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Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x

217.138.255.186
Posted on January 5, 2022 at 06:55:49
Rocket_Powered
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 Anyone familiar or listened to the kits version of the Audio Note UK DAC? Even though the model numbers are similar between that and the AN UK version, it appears the circuit is different but should be similar. I am interested in a new DAC and am pondering on the 4.1x, which can be brought professionally assembled (link attached), am a bit lazy these days to build it. The kit form comes with a black faceplate, but a silver one is available for $100 extra - with that faceplate, the cost to build one and have one already built is not much different.

Quality parts are listed and used, but that's only part of the sound. The only AN UK product that I've ever owned is an old CDT Zero transport.

I do want a NOS R2R DAC, and would love to hear about your experience with AN UK/Kits DAC's. Thanks.

 

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Two things I noted, posted on January 5, 2022 at 07:49:25
Mike K
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 1. The unit does not use a toroidal transformer.
2. The AD1865 dac in the unit is listed as "obsolete" by the manufacturer
thereof.

I prefer toroidal transformers and current production parts in my
equipment.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 5, 2022 at 07:53:38
Palustris
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 They make a big deal about "highest level signature parts throughout including non-magnetic tantalums, Kasaiis and AudioNote copper films!" And then they put in a execrable tube like the 12AU7! Why put this crappy tube in a $3500 big buck box? It is as if the latest Ferrari supercar was released with Yugo wheels and tires.

 

The digital board is the same for all AN Dacs, posted on January 5, 2022 at 11:12:07
garymuffley
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 The differences lie in the power suooly and analog out boards among the different levels.

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 5, 2022 at 16:18:42
JRMA
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 I built the 4.1 Signature version several years ago. Really an easy build if you can solder. The digital board is pre stuffed so no chance of damaging that with amateur soldering.
My version uses a 5687 tube. Not sure why the change to 12AU7, but by many accounts it is an inferior tube to the 5687. Perhaps the transformer loading helps the 12AU7 a bit. The older 5687 board is still available in the 4.1 Signature version.
Sound is as good as I will ever need. I suppose it would be considered the AN house sound; non fatiguing, liquid, and dynamic. Plenty of output for my Bent Audio TVC and non AN SET amps. Again, the key may be the transformer output. I have several DAC's that I have collected for less critical positions, but the AN is my favorite. Admittedly my Metrum Octave (also NOS) comes very close and I could live with it forever if space ever becomes an issue. As you know these DAC's are physically large....

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 5, 2022 at 23:28:50
RGA
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 Most of my experience is with AN UK not the kits side of things but I do remember my dealer bringing in and building some kits - the 300B Kit one trounced a 300B Cary - and everything else in the store other than AN UK and Wyatech Labs.

I am a bit puzzled by some of the strange myths I see on audio boards.

The Kits were designed by Audio Note's Andy Grove and use the famed AD 1865 chip that many of the elite brands used. They have stockpiled buckets of them. AN bought most of the world stock of them and the best remaining CD transport mechanisms. They bought so many of them it forced the likes of Bryston and Sim Audio among others to cease CD player production because AN bought all the Philips L1210 (and most to the Philips Pro2LF) mechanisms. They forced the others to buy cheaper and lesser alternatives.

One of the best preamps I have auditioned for anywhere close to the money is the Audio Note M1 Phono - the line stage uses one ECC82. Fortunately, AN engineers don't suffer from blind dogma and they actually try them.

Peter Qovrtrup and Audio Note own ALL the best tubes ever produced and they stockpile over a MILLION tubes - that includes all the rare ones no one on any of these forums has ever heard of let alone actually auditioned. So if AN uses an ECC82 over a 6SL7 it's because it sounds better in that particular circuit because they also use 6SL7s in other products. The most expensive tube isn't necessarily the best tube in a given circuit. AN is also making their own tubes now.

It's very difficult for people to actually speak to your question because you get many replies from people who have never heard it or any of the other DACs or they heard one in a system at a show.

I would advise you to post the question on the Steve Hoffman forum. It's a big thread (link below).

Steve Hoffman owns an AN DAC 4.1x but folks there may be able to point out the sonic differences or parts differences. Steve is a big-name mastering engineer (Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Pink Floyd, The Eagles etc recording and mastering engineer working for many of the big audiophile recording labels like analog productions - has done many many SACDs so it was cool to see that he likes the Non-Oversampling DAC.

