me. With digital gear 10 minutes or so is plenty. I give amps a fair hour to warm up. I don't need 500 hours of break-in to know whether it's a keeper or if I'll be shooting photos of it to post For Sale ads. Endless hours of break-in isn't going to change the sound significantly enough to turn a pig into a princess. Maybe a slightly prettier pig. Speakers may be the exception.

I once had a pair of hefty solid-state mono blocks that I really wanted to like. That's very different than really liking them ;-)

I knew straight away that they weren't to my liking but instead of packing them up like I would normally do, I tried a couple different tube preamps (along with tube rolling) ahead of the mono blocks to try and "fix" the poor sound. I ended up wasting too much time and energy on that project! Finally sold the mono blocks.


 

I've bought new gear that I hated from Day One., posted on November 26, 2020 at 11:38:16
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32588
Joined: July 14, 2017
 Some used stuff too. Sadly, it happens.
But the stuff I got last year, especially the Planar 6, really happy with.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

happened to many times with girls..., posted on November 26, 2020 at 11:44:19
LtMandella
 sometimes within an hour too!

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on November 26, 2020 at 12:42:34
geoffkait
 Just the opposite for me. New equipment and new cables always sound horrible initially.

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on November 26, 2020 at 13:32:30
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2382
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Not really, but I have bought gear and very quickly realised it was a mistake. Not usually for lack of research - I always carefully read reviews - both the lines and between the lines and I value recommendations on forums and show / showroom demos, but I certainly get it wrong sometimes.

Twice with speakers. Pro monitor speakers that I'd wanted for ages turned up as demo units from the builder. I kept them for 6 months only. New electrostatics, widely recommended and wonderful in showroom - just didn't sing in my room. Sold this week at a big loss.

Power amp raved about by fellow Avantgarde speaker owner - dull and lifeless - again a "pro" product that was no doubt accurate and good for its purpose.

Moral - never part with cash before a week-long trial in your own system. Sometimes difficult or you can't resist a bargain, but that's a risk you accept if bought untried!

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on November 26, 2020 at 15:02:20
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016
 Not so quickly for me. I've purchased equipment in the past that was everything it was promised to be. But months or longer down the road it becomes apparent I'm not enjoying the stereo as much, and even worse the records I am buying aren't the same kinds of records that I used to be interested in playing. More bass, better soundstage, more air and detail all the things I wanted but overall a less exciting and less fun and less involving musical experience. Yuck.

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on November 26, 2020 at 16:43:12
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 You can say that again. Another motto-if you cannot lift it do not buy it.

 

RE: Certainly not the only, but a very good reason to build., posted on November 26, 2020 at 19:31:33
B. Scarpia
 Especially when you consider that there are so few basic circuits, so many willing hands to help bring them into the 21st, and legions of parts choices to make something your very own.

As I wrote to my granddaughter recently, "doing is simply having the desire. One acquires the skills on the journey. ...muscle memory and knowledge is gained through as many successes as failures."



 

Not making lateral moves..., posted on November 26, 2020 at 20:48:30
raingerz
Audiophile

Posts: 547
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: July 20, 2013
 and buying clearly better equipment tends to help.

 

Better Known As "Placebo Effect".........., posted on November 26, 2020 at 21:00:11
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 I've had too many encounters, all too well......

Maybe my worst offense, in this regard, was here....... For a few days, I thought I had an "end game" product..... But in retrospect, it was just one of many mediocre digital audio products passing through my once spendthrift history.........

 

The "honeymoon" stage, posted on November 26, 2020 at 21:07:02
AudioDwebe
Audiophile

Posts: 1910
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 12, 2001
 At least that's always what I understood it to be.


"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on November 26, 2020 at 21:18:26
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 If there is a item in the audio chain in which the "new equipment bliss" almost never occurs for me, it's power amplifiers......

I cannot count the power amplifiers that I've either auditioned or purchased, in which my initial reaction was lukewarm, and after a few weeks, I've asked the question, "What is it about this amplifier that people like so much?" ....... (I thought the White Audio Labs A100 and Robertson Audio Forty Ten were Gawd-awful, in retrospect..... I was never impressed with the few Pass/First Watt amplifiers I've had as well..... )

Although I once auditioned a power amplifier at a store, the Audio Matiere Equilibre, and thought it was maybe an end-all product...... I purchased the demo unit, put it in my system..... The amp was indeed superlative after being powered up, but then came to the reality that the amp became "soupy" and "boring" after it has been on for several hours. (It was maybe the hottest running amplifier I've ever owned.) As if some being from the sky came down, pointed to me, and laughingly shouted "Sucker!!!"..... .... ...........

