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Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer

82.39.184.201
Posted on May 6, 2017 at 03:19:20
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017
 Hello all this is my first post having recently submitting to my status of geeky audiophile. I have 2 questions.
1) I have 2 B&W 365 bookshelf speakers on stands. There is the opportunity to bi-wire. Will it really make a difference to the audible sound?
2) I have a lovely Cambridge Audio CXA 60 amp. The combination of this and speakers I find very very choice. I stream using a dedicated android pad with aptX Bluetooth to BT100 receiver. Will purchasing a Cambridge Audio CXN produce a sound and "audible" difference. Something more than subtle; I mean a real difference I can hear? It's very easy for an audiophile to convince themselves that their new purchase is just. I'd love to think that the amazing sound I have can be bettered with the CXN but can it? Is there any equipment that can test and quantify this "audible" difference?

My finger is firmly on the "buy now" link. Is it worth

 

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RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 6, 2017 at 04:43:26
mgbpuff
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Georgia
Joined: June 13, 2009
Contributor
  Since: October 4, 2009
 I do not think that bi-wiring will result in any improvement to sound. If you have the wires, try it - can't hurt trying. But if you do not have the wires, I would not waste money buying them. As for the CXN, I think it will improve sound over your present bluetooth setup. However I think the CXN is overpriced and has been around for quite a while. I have the Oppo Sonica which is less expensive than the CXN and more up-to-date. It does not have a remote however - you must use a tablet (IOS or Android) with the Sonica App to control it.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 6, 2017 at 08:29:58
ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 2994
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002
 I wouldn't get to excited about bi-wiring making a noticeable difference with your set-up. By all means experiment, but the additional outlay for the extra speaker wire will probably better spent on new music, and something nice for your other half.

As for the CXN, I've owned one for the last 18 months and what has impressed me most is the built-in DAC. I say this because it sounds a good deal better than the sound from the Squeezebox Touch it took the place of. The improvements I have noticed are with three-dimensionality, mid-range clarity, and in particular high frequency detail. Vocals sound a little more airy too.

I miss a couple of features of the Squeezebox Touch (like fast fwd and fast backward), but overall, the CXN is a lovely upgrade and has a better app' than the SQBT, although I sometimes have to delete and uninstall the app to get it to behave. No big deal, not least because the remote it comes with not only does everything for the CXN, but it also operates my Naim Nait XS, despite not being a universal remote. It will operate your Cambridge amp too of course.

The best bit about the CXN is it will allow you to hook-up an external hard drive and play songs from that. I have a 2TB hard drive with all my digital tunes on it. I never have to leave my seat unless I buy new music.

I have not compared the CXN with the combo you speak of, but don't be surprised if it offers a sonic upgrade over what you have. The CXN pushes well above it's weight if you ask me. It works as a DAC for other devices too, and can be used with an external DAC too. Although you'd be looking at an Oppo Sonica or better to improve upon what's in the CXN.

 

Wow., posted on May 6, 2017 at 08:33:43
ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 2994
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002
 I guess I needn't have posted. My post practically mirrors yours!
Does the Sonica allow you to connect an external Hard Drive? If it does, I might just get one of those to replace my CXN!

 

Ditto both recommendations, posted on May 6, 2017 at 08:54:44
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Bi-wiring is potentially advantageous, but most likely not offering a good cost to benefit ratio in your case.

Network based streamers definitely offer better sound quality than BT transmitted audio. BT is convenient for certain applications, but the added noise and distortion can be avoided.

You may also want to consider some less expensive streamer options that can perform as well as the CA appliance such as the very popular Raspberry Pi platform. The latter requires a bit of "assembly" since it is an open domain sort of product, but offers incredible value. You'll find lots of discussion over at the PC Audio forum.

 

RE: Wow., posted on May 6, 2017 at 11:23:02
mgbpuff
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Georgia
Joined: June 13, 2009
Contributor
  Since: October 4, 2009
 Yes, it has USB type A host connectors on the front and the back.