The Kits may not be quite as good but a production AN 4.1x DAC is likely to have a 1 in front of the 3 in terms of price. Hell, that 3 will probably change to an 8 or 9 as well. So ...

The walkthrough of all the tubes and gear I quite liked and the process to get the things built these days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsQbLymTnfA&t=5s

The kit looks excellent for the money. Especially these days with prices skyrocketing.

 

Disinformation, posted on January 6, 2022 at 04:33:29
Vinyl Valet
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 There are no 12AU7 tubes in the 4.1x kit.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

Great Post, posted on January 6, 2022 at 04:42:13
Vinyl Valet
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 Thanks for clearing things up.

I use a 4.1x in one of my main systems. Since I sell and build these kits, due to forum rules, I can't comment on the sound quality.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: Disinformation, posted on January 6, 2022 at 05:40:28
Vinyl Valet
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 But I do see that they use one 12AU7 in the assembled Professional Edition.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: Disinformation, posted on January 6, 2022 at 06:09:35
Palustris
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 Specification Block
Output tubes: 12au7 / ecc99

Power Supply 6×5, ecl82 tube AudioNote tantalum 1W resistors AN copper film

Line stage - AudioNote non magnetic 1W resistors and AudioNote copper film

DAC Board CS8414 receiver , AD1865 analog conversion

IV transformers with nickel core laminations

 

Disinformation, posted on January 6, 2022 at 06:41:30
Vinyl Valet
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 The question was about kits. You made two incorrect blanket statements. One 12AU7 is used in the assembled version only as I stated above. Two 5687 tubes are used in both 4.1x kit versions.

The second incorrect blanket statement is that 12AU7s are bad in every application. I very much doubt you have actually listened to every possible application.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 6, 2022 at 07:59:40
Rocket_Powered
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 Thanks RGA for the information. I've read your posts in the past and do know that you are a fan of AN products.

If money wasn't the issue I would love to have a production 4.1x AN UK DAC, hence my question on the kits. If, sound-wise, it's close to the production AN UK version, I'll be content.

Thanks for the link for the thread, I'll go through it. But the 4.1x kit would be the limit to spend on the DAC.

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 6, 2022 at 08:04:23
Rocket_Powered
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 Thanks for your experience. On building the kit myself, I can do it w/out issue but it will take me some days. Between that and having it built (won't comment on the 12AU7 tube - never had gear that used it), along with the silver faceplate (don't want the black), the price difference is $300 - which, when counting the hours I will spend to build it, will probably be cheaper. Besides I don't have to wait to build it.

I am looking for a DAC that you've described, but have not heard the typical AN house sound.

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 6, 2022 at 08:07:14
Rocket_Powered
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 As with the information from the other poster on the thread, I don't know if being transformer coupled affects the 'performance' of the 12AU7 tube. I do see that their topline DAC5.1x also uses the 12AU7, so I would think it can't be that bad....

 

RE: Two things I noted, posted on January 6, 2022 at 08:14:30
Rocket_Powered
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 I was also looking at the Border Patrol DAC, but isn't the DAC chip used there in the same boat - being discontinued? Production AN UK uses the same chip, so am sure if something happens, there won't be issues with replacement.

I don't know much about transformers, but I trust those used in that kit are pretty decent.

 

RE: Great Post, posted on January 6, 2022 at 08:16:40
Rocket_Powered
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 Thanks Vinyl, I'll read between the lines when you said you use the 4.1x in one of your main systems.

 

So does, posted on January 6, 2022 at 10:32:46
E-Stat
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 And then they put in a execrable tube like the 12AU7! Why put this crappy tube in a $3500 big buck box?

VTL in their line stages and phono preamps. Luke and Bea most certainly listen to their products.

 

Why all the hate for the 12au7?, posted on January 6, 2022 at 11:07:24
garymuffley
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 No it is not as linear for all the plate curves as a 6cg7 or 6sn7, but there are several points you can select that are linear, such as the operating points AN uses. There are a lot of vintage and modern tube preamps and power amps that use this "inferior" tube to produce excellent results.

It's all how you use it.

 

RE: Why all the hate for the 12au7?, posted on January 6, 2022 at 11:34:50
Story
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 Interesting you say this as a few years ago I posted a scope pic of a single 12au7 output with a sine wave at 1khz, 1volt rms out. It looked pretty dam perfect to me and not anything like the horror tales that repeatedly abound here. I should have taken it even further and shown more implementations higher & lower in voltage. Maybe some day I will but I'm sure that AN and others already have done so and use it appropriately.