 

Or "Expectation Bias" (NT), posted on November 27, 2020 at 06:24:25
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002


 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on November 27, 2020 at 07:52:37
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Like most here have already stated, been down this road many a time myself. But at least now I'm finally in a position where I don't have to sell any of my current gear to finance a new purchase. So the "old" gear is always there to fall back on when the new purchase isn't all that.

 

An excellent book..., posted on November 27, 2020 at 08:03:08
mlsstl
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: Midwest
Joined: September 1, 2015
 ...on this subject is "A Mind of Its Own - How Your Brain Distorts and Deceives" by Cordelia Fine, 2006.

Our human nature and the way our brains function don't cease doing what they normally do just because the subject turns to audio. ;-)

 

Beyond that...., posted on November 27, 2020 at 08:13:35
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016
 Is being in a position to spend more money on upgrading equipment but just not feeling any need or desire to do it.

 

RE: Beyond that...., posted on November 27, 2020 at 08:27:33
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Strangely enough, I've somewhat arrived at that point as well. A rare moment of contentment. Don't know if I've finally put a perfect synergy together or it's simply old age : (

 

But what is meant by "lateral move" ?, posted on November 27, 2020 at 10:03:09
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46301
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 .

 

RE: But what is meant by "lateral move" ?, posted on November 27, 2020 at 10:14:16
bullethead
 I would say sideways, similar to my parallel explanation, if you can't get euphoria from your setup, spend more money. Otherwise it is just experimenting with the same crap toys over and over and losing time in the process.

parallel you are hitting your head against the ceiling, lateral you are moving sideways into the same box of crap you've built for yourself as well. you've got to break on through to the other side. it is better there.

 

My favorites and some outright duds..., posted on November 27, 2020 at 10:37:45
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46301
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I've bought new and used gear over the years that I thought would be excellent but many turned out to be duds. And I've sold some incredibly fine sounding gear due to my downsized listening room. We have the basement with lots of space but it is unfinished so not very inviting. My smaller setup has been in the home office where I listen daily. That will change once we finish the basement.

I've owned several amps, preamps, CD players, phono preamps, turntables, cartridges, and cables over the decades. Most were used but some new. This "experimenting" has taught me what I like and dislike and I will no doubt scale my system back up once the basement is done.

The only thing I haven't swapped out frequently are speakers. Too much of a hassle packing, schlepping, and shipping these massive pieces around the country. My main speakers are: Thiel CS2.4 and Tannoy Definition D500. Both sets are tower speakers.

Below is just a tiny sampling of gear that I have owned over the decades.

Some of my historical favorites:

- Manley Neo-Classic 250 huge EL34 mono blocks
- Cary SLP-05 tube linestage
- Pass Labs X150.5 SS stereo amp
- Pass Labs XP-10 SS linestage
- AES/Cary SixPac EL34 mono blocks
- Accuphase DP-65v CDP
- Cary CD 306/200 CDP
- Rogue Ares tube phono preamp
- Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC

Some outright duds:

- Bryston 4BSST2 SS mono blocks
- Fanfare FT1A Tuner
- Conrad-Johnson PV-14L tube linestage
- Musical Surroundings battery phonostage
- Luxman DA-06 DAC
- Wavelength Audio Brick USB DAC v3 w/mortar LPS
- Many more but these are at the top of my dud list ;-)






 

The idea of "lateral move" needs more..., posted on November 27, 2020 at 11:04:46
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46301
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Lateral move doesn't mean anything unless we put some parameters and perspective around it. Is it a lateral move in terms of sound quality? Or is it a lateral move in terms of price?

Sure we can move laterally in terms of price, but that doesn't necessarily equate to a lateral move in terms of sound quality.

I've actually gone DOWN in price [significantly] on some items but have gone noticeably UP in sound quality by a huge amount.

Example: $4000 Luxman DA-06 DAC compared to a $700 Topping D90 DAC. DOWN in price. Huge improvement in sound quality. The Luxman sucked.

So when someone throws out "lateral move" are they coming from a pricing perspective or a sonic perspective?




 

here's the problem, posted on November 27, 2020 at 11:12:24
bullethead
 the engineers are a lot smarter now.

it doesn't matter where in the world they live.

it is easier to get to that top 5% or whatever they are calling it now, as you said with your experience.

the issue then boils down to whatever you like, I gather whatever floats your boat was what they called it, at least the golf players I've been around.

 

Not really TBH, posted on November 27, 2020 at 12:58:08
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 7728
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
 Most stuff I didn't like, was from the git-go.
Bought some well reviewed Mission speakers, nope. Had them in the LR for a bit, but never really used them. Still have them, but just sitting in the back of my room doing nothing for many years.
Well reviewed MF tube buffer, nope. Didn't like it from day one. Tried rolling tubes. Nope. Sold it as I had no use at all for it.
I don't find my feelings for a product change much apart from break-in and getting better in some cases.

