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Are you a tone guy or a details-retrieval guy?

199.10.28.20
Posted on March 24, 2017 at 09:45:33
magiccarpetride
Audiophile

Posts: 1523
Joined: March 31, 2010
 Of course, the easy answer is 'both'. But that's easier said than done.

I keep discovering that it is very challenging to upgrade/tweak my system and make equally significant improvements in both the quality of the tone and the details retrieval. Usually the tweak/upgrade is asymmetrical. Either it improves the tone of the system, at the expense of some details retrieval, or the other way around.

And it's not only me; I've noticed similar trajectory as I'm following upgrades/tweaks that my buddies are making. Some of them tend to lean more toward favouring detail retrieval and are okay with sacrificing some of the tone density and thickness, others are more into chasing after lovely tone, even if it means some of the finer details get lost.

I'd be curious to hear what others on this fine forum think about this issue. Or, maybe it's all just a figment of my imagination? Maybe all power amps sound the same?

 

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How about dynamic contrasts? , posted on March 24, 2017 at 10:25:19
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
 ...you can have it all.

My priorities:

Tone/harmonics
Dynamics
Detail

 

Good point., posted on March 24, 2017 at 10:43:31
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 The notion of "musical vs. analytical" tends to be based on dynamics vs. detail rather than tonality/harmonics which are vital aspects of detail retrieval rather than that of dynamics which has more to do with PRAT a.k.a "boogie factor", which is a vital aspect of musicality.

 

RE: Are you a tone guy or a details-retrieval guy?, posted on March 24, 2017 at 11:22:59
Tweaker456
 I'm a tone guy this time around. I do a lot of listening live and very close and don't believe I hear the kind of etched or hyper detail that one often gets in a stereo. I't may be that the two characteristics you bring up are somewhat mutually exclusive. Just a theory. T456

 

Both- no need to sacrifice either. nt, posted on March 24, 2017 at 12:00:10
Ralph
Manufacturer

Posts: 4769
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 24, 2002
 -

 

Yup. Agree. I am mostly a detail, particularly treble detail person. Tone has suffered at times.., posted on March 24, 2017 at 14:15:28
3+4=5
 As I chased my ideal, I lost a bit of proper tone. IE my system was a little lean.
I fixed that 100% with the last upgrade of $$$$ cables.
I spent %5000 on three IC sets.

I need detail, I like tone.
I have no use for gut massage bass at all.

 

+1... RE: Both- no need to sacrifice either. nt, posted on March 24, 2017 at 14:16:22
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 3156
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2018
 nt


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

That's a little like asking..., posted on March 24, 2017 at 14:21:09
Inmate51
 Are you a face, tits or legs guy?

Answer: The whole package!

:)

 

RE: That's a little like asking..., posted on March 24, 2017 at 14:25:51
magiccarpetride
Audiophile

Posts: 1523
Joined: March 31, 2010
 >Answer: The whole package!

But such women are far and in-between!

 

RE: The best tone..., posted on March 24, 2017 at 14:47:36
b.l.zeebub
Audiophile

Posts: 9361
Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
Joined: April 17, 2006
 ...is achieved by retrieving all the details.

 

+2 (nt), posted on March 24, 2017 at 14:55:42
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 9626
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002

 

you forgot..., posted on March 24, 2017 at 17:22:16
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16016
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016
 butts
all the best,
mrh

 

RE: The best tone..., posted on March 24, 2017 at 22:01:10
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 A really good system will give you everything
Alan

 

Tone aka timbre is driven by attacks and decays, NOT by 'the continuous tone', posted on March 25, 2017 at 02:49:44
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 And, many instruments don't DO continuous tone, ever.

The two aspects you raise are orthogonal.

Most recordings are mostly pop, and are close miked which distort both.

Tail chase.


Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: Are you a tone guy or a details-retrieval guy?, posted on March 25, 2017 at 03:45:51
Quint
Dealer

Posts: 3657
Joined: June 21, 2003
 At this point in my audiophile life, I'm about sonic "balance" more than anything else. Sure, I like hearing details I've never heard before--that's really cool, and I'm still a sucker for that trick--but detail without tone is just a crooked assemblage of sounds. And tone without detail is just a musical blob. So I've tried to stake out a midpoint. Who knows how successful I've been. I guess it depends on whom you ask. But it's not easy, and it's taken a lot of time and experimentation, and a whole lot of money!

This is a public service announcement . . . WITH GUITARS!!!

 

I expect that is determined by, posted on March 25, 2017 at 11:09:14
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 how much live acoustic music a person hears and how much they attempt to come as close as possible to that at home. Still, no cigars are handed out.

When I attend a symphonic concert I don't hear score "pages being turned" as some like to reference. Nor do I hear all the precise instrument placement others rave about. But then I prefer to sit more than 10 rows back to be enveloped by the whole orchestra as a cohesive sound. Others may prefer to sit directly up front (like Harry Pearson) where they experience a different soundstage.

Such individual preferences may be reflected in our choices for components. More than once I've auditioned components which seem to over-emphasize detail, but at the sacrifice of more believable tonality. I pass on those since I prefer the latter.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: Are you a tone guy or a details-retrieval guy?, posted on March 25, 2017 at 18:29:27
ejman
Audiophile

Posts: 403
Location: SW Oregon
Joined: October 3, 2006
 When I go to listen to live music (A symphony or Jazz) I don't really hear a lot of detail. I don't hear chair squeaks, hyper precise location of individual instruments - as far as I'm concerned that stuff is just an artifact of high detail enhanced components- an interesting circus act but not really real reproduction of music. What I hear when I go to a live concert is lots of tone a - warm enveloping event. I try to reproduce that in my home to the extent possible. For me that means tubes and Magneplanars. YMMV.

 

RE: Are you a tone guy or a details-retrieval guy?, posted on March 26, 2017 at 06:51:15
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15519
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 For me it is details-retrieval, as there is so much data, buried in both LP/CD/SACD discs. It would be a shame to not extract every single nuance.

 

Agreed (nt), posted on March 26, 2017 at 07:37:13
Jack G
Audiophile

Posts: 9740
Joined: September 24, 1999
 .

 

Neither--I'm a pitch guy, posted on March 26, 2017 at 08:03:49
BillH
Audiophile

Posts: 3913
Location: Baton Rouge
Joined: December 23, 1999
 Because I have near-perfect pitch. I suppose you could say that's tone, but I think it's something else. I can't relate it to music reproduction electronics, but Linn seems to place special emphasis on it.

 

RE: Are you a tone guy or a details-retrieval guy?, posted on March 27, 2017 at 00:25:46
gordguide
Audiophile

Posts: 302
Joined: January 20, 2002
 If you're a true audiophile, you want proper tone and genuine detail retrieval, What you get with low and mid-fi, and with bad HiFi, is high order harmonic distortion, which accentuates detail (and artificially, adding detail that didn't exist in the original performance).

To a certain extent an elevated high frequency peak in a loudspeaker can also enhance the impression of detail retrieval.

Countless auditory studies show ordinary listeners prefer high order harmonic distortion upon first listen, which fades after approximately an hour of listening for most people, where listener fatigue sets in as the brain tires of the math.

So, your typical car stereo has artificially enhanced detail as that would be the preferred system for short commutes. It's also what most people would conclude "sounds better" if auditioning car audio speakers and head units or amplifiers in a store, which is a short time period activity.

In fact the store will deliberately have an audition display set up so that potential buyers must stand rather than sit comfortably. It sells typical Car Audio quality very well.

I know many audio enthusiasts who prefer components with relatively high levels of odd order harmonic distortion. They like the enhanced, but artificial, detail.

I prefer what was in the original performance, notwithstanding that the art of recording and production is a performance in itself, and added artificial detail may be a feature of such an album or song. But if it is, I want to hear it as such, and if it isn't, I want it to be absent.

 

RE: Are you a tone guy or a details-retrieval guy?, posted on March 28, 2017 at 18:08:22
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 Cant have proper timbre without Both ....

 

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