 

AN DAC4.1x kit ... really?, posted on January 6, 2022 at 12:03:55
Feanor
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 Why? Sure, AN DACs and other stuff are stuffed with exotic, expensive components, meanwhile the DACs digital section is decades old, obsolete technology. Do the AN DACs really work or sound better?

Of course you're going to find people who say they do but it's based on purely subjective preference. Various SOTA DACs with amazing measurements that can be had for under $1000. Once you leave that realm you're choosing among the thousands of different distortion profiles that are out there: good luck with that.



Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: AN DAC4.1x kit ... really?, posted on January 6, 2022 at 17:01:04
Ozzy
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 "Of course you're going to find people who say they do but it's based on purely subjective preference."

Seriously?

Isn't subjective what we are all looking for? I don't listen to measurements and really don't care. I want the thing to sound good to my ears, not look good on a graph. Geezus...-...-..






Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill

 

RE: AN DAC4.1x kit ... really?, posted on January 6, 2022 at 21:57:51
RGA
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 Which Audio Note products have you auditioned? Any?



 

RE: Great Post, posted on January 6, 2022 at 22:10:59
RGA
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 The M1 is a stunningly good preamp on the entry-level end. When I first connected it up it was pretty hard to listen to coming off an M3 but after a short time it was nice and warmed up and I had it for 6 months waiting for my M6 to be built - I have largely reviewed it but am making edits before I submit.

You really do not have to spend much on AN gear. I don't know what the M1 Line preamp sells for these days with all the price increases due to Brexit and Covid but I bet it's still quite reasonable comparatively.

 

Sure: ultimately it what we like subjectively, posted on January 7, 2022 at 04:19:46
Feanor
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 Measurements are starting point however. So for example any decent DAC ought to have low jitter, adequate voltage output, high filtration of ultrasonic frequencies, etc. After that distortion "profiles" can tell you most of what you need to know about SQ -- look for moderate 2nd order harmonic distortion with lessor amounts of 3rd or 4th order, and as little higher order as you can find.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

I'm not tempted, posted on January 7, 2022 at 04:34:43
Feanor
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 AN are all far too expensive to be considered by me, even the AN kits. (I'm not a single guy like you.)

Some AN "features" such as tube rectification and exotic coupling transformers are merely gimmicks. Tube analog output just adds another layer of coloration to the sound.

I'm not against adding a little tube color but I find my preamp adds enough sitting between ultra-clean up- and downstream components. I've owned quite a few DACs over the years. Best so far -- but not the most expensive -- has been the Topping D90; it fits the "ultra-clean" description, essentially NO audible distortion. Downstream I use a essentially distortion free Purifi amp.

For further SQ improvement I'll be checking out DSP, probably Dirac Life on a miniDSP device.



Dmitri Shostakovich

 

I'm the opposite!, posted on January 7, 2022 at 06:17:39
E-Stat
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 AN are all far too expensive to be considered by me...

I thoroughly enjoyed the thirty plus year run of regularly hearing gear that was above my pay grade. It helped me further appreciate the depth of music and what is possible in an audio system. That knowledge also helped me build the most realistic sounding system that fit my budget. I can still recall how much more revealing the Burmester 969/970 were than anything else I had heard as of twenty years ago even if it was way beyond my price point at $56k.

has been the Topping D90; it fits the "ultra-clean" description, essentially NO audible distortion

Lack of musical subtlety is most certainly a distortion of the truth. Just ask the multiple inmates who left theirs behind for better.

Similarly, I ceased worshiping at the alter of THD as a teenager when I realized it is a poor god indeed. To each his own. ;)

 

RE: I'm not tempted, posted on January 7, 2022 at 06:48:47
RGA
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 So the answer is no.

You don't have to buy everything you audition. The other day I sat in an Audi - doesn't mean I am going to now have to buy it. Nor will I piss on the car because I can't (or won't) afford one.

When I owned my Honda Civic Hatchback in 1996 that is all I could afford - I wouldn't then tell everyone who also drove a Honda Civic but proceeded to drive and buy a Lexus 400 or Bugatti Veyron that they wasted money on it until I sit in one and drive the thing. With Audio you don't even have to DO anything - all you have to do is get in a car or bus - go to a shop - sit in a chair - push play (and they'll probably do that for you) and that's it. It's not terribly difficult. I went to audio dealers every single weekend for 3 solid years in the 1990s. Pretty much every product that came into the province of British Columbia I auditioned. All the best measuring gear with THD figures that were like 0.00001% full bandwidth - the top of the line Krells and Levinsons and YBAs and Classe and Brystons, Rotels, Adcoms, Threshold (Pass designed), and Naims (PRaT), Linn, Haflers, Sima Audio (and Celeste) now Sim Audio (pick a name will ya), Odyssey, Bel Canto(those awful sounding class D amplifiers)- much better now - and ARC and McIntosh etc- not much escaped me.