 

Before You Bi-Wire, posted on May 6, 2017 at 11:52:07
Luminator
Audiophile

Posts: 7331
Location: Bay Area
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I don't know what a B&W 365 is. But I have lived with various B&Ws, all of which were bi-wireable. I'm not sure if your "365" comes with bi-wire jumpers. If so, before you embark on speaker cable changes, be sure that you stick those jumpers (and ALL other cables) on a cable burn-in device. We use an audiodharma Cable Cooker, but there are a couple of other devices.

If you are still using a stereo pair + bi-wire jumper, you have to experiment with the permutations. With the B&W 805S, my guests vacillated, between which was better: having the speaker cable go first to the woofer, or first to the tweeter.

My Cable Cooker has treated dozens of bi-wire jumpers. Many of the owners find that the Cooked jumpers alleviate that urge to acquire additional speaker cables.

-Lummy The Loch Monster

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 6, 2017 at 13:19:24
Kingshead
Audiophile

Posts: 574
Location: Florida
Joined: September 14, 2016
 Biwiring? Arguable to minimal. Biamping? That's a big HELL YA.

Martin

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 6, 2017 at 18:11:05
PAR
 There is one very important thing missing from your description of your circumstances. You say that you stream from a tablet. But what do you stream?

The quality of your source material will make the biggest difference. If you are using a source such as Spotify or even your own rips from CD which use a lossy codec like Vorbis Ogg, MP3 etc. then you will never achieve optimum sound. You cannot restore what has been lost by the codec. For the same reason Bluetooth is not the best choice even with aptx.

That is not to say that BT aptx, MP3 etc. do not make a decent job of what they are intended to do. But they are really designed for convenience rather than as methods for the best sound. Your question means that you now wish to head towards a true audiophile system and this depends fundamentally on the quality of the material fed to the rest of the system irrespective of how good that system is. The better the system then more open the "window" is and not only will music sound better but faults will also be more audible.

So let us know what your actual music source is . Then we can offer the best and most practical advice.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 7, 2017 at 02:39:35
JURB
Audiophile

Posts: 2056
Location: North Ohio
Joined: May 29, 2016
 "Biwiring? Arguable to minimal. Biamping? That's a big HELL YA."

Agreed, that is what separable crossovers are for. The idea is to eliminate IM distortion. That is pretty low in modern amps, but you also may want to use a class D woofer amp and a tube tweeter amp, if you can set it up right. Most lower power tube amps don't do really well on low bass, but in other ranges they have qualities that some seem to like.

But just doubling the number of wires from one amp to speaker will gain pretty much nothing.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 7, 2017 at 05:28:03
Bill Way
Audiophile

Posts: 1884
Location: Toms River NJ
Joined: May 28, 2012
Contributor
  Since: December 14, 2012
 I've found that bi-wiring can make a pretty big difference in low-level detail/harmonics, but only if the wire pairs are kept separated by an inch or two for most of the run. I've *never* heard a difference when the wire pairs are contained in a common sheath. YMMV.

WW
"Put on your high heeled sneakers. Baby, we''re goin'' out tonight.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 7, 2017 at 16:21:59
ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 2994
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002
 This could suggest the gains are not had by using a second amplifier, but because you separated the speaker wires.
Which opens the door to trying this experiment with simply bi-wiring keeping the cables apart using the one amplifier.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 8, 2017 at 03:32:32
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017
 This is probably a case of wanting my cake and eating it. I want true hi-fi and quality BUT for the forseable future I ain't going to purchase vinyl or hunt down SACD's. So to answer your question which will bring up 1 more question I am using Spotify and streaming aptX CODEC via bluetooth and I am told aptX is the best for bluetooth. I am streaming this off an android pad which I purchased soley for the one job (and no other job) and because it had aptX CODEC bluetooth.

The question that now arises is a) does Spotify offer better quality streaming if I go premium and b) how does this compare (audibly i.e. not numbers and speculation) with say Tidal which is a "premium losless" streaming application but at twice the price

 

RE: Bi-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 8, 2017 at 05:07:16
PAR
 The original Spotify offer provided improved sound quality (320Kbs) for the Premium option. However I have just checked their current web page and the better sound quality is no longer mentioned. I suspect that means that all is now 320kBS and the paid for option gets you the advert free version and the ability to listen offline etc.