 

RE: The idea of "lateral move" needs more..., posted on November 27, 2020 at 13:04:17
Gary
Audiophile

Posts: 1297
Location: New York, NY
Joined: April 21, 2000
 Hi Abe,

I've always thought "lateral move" referred to sonic performance, not price. To me it meant that the new piece of equipment did not improve on the one replaced. It might have different features or a different sound but there was no improvement from what came before.

 

I don't agree with that at all., posted on November 27, 2020 at 14:44:49
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016
 I think someone needs to understand what they like before they spend more money on something that's better. Yes more money probably means "better" but that doesn't mean someone will like it as much as what they replace.

It's about heaping on strengths (not balancing weakness with strengths) based on a system builders preferences.

To be more clear there's no doubt I could have a system costing 4 times or more than the system I'm currently enamored with and just not have much interest in listening to it. One man's pride and joy is another guys barf bag. It's clearly a subjectivists hobby.

Spending more money doesn't even guarantee mediocrity.


 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on November 27, 2020 at 15:18:01
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 3156
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2018
 I remember when I purchased the Robertson 4010 brand new. Lots of fanfare for sure. I liked it in my system at the time.

But I got mixed results as I carted the amp around to various friends and dealers to see what the fuss about. Staggering opinions flip flopped depending on the set up. Sometimes we would hear no difference swapping back and forth LOL.

Really miss those days.

Cheers!

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

Would you care to provide an example?, posted on November 27, 2020 at 17:36:33
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 And what did the new piece of gear replace?

 

Same here, posted on November 27, 2020 at 19:24:50
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 What sounds good or bad on day one pretty much stays that way for me.

Bought a Crown XLS1500 for the garage system because everyone raved about them. Having owned other models by them in the past, I didn't have high expectations. And wasn't particularly surprised. Nice midrange, but horrible top end. Sold it shortly afterwards.

Made some DIY starquad DC cables for an RPi streamer after reading using low inductance cable improved sound quality. The only surprise was in the manner in which they did so - better low level dynamics.

Not much churn in my systems.

 

Come to think of it, posted on November 27, 2020 at 20:29:48
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016
 Ok this has happened more than once. I bring home a CD player, disconnect my old player, attach the new one and viola sounds much better.

But in hindsight if I would have just disconnected my old CD player and reconnected it, viola it would sound much better. Like getting a new CDP for free!

Honest want a new system for free. Take all the interconnects off then reconnect them. Like getting a new stereo for free!

Is it possible this has something to do with your observation?

 

I would say a sonic perspective, posted on November 27, 2020 at 20:56:20
raingerz
Audiophile

Posts: 547
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: July 20, 2013
 Keep what wows you as being in a different class (after you've had an opportunity to audition it.) I too have heard better quality equipment that was cheaper than what it had replaced (for example, in my system the Mytek Brooklyn DAC + was much better-sounding than the McIntosh D100 and cost $800 less). Price may suggest better quality, but you still have to use your ears. I like to think that you'll know better quality when you hear it.

 

Agreed (basically) nt, posted on November 27, 2020 at 21:01:22
raingerz
Audiophile

Posts: 547
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: July 20, 2013
 Nt

 

Swapping speakers, posted on November 28, 2020 at 05:22:45
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 8491
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 The love of new and different is why having 2 or more different speakers that work with your electronics to make your system new periodically works for me. Ever few months I have a new system.
Gsquared

 

RE: Not really TBH, posted on November 28, 2020 at 08:31:48
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2382
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Not really. You've paid good money for what you believe and hope will represent a big improvement. Day 1 and it disappoints, but you give it the benefit of the doubt believing that it needs to be run in for a couple of weeks. Only then can you realistically compare with your old gear - unless of course it shines from Day 1. More often than not, you're purchase has turned out to be good, but often many days of anxiety and uncertainty.

 

RE: I don't agree with that at all., posted on November 28, 2020 at 10:17:33
Gary
Audiophile

Posts: 1297
Location: New York, NY
Joined: April 21, 2000
 Of course, there's the other side of this: When you replace a piece of equipment and find that there's a big improvement. That improvement proves to be consistent and repeatable. That's happened to me several times fairly recently.

 

Is Covid seclusion associated with upgraditis?, posted on November 28, 2020 at 13:02:08
chocolate_lover9999@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1628
Location: South Central Coast, California
Joined: October 12, 2003
 I couldn't resist testing the positive reviews/feedback of a Belles Aria integrated and Bifrost 2 (Topping D90, SMSL M400, Denafrips Ares 2 and RME ADI-2 also popular in price range although DAC's and integrateds often fall into the category of the best component of the year this week) and synergy/ sonics are indeed excellent. How long auditory bliss lasts will be interesting.