I always believe in auditioning all the stuff you CAN'T afford - without listening to the best systems in the world - you have no frame of reference as to what the best actually is. And you can't try everything and it may not ultimately be to your taste. I can't stand Magnepan - some of my friends like it - most don't. But it doesn't matter - enough people like them (in fact love them) and for them it's panels or die.

People ragged on me a lot for not liking Magnepan or other ribbon planars, but the funny bit is most of them moved on to some sort of "dynamic driver" speaker. Guess woofers aren't so bad after all.


Now I get it - if you are mesmerized and blown away and gobsmacked by an expensive stereo system ringing in at 6 figures you may become disheartened. Guys who love cars but can only afford a Chevy Spark might become suicidal. Guys who love fine watches but can only afford a Timex, guys who love Margot Robbie but can only attract Laura Ingraham could all want to jump off a bridge.

To me it's a challenge - you hear the best systems and you then store that away. Try to attain some of that sound for what you can afford. The ole House sounds notion - but you still need to hear the head of the household.

 

Agree completely..., posted on January 7, 2022 at 08:00:17
Ivan303
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 Started attending audio shows (CES first, the regional shows) in the late 90's and, to be honest, most of the stuff I heard I could not afford.

OK, maybe could but at what expense? Income in retirement? Do we REALLY need to make that house payment?

Thankfully, I found that I could afford decent sounding audio by just firing up a soldering iron and hitting Ebay for NOS tubes. Maybe not the best the world had to offer but certainly headed in the right direction.

I certainly never let a guy running a 'measuring site' on the net tell me that the gear he has 'measured' HAS to sound better than the stuff I could hear with my own ears just because HE 'measured' it and that's all that counts.






First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

It's not complicated: lots of people like distortion, posted on January 7, 2022 at 08:01:45
Feanor
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Relying on THD, THD+noise, or "SINAD" isn't the trick. Simply, THD can be very low but the various harmonics that comprise the overall result can be quite different. Thus a device that is pretty high in 2nd order distortion with maybe a bit of 3rd or 4th but very little higher orders, will probably sound pleasant to most people. Characteristically it will sound smooth, warm, and full-bodied.

Furthermore these low order distortions work well to disguise the shortcomings of other components and of not-so-great recordings, (IMO).

So it's OK to like sort of this sound: no need for apology.

However it isn't accurate to the recording which is what some other people want and like. Granted, some types of music are more demanding of ultimate accuracy than others. Classical orchestral and larger-scale choral music fall into this category, (IMO of course), vernacular forms including Jazz not so much.

True accuracy as opposed to euphonic sound requires the lowest possible distortion overall and especially of higher order harmonics. I attach a pic of the distortion profile of the Purifi 1ET440A amp module: this is very close to SOTA in terms of this criteria.

Measurements might not be everything, but checking out measurements can be narrow down the list of equipment you ought to audition to fulfil your musical tastes.






Dmitri Shostakovich

 

"Measurements might not be everything...", posted on January 7, 2022 at 08:12:35
E-Stat
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 including those based upon uncorrelated sine waves as you cite.

Don't know about you, but they're never on my playlist. :)

 

Well I moved on from Magneplanar to dynamic, posted on January 7, 2022 at 08:15:49
Feanor
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 So that I'll concede -- though the reason had more to do with space saving than sound. But, come to that, I'll put my dynamic up against any silver inductor-equipped AN, at least in my listening room.

I also moved on from a Pass Labs to a Purifi power amp at about 1/5 the cost. The latter is better based on the subjective sound to my ear -- better resolved, more transparent, more dynamic. Oh, and the Purifi happens to measure much better too.

More expensive doesn't necessarily equate to better by any "measure" including the subjective. So AN with its all its exotic, expensive components doesn't predispose me to think it's better in terms of SQ.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: I'm not tempted, posted on January 7, 2022 at 08:17:33
Rocket_Powered
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 I'm somewhat hesitant and reluctant (more afraid) to audition stuff that I can't afford - for fear of if I really like them. Since I know I can't afford them, all lesser stuff will be gauged against it and be frustrated :).