I would not , however, rely upon the free option remaining indefinitely. There is a lot of music industry pressure for Spotify to have only a paid for service like its competitors. I won't go into the reasons but they are significant.

Tidal offers a similar lossy product to Spotify Premium for the same price, as does Qobuz.

Unlike Spotify currently ( they are experimenting with CD quality), both Tidal and Qobuz also offer full CD quality streaming but for 20 gbp/month. Sound quality is noticebly superior. However even though lossy Spotify does offer a decent sound its limitations are obvious in direct comparison and become more so as the demands of the original recording increase.

Given a choice between Tidal and Qobuz then currently Qobuz is a more sophisticated experience offering extended metadata at track level, artist or composer biographies and links to their other works, even full CD booklets. In a way it now resembles Roon (if you know Roon, that is). The sound quality of Qobuz is also held to be the best although Tidal does offer a limited number of MQA encoded tracks. However you will not be able to use MQA via your Bluetooth connection so this will have no value for you.

Along with, I expect, the vast majority of inmates I would say that CD quality is the lowest that is viable for a true audiophile experience. I therefore would not wnat to spend money on a network streamer or have other hardware expenditure just to play free Spotify.

So, cheapest option is to continue as you are. If you want a real improvement then I would now disregard the lowest paid for level as this will not get you any better sonic results than you currently enjoy ( however losing the ads is very attractive as are some of the other benefits).

If you can afford 20 quid a month then get Qobuz as you live in the UK where it is available.

However why not just simply try out Tidal and Qobuz CD quality option as both offer a free trial? IMO if you choose either of them then it is really worthwhile thinking of better equipment. If you stick with Spotify lossy as your sole source then that is a limitation that cannot be overcome elsewhere.

 

A Further Thought, posted on May 8, 2017 at 06:23:42
PAR
 It slipped by me above, but for all of the streaming services your use of a tablet to receive them means that you will be unable to use their desktop application. This means you will have to use the smartphone/tablet app. As these are meant for portable use and to be viewed on small screens and not be too greedy on power requirements they are stripped down compared to the desktop. Accordingly not all features may be available or as clear to use.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 8, 2017 at 17:29:02
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 B&W is notorious for efective bi-wiring, since their engineering is focused on true bi-wire configurations vs. some makers who include the feature based on marketing. IMO, true bi-wiring should be considered standard and implemented as a choice by a listener unless there is a reason not offer a product with true bi-wire capability; such as a loudspeaker with a 1st order crossover or perhaps 'precision voicing' based on elimination of variables that a set of unpredictable bi-wire cables might present, or perhaps other issues designers might address. Otherwise, there is do downside to true-bi-wiring other than the added expense including bi-wire cabling. my 2 cents

 

RE: Bi-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 9, 2017 at 00:45:33
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017
 Many thanks. Just for the record Spotify are now advertising premium grade quality music for the audiophile with Spotify Premium. But I can find no more than that.
What is MQA please and how do I play these tracks?
I think what you're saying is that there's a quality of streamed music which, when streamed at a certain quality it is only then worth investing in a network streamer? Is tgis correct and if so what is the minimum quality of the streamed music?
If you do get information on the quality of streamed music from Spotify Premium please let me know. I'll pay but I want variety AND option to stream superior sound.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 9, 2017 at 00:50:17
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017
 So it seems that bi-wiring is a good option with by B&W 365 speakers? I'll give it a go

 

RE: Before You Bi-Wire, posted on May 9, 2017 at 02:01:52
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017



Cheers. Please look at the image of the rear of my B&W speakers. Maybe this helps? The manual also advocates it.