 

Pretty sure audio upgraditis predates COVID as we know it. And electricity too..., posted on November 28, 2020 at 13:47:48
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 for that matter.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

pretty sure associated does not = predates :), posted on November 28, 2020 at 14:56:18
chocolate_lover9999@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1628
Location: South Central Coast, California
Joined: October 12, 2003
 :)

 

RE: I don't agree with that at all., posted on November 28, 2020 at 18:54:06
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016
 Have you ever made an upgrade (not a lateral move) that brought audible improvements but ultimately you ended up liking the listening experience less?

 

Brog say this rock make best sound when hit with branch! nt, posted on November 29, 2020 at 07:27:06
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 d

 

RE: I don't agree with that at all., posted on November 29, 2020 at 09:32:48
Gary
Audiophile

Posts: 1297
Location: New York, NY
Joined: April 21, 2000
 I can only think of one instance where that happened to me: Years ago I replaced a Denon DL-103R with a Lyra Helikon. I got what I thought was an improvement in high frequency reproduction but ultimately I preferred the way the Denon handled high frequencies. I went back to the Denon.

 

More along horn size, bell content, metal needle or cactus ,winding appertures..., posted on November 29, 2020 at 12:15:05
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004









Audiophile as we have come to know (understand?) it...

Of course it's more of a solo venture than it used to be.


"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: More along horn size, bell content, metal needle or cactus ,winding appertures..., posted on November 29, 2020 at 12:21:39
rivervalley817
 no hoity-toity electronics of any kind to get in the way of the pure musical signal there! too bad there weren't any pure musical signals then

no matter, you can tell that the listeners are captivated

regards,

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on November 30, 2020 at 21:51:32
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 I had a Robertson Forty Ten on two different occasions...... All I remember was preferring the Amber Series 70 (silver and black rack mount faceplate) over it on the first occasion (I was hoping it would be an upgrade over the Amber, but not to be), the backup amp to the Symfonia Opus 10 amp on the second (several contenders, the BRB 200 won out).......

The amp was just dry and "boring"......

I did listen to a Forty Ten in a home seller's system (had a Michell Gyrodec turntable and British monitor speakers), and it did sound good in that system. It was what got me to try the amp in the first place. (I remember the magazine ad, with a young girl saying "I love my Robertson Forty Ten".... )

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on December 1, 2020 at 10:15:28
immatthewj
 I can only think of a couple of items.

I used to be loyal to a dealer in Filthadelphia (this was before the internet started running rampant) & he always raved about "The Promethian Audio Products Power Flow" (power conditioner). I am not sure if there was even "initial bliss".

I think bought my "Genesis Time Lines" (after an audition) from The Cable Company. I think that met the criteria for "initial bliss" that wore off. I am too lazy to to the A/B thing & I am not sure I wanted to know.

 

RE: An excellent book..., posted on December 3, 2020 at 18:59:13
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 whatever dude. That chick IS really into me...

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on December 4, 2020 at 20:56:04
farmdoc
Audiophile

Posts: 190
Location: No. California
Joined: December 8, 2002
 Late '70s, bought new first 'high' equipment
Hafler 101 pre and dh 200 amp
Avid 102a speakers. Then upgraded soon thereafter to new Rogers LS3/5a's and an Altec sub.
Kept blowing subs fuse; wanted bass, so splurged on B&W 801F's.
Now everything sounded pretty good; but heard about a Hafler upgrade from Jensen's Stereo Shop (Indiana?). Sent the Hafler pre in and WHOWZa!! What a revelation....that mod really made me understand what all this talk about 2 channel stereo was about. (I think Frank van Alstine did the mod.)
I have moved on since then; kept most of the above (in storage), but am still trying to re create the epiphany I experienced with that $225 mod on an inexpensive preamp.

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on January 22, 2021 at 19:04:51
mwheelerk
Audiophile

Posts: 434
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Joined: December 27, 2005
 I spent a lot of my lifetime (1972 -2019) pursuing quality audio equipment and accessories and I enjoyed it. Yet, I have a very simplistic system and library these days and enjoy it and the focus on the music very much.

 

RE: New Equipment-Initial Bliss, posted on January 23, 2021 at 16:37:19
svisner
Audiophile

Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002
 In my case, the opposite. Things I like from the start (with one big exception) I continue to like. However, if I buy something that just doesn't sound right, no matter how much I try to like it, I just can't. Happened recently with a DAC. Thought it would be an upgrade. Just wasn't. Not spacious or nearly as musical. The specs were apparently better than the unit it was to replace. However, the output amp, while having higher output, has a lower spec. The difference is obvious (to me, anyway).

 

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