I emailed Brian over at AN Kits, and was told that I can certainly order the built DAC4.1x with the 5687 output board instead of the 12AU7 board.

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 7, 2022 at 09:39:53
Cpwill
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 Wow, all these replies and nobody addressed the OP's basic question. WARNING: Will Robinson! I had cervical spine surgery on Monday, so this might be rambling. I have a AN UK factory built DAC 2.1x Sig. from about 15 years ago. Tube rectified, 5687 output tubes, R2R, NOS DAC chip, no ITs. Probably 7 or 8 years ago, I built a ANK Kits DAC 4.1X Sig. (fairly easy build.). Note that at about that time Audio Note Kits in Canada changed to ANK Kits. The use fewer AN parts now, but still quality stuff. The Kit 4.1x Sig has same chips and basic typology, upgraded power supply, ITs, triple C-core OPTs, etc. SQ is very good and musical, but not light-years ahead of the UK 2.1x Sig. That said, I was perfectly happy with the Kit 4.1x Sig., until recently. Did I mention the Kit 4.1x Sig. is huge? A year ago, I got a much larger TT and had to more everything around on he rack. After trying many arrangements, the Kit 4.1x Sig. wouldn't fit. Back came the UK 2.1x Sig. with no real regrets.

Next, I got a Border Patrol DAC SEi with both USB and S/PDIF inputs for a headphone system. I like the BP so much, I tried it in my main system. Like the ANs the BP uses an ancient NOS, R2R chipset. It is tube rectified with solid state output. It has been in the main system for a few months, and I am in no rush to reinstall the UK AN2.1X Sig.

The BPs come with a 14day return option (I know, not long. So, that's my recommendation. Get the BP and listen like crazy. If it is not your taste, return it. Then, consider an AN, but the overall sound will be more similar to the BP than different. My guess is that a ANK Kits would take a bigger loss in resale than an AN UK product.

Ciao,


"Anyone who understands jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra.

Cpwill

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 7, 2022 at 12:05:04
JayD
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 I have had a AN Kit's 3.1 special edition (equivalent to a signature). I thought it sounded quite good, but nothing very special - I had other dad's that I thought sounded better - e.g. Aqua Dac La Voce. But I recently discovered that it is very sensitive to the transport used. I have used it with CD player outputs and out put from computer based sound systems (using an inexpensive usb to spdif converter). But recently I bought a Denafrips Gaia DDC and it made the AN dad sound very special indeed. I have a Chord TT2 and compared the two - they are on the same level in many ways, but the AN Dac just has a richer, more natural voicing.
So I would suggest you invest in high quality transport if you get the AN DAC or you won't get the best out of it. I suspect it is more susceptible to jitter than something like the Chord.

 

RE: I'm the opposite!, posted on January 7, 2022 at 12:11:04
Cut-Throat
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 "has been the Topping D90; it fits the "ultra-clean" description, essentially NO audible distortion

Lack of musical subtlety is most certainly a distortion of the truth. Just ask the multiple inmates who left theirs behind for better."

I own the Topping D90 and I have not 'Left it Behind', and It does Not "lack musical subtlety'... Is it the Best DAC in the World? No....

But of course if you never try another DAC, you'll never upgrade... About 90% of the DACs I have tried are very listenable....And I could live and be happy with any of them... But if I hear another DAC that I perceive as better, I'll probably buy it. Just because I can.



 

Sorry, posted on January 7, 2022 at 12:17:58
E-Stat
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 it was Abe who sold his while you relegated yours to a different system.

But of course if you never try another DAC, you'll never upgrade.

Agree! Am not a fan of lateral moves either.

 

RE: ANK is no longer affiliated with Audio Note, posted on January 7, 2022 at 19:16:42
thegage
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 They apparently can still use the name, but took aspects of the designs and have modified them to some degree. I built one of their preamps and it was very nice sounding, but the build experience totally turned me off, and I sold it soon after I finished it. If you do a search for people's experiences you will see that kits are shipped without parts or with wrong parts, that it can take weeks if not months to resolve, and that the instructions are lacking. If you are seeking something that sounds a lot like a true Audio note DAC, but without the build hassle and price tag (or the full performance), I suppose the built one is an option.

JohnK

 

RE: Agree completely..., posted on January 7, 2022 at 20:31:22
RGA
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 Everyone who buys Audio Note owned better measuring gear.