 

RE: Bi-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 9, 2017 at 02:53:27
PAR
 O.K. I'll try to amswer as folows:

Premium grade music on Spotify still means a lossy code is used ( I think Vorbis Ogg). Spotify offers a data rate of 320kb/s. I was wrong in my earlier posting when I said that the free option looked as if it was the same. Although the descriptions for both mention " high quality audio" it is greyed out on the free option. That means that if you pay 10 pounds a month you will get better quality. However the difference between that 320kb/s and CD quality should be clear on listening. My own view is that Spotify Premium offers a fairly good sound but having had two Spotify subscribing friends listen to Qobuz in comparison, both are now Qobuz subscribers. Perhaps you could subscribe to Premium and try the free offers from Qobuz and Tidal and see what you prefer. Don't make an instant decision just get into them over the 15 days allowed. You can always cancel any of the free offers before they take any subscription from your account ( BTW you do this via the My Account option you will see on the player).

MQA is a method of streaming high resolution files via a standard resolution carrier. MQA also claim to improve the original sound by "deblurring" it. With Tidal CD quality option this means that they have a selection of MQA encoded files (currently all from Warners). You can choose to play these but only with the desktop player to carry out the processing you need to hear basic MQA. Otherwise you need an MQA equipped DAC to get the full effect or to hear MQA. So unfortunately your exisiting tablet/Bluetooth based system cannot take advantage of this.

A minumum standard for audiophile replay? I would generally say that any lossy or compressed audio carrier is insufficient for true high fidelity use. However all carriers have their own limitations. It is just that the losses occur ( hopefully :-)) in areas not important for normal music listening. So I would go with standard redbook CD as the minimum common standard. There is not much point in paying for audio hardware which has a performance capabilty significantly better than the signal fed to it. That is cerainly the case with the audio standard offered as a free option with Spotify.

I hope that helps. Please remember to let us know what you end up deciding upon.


 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 9, 2017 at 03:22:30
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017
 Many thanks PAR for your helpful hints and info'. It seems that even though there are for me benefits to Spotify Premium and Amazon Prime Music I will be looking into Tidal and Qobuz. Both had my attention and there seems to be "no better" than Qobuz especially IF you sign up to their Qobuz "Sublime" Service at £219.99 PA! But if you're already a Qobuz subscriber you get a £67.40 discount giving an annual subscription of £152.59. See below:
http://blogsv2.qobuz.com/qobuz-blog-en/2015/05/13/discover-qobuz-sublime-everything-you-need-to-know/
As far as I can tell this service offers top quality streaming from all 24 bit formats up to and including 192 kHz BUT you also have to buy the music too (after annual subscription and sublime service)! Did I read this correctly? If so then it will have to be Tidal BUT I will try both services (without "sublime") on the free 15-day trial.
It seems that streamed music is here to stay and dominate the market. I don't for one minute doubt that in 1-2 years I will be playing vinyl once more but I'm having fun with the sheer magnitude of choice of networked music. Please do give me some indicators on exactly how Qobuz works please? It's not exactly clear to me on their website.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 9, 2017 at 03:40:51
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017



Hi Duster (A) maybe this photo helps? Is bi-wiring advisable?

 

RE: Bi-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 9, 2017 at 05:31:17
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017
 Hi PAR (A)
Ok so in order to get MQA sound it seems like "Tidal Masters" subscription is one way forward. That being said I am looking for a network streamer, Cambridge Audio CXN or Oppo Sonica SDAC-3 are on top of my list, but neither streamer lists MQA in it's audio format support specifications.
http://acton.audio/oppo-sonica-sdac-3-audiophile-dac-network-streamer/
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/cx/cxn
Is this a concern? If the hardware does not support MQA? As I understand the App via the interface has a decoder but is this sufficient to give the "Master Qualifty Authentication" sound?
I now understand the desire for plug and play now but I'm enjoying the hi-fi ride; it's all in the faff for me ;-).

 

RE: Bi-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 9, 2017 at 07:12:05
PAR
 Frankly at this point in time I would not be very concerned about MQA. Yes it exists but it is very (very) limited in its application so far. Most importantly even if it is proven to work technically it is not yet proven to have any commercial traction. It may well be one of those audio inventions that fails to get a grip in the market and ultimately fades away (like digital tape or dbx).