I just answered this same thing on another board - it's not only that AN measures poorly but it is "compounding" bad measurements. NOS CD replay is the WORST measuring (although not so in the time domain) digital there is.

Art Dudley said the 4.1x was the best sounding CD player he had ever heard - it's so weird that FEANOR ignores completely any and all subjective experience - AN DACs have also been in blind tests - and never lost. The AN E and J have been in blind tests and won those as well - HiFi Choice hires COMPETING manufacturers and in blind tests, the AN J won and the magazine bought the speakers as a reference. Twice!

You then run that bad measuring source into a comically bad measuring SET amp and into "middling" measuring speakers - I mean the speakers are the best measuring thing of the lot and they're not that great.

So as an Atheist science first guy - it is highly frustrating to be a measurements guru through the entire decade of the 1990s as a guy who scoffed at shitty tubes and SETs and who was a professional speakers and amps guy. I used to be on forums saying:

B&W/Genelec/PMC and Bryston must be the best because they are used at Abbey Road and other major recording studios - Music was recorded on this stuff - the measurements are the best and they sell a lot and the reviews are glowing.

So when I heard the Meishu in a pseudo blind audition with some AN E speakers that utterly trounced the hundred and hundreds of systems I heard for over 10 years it was an ear-opener.

How as it blind - I sat listening to this unknown system to Beethoven and brahms and Chopin and various rock and vocals and I looked over at this big silver box.

I say to the dealer - wow how many watts does that beat put out. He replied 8. I say wow 800 watts. He says "No...8. 8 watts."

I know Feanor thinks everyone with any money is a moron but I went back more than half a dozen times because I could NOT believe that some shitty 8-watt amp was making Bryston sound like two people banging tin cans together in comparison. I MUST have been seduced by the distortion - it must be tricking me - The SET must be creating a high enough noise floor to trick me into thinking it is "ambiance" the super bass tunefulness must be the cabinet resonance playing tricks on my ears - All this crap will be temporary and after a short while I will grow tired of the smoke and mirrors.

20 years later - still hasn't happened.

Shows are hit and miss - some cheap rooms will beat some expensive rooms. I ranked MBL and YG Acoustics dead last at one show and top 1-2 at the next show. I have ranked AN rooms highly at one show and near worst at another - and that's what I own - but it can sound pretty weak (or less diplomatically - lousy) too.

There are so many good speakers and systems out there - it's a shame Feanor has never bothered to try ANY of them. He can only afford a Topping amp and so because that's all he can afford it's the best amplifier ever built and he KNOWS it's a fact because he read about someone telling him so.

I guess when someone is a closed-minded old set in his ways boomer too poor to buy anything good you have to grasp onto self-deluded notions that anything you can't afford is overpriced conning people out of their money.

 

RE: ANK is no longer affiliated with Audio Note, posted on January 7, 2022 at 21:11:07
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Yes, I have read several complaints - Brian has tried to address it so time will tell if he has remedied the situation. Perhaps one of the reasons AN UK pulled out was because they were getting bombarded with questions.

The company used to be called Audio Note Kits now ANKits

And while you can order a built kit - that kind of defeats the purpose of selling kits!

If you are an AN fan, but simply want a more affordable option then ANKits makes sense and you would order it built for you. Still, this latter approach severely limits your customer base.

Brian actually had a write-up on the main page apologizing for the haphazard shipments of sending someone parts of their kits and weeks later sending more and weeks later another package. In it, he said they have hired a new QC person to check over the parts being sent. That was about a year or so ago so it would be interesting to see any complaints over that time to see if they have indeed fixed their issues.

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 7, 2022 at 21:20:06
Wojciech
Audiophile

Posts: 4131
Joined: June 23, 2009
 It looks like it is built with Audio Note components so it will sound close enough. The circuits are pretty much the same. PQ doesn't like those triple core OPT's but he is not impartial so one can take it with a grain of salt.
Audio Note works best within Audio Note system so if you want something more realistic and universal with stunning dynamics try Abbas Audio dacs from Ukraine. They are available on Ebay or direct. Not cheap and coming from eastern EU it will require an adjustment to colonial mind of a typical western customer.
Richard (RGA) like PQ are very versed and generally right about the sound properties of a given gear but are mostly ignorant if it comes to technicalities so you can safely ignore what they say about circuits and tubes used in given gear. They usually don't know what they are talking about and I think PQ finally got it that his best gift is a keen ear and a marketing skill. Tube "engineering" these days mostly revolves around "how we can make something cheaper and charge more for it" not to mention that everything about vacuum tube circuits was discovered 50 years ago.