I would not advise investing in it at this point in its development unless the component that you really want offers it as a bonus. If it does become established that will take some further time by when you may be moving on to another component anyway. You will also need to have a wired system, not conneceted via Bluetooth. And, as other inmates have observed, a very good DAC without MQA beats a less good DAC with it.

Will the Tidal app give you Master Quality Authenticated audio? As I understand things the phone/tablet app will not. That software MQA decoding is only available on the desktop player. It will give you the basic form of MQA which is called the first fold ( the idea is that the hi-rez data is "folded " three times to fit it into the standard-rez carrier). That first fold allows a data rate of up to 24 bit/96Ks/s. Incidentally as this data rate is now pretty standard in recording studios most current hi-rez repertoire will be of this nature unless upsampled ( which has its own negative aspects). Higher rates like 24/192 require the full monty.

 

RE: Big-wiring and Cambridge Audio CXN network streamer, posted on May 9, 2017 at 11:23:38
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Yes, remove those brass straps and bi-wire the B&W 685.

 

RE: Cable cookers.... Bunk , posted on May 9, 2017 at 12:08:09
BigguyinATL
Manufacturer

Posts: 3475
Joined: April 10, 2002
 Don't waste your hard earned money!
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius

 

RE: A Further Thought, posted on May 9, 2017 at 13:20:44
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017
 That's a huge help Par A. Many thanks. I need to ensure my iMac upstairs will receive a Bluetooth signal from my BT100 linked to the CA CXA60. It doesn't at the moment despite other devices such as my Kindle and iPhone picking it up at the same distance. To play MQA files it must be off the desktop computer using Tidal Masters. Another glitch in the matrix!

 

Straps, posted on May 9, 2017 at 23:03:35
Luminator
Audiophile

Posts: 7331
Location: Bay Area
Joined: December 11, 2000
 A.) I noticed that you run your stereo speaker cable first to the tweeter post. Have you also tried running the speaker cable to teh woofer post first?

B.) Once you determine which ways sounds better to your given your equipment and tastes, at the very least, get the bi-wire strips on a cable burn-in device. If you use the audiodharma Cable Cooker, you will have to tie some wire, in order to make the connection, but that'll do. But make sure you burn the straps in the preferred direction.

C.) Several people here have experimented with replacing those straps with dedicated bi-wire jumpers. You can do a search over on AA's Cable Asylum forum.

D.) If you go to my homepage,you'll have to rummage through 12 years of posts, but I have extensively covered bi-wire jumpers from Cardas, MIT, Nordost, Stereovox, Tara Labs, Wireworld, XLO, and a few other brands, whose names escape me.

E.) Of B&W's vast history and lineup, I am perhaps most well-versed in their 805S. Click on the link below for a little bit of info.

 

RE: A Further Thought, posted on May 10, 2017 at 00:20:21
PAR
 That "A" after my moniker just tells you my status here. It means audiophile/music lover. If you click on it then you can find out about me and my system. You will also see people with other letters after their monikers. "B" means that they are members of the Bored ( Board) and run the show. "M" are equipment manufacturers, " P" music industry professionals and "R" audio and/or music magazine reviewers (or in one or two cases they are also the editors).

BTW it can be worthwhile choosing the right forum for your questions. Many inmates (inmates as this is an asylum) with specific expertise would not necessarily visit forums unrelated to their area of interest. It is also worthwhile going to the respective forums and searching their archives to see if your question has already been answered, if you haven't tried that already.

Good luck with your connection!

 

RE: A Further Thought, posted on May 11, 2017 at 03:25:10
hesslemount@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Barnsley
Joined: May 6, 2017
 That's a huge help Par A. Many thanks. I need to ensure my iMac upstairs will receive a Bluetooth signal from my BT100 linked to the CA CXA60. It doesn't at the moment despite other devices such as my Kindle and iPhone picking it up at the same distance. To play MQA files it must be off the desktop computer using Tidal Masters. Another glitch in the matrix!

 

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