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 7, 2022 at 21:31:00
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Yeah Jay - this is a bit of a problem because the better transports are no longer being made. Non-oversampling DACs don't just store data and buffer it - they require a more premium transport to get the best out of them.

I have a Cambridge Audio CXC transport - a cheap but good for the money unit. It's fine for my 0.1X DAC.

But if I go to a 4.1X DAC then I will want some sort of transport that uses the Philips Pro2LF - the mechanism alone runs $500 so they are typically found in transports over $5,000.

I am somewhat debating just keeping my DAC 0.1X and Line Magnetic 502CA DAC for computer audio and buying a one-box AN player. The new CD 5.1x single-box CD player is now out which means there may be a few second-hand 4.1x models on the market as people upgrade. I might have to look at the kits too - the prices are doable as in I could do it but it's not a need.

I have already gone above where I needed to go to be happy. I justify to myself that I don't smoke, I don't drink (other than the occasional cocktail at a party), I don't own a car, and Covid may kill me tomorrow. And if I wait until I have the money - I'll be a senior citizen and my hearing won't be good enough to appreciate the stuff anymore.

I am planning to get married - so maybe I need to buy this stuff before I say I do. :)


 

RE: Disinformation, posted on January 7, 2022 at 21:33:23
Wojciech
Audiophile

Posts: 4131
Joined: June 23, 2009
 Audio Note uses 12AU7 variants in their level five gear and Kondo used it as well. It is a boutique stuff and voiced to the pleasure of its creators.
Plain 12Au7 is cheap an plentiful and that's why it is used in commercial gear. New production octal tubes are not cheap and plentiful and are more expensive to implement. Customers are listening through the ears of reviewers anyway.

 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 7, 2022 at 21:40:29
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I don't try to be an engineer so it's mostly about trying to figure out why A sounds better than B. So process of elimination. I think Peter tries to explain things to the layman. Which then infuriates engineers.

Fortunately, Peter knows that and hires qualified engineers to design the stuff that he likes. He probably should have one of the engineers come on a forum and explain the stuff - but then he's paying them to design not to be on forums. When you see the measurements you really have to work hard to see why people like it better than a bombproof DAC or amp etc. When you are in the technically losing position - the few things you have to grasp onto seem religious.

 

RE: Agree completely..., posted on January 8, 2022 at 05:03:23
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 Another reviewer besides Art Dudley prefers highly distorting products built with "cheap and plentiful" tubes. These reviewers are probably "listening through the ears of reviewers anyway."

"Simply put, it's the finest DAC I have ever heard in my system and is now my new reference."


Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

Religion? No need to resort to that, posted on January 8, 2022 at 06:11:25
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9881
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 A.k.a. self-delusion? Not necessarily.

Apparently what AN does rather well based on the testimonials of people like yourself, RGA, is to find an excellent combination of pleasant distortions.

Understanding that certain distortion sound good, (i.e. in various parlances, "natural", "organic", "liquid", "fluid", "warm", "full-bodied", etc., etc.), is key to the explaining why people like the AN sound as well as that of other various other makers.

Unfortunately most "objectivist" are not accepting the fact that many/most people like a certain amount of distortion. The failure to accept hinders the research than might explain just what types and amounts of distortion are most agreeable.




Dmitri Shostakovich

 

I was into hi-fi before you were born, RGA, posted on January 8, 2022 at 06:19:35
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9881
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 I've owned hundreds of components over the years. It's not valid to say I've never tried a variety systems -- just because I haven't own any AN for whom you've been shilling for 20+ years.

BTW, I don't own a Topping amp.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: AN DAC4.1x kit ... really?, posted on January 8, 2022 at 21:23:44
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Measurements can tell you some things about the way something might sound but it's also somewhat in isolation. How the component measures and how it will work with the preamp or integrated and the speakers.

No one holds a gun to people's heads and say - buy this Audio Note DAC for $1,800 or that one for $100,000+

I have been an Audio Note fan for a Long time - since back in 2000 or so. One of the reasons I wanted people to give them a serious effort to try them was I found it so strange that gear that measured so badly (and compounding badly) could sound more open, more neutral, clearer, faster, more transparent than SS gear that measured so much better.

It's not just that the CD players didn't try to reduce jitter, or distortion or error correct etc was that they then sent that into a SET amp which distorts with volume and into rather middling speakers.

So when I went and auditioned a system with the Paradigm 100V2 a highly regarded speaker at the time or PSB Stratus Gold i, or Energy Veritas 1.8s or Apogee Duetta Sig II, or PMC BB5s or recently ATC SCM 150s and various flagship SS amplifiers from Bricasti, Edge, Constellation, Parasound, Soulution, Krell, Levinson, etc

It's one of those things where my brain is telling me - this stuff is objectively better - you can't hide from what the graph is telling you.

But there is also what the ear is telling you. And because the ear/brain can be fooled, I had to keep trying and trying and playing and playing because eventually, the brain is going to tell my ear that it is hearing a magic show of trickery.

Art Dudley may have claimed that the CD 4.1x was the best CD player he ever heard - Oxford University-trained engineer, Martic Colloms, who formed the company Monitor Audio and was the technical guru and measurements guy before JA, claimed an Audio Note DAC to be the best sounding digital player ever made (including hi-res DACs). And he did blind level matched sessions as well.

Of course, one of the biggest names in SACD mastering (and Classical mastering as well - Steve Hoffman), all those reviewers across a wide array of magazines, composers, Award-winning recording engineers are all wrong.

Instead, we must all trust a now hearing impaired old codger who can't hear above 10khz, who has never heard a single one of their product must be taken as gospel and everyone else who bought one is either an idiot or a shill.

As B.A. Baracus would say "I pity the fool!"


 

RE: Audio Note Kits - DAC4.1x, posted on January 9, 2022 at 05:55:45
SETdude
Audiophile

Posts: 3944
Joined: January 20, 2000
 FYI, I was considering the ANK 4.1x as well as an Abbas. I don't care for upsampling etc. I stumbled on the Audial S5 from Serbia. There are few reviews and even fewer for sale used. So, I bought a transformer coupled unit, music just flows from it. I paired it with a CEC TL5 transport and I am done with digital. As always, YMMV.

A review was posted here of a prior model in 2009 paired with Shindo gear. Search Audial on this forum.

 

RE: I was into hi-fi before you were born, RGA, posted on January 9, 2022 at 16:41:44
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Yes and now your an old deef boomer yelling at everybody to get off your lawn.

I can only afford $400 item X - anyone who spends more is crazy - they're getting ripped off by charlatans. You admitted you have hearing problems - you admitted your listening room isn't good. You posted a photo - yes it most definitely isn't good - you can have the best measuring gear on the planet and that room will not provide you with good measurements ANYWAY.

You judge things you have not heard. I get that in the sense that the measurements aren't particularly great but a remotely intelligent person says let's see - look at all the reviews globally and look at some Recording engineers - recording engineers who record/master for SACD. Not some local garage band but the biggest acts past and present.

Gee maybe if these guys who work with the best-measuring equipment day in and day out for 40 years - if these guys elect to go with it - maybe it is at least worth TRYING it once before I dump all over it.

I think I give a lot of gear a fair shake - gear that I don't like I try and try again. When I bought the KEF LS-50 it was after the fourth audition. Class D was unlistenable crap for 20 years but I kept on trying it and what do you know I liked one and bought it.

As for quantity of time in high-end audio, as Indian Jones once said - "It's not the years, honey. It's the mileage."

If one is going to judge the "technologies" one has to audition the best of those technologies - preferably more than one. Not just listen to "whatever I can afford that happens to be down the block from my house."

So you look around and see what is CURRENTLY viewed as the best of the various technologies. The stuff that maybe wins an award like a KEF LS-50 or the Audio Note E/SPX AlNiCo and you make an appointment at a dealer if necessary to audition one.

Granted I have a massive advantage living in Hong Kong where every day is an audio show but better than an Audio Show because they have had months and years to set up the rooms. So I can go and listen to a Magico or the new $30,000 Paradigms or top-of-the-line Focals or B&W Nautilus or Vivid Audios with D'Agostino amps, Magnepans, Quads, King Sound or an all Audio Note system or all Einstein system or Analog Domain or top of the line ARC or Benchmark or ATC or AvantGarde or YG Acoustics etc.

Have you auditioned ANY of these top of the range products?

If I want to give SS a try I am not judging all SS on whatever is at Best Buy this week. I read forums and some magazines so if several people are banging the drum on something I will spend the effort to go and listen to it. Sometimes I agree on Wyred4Sound, sometimes I don't like Bricasti.

And yet if I am at a dealer I will still give the Bricasti another try because maybe the speakers were the problem or it just wasn't a good match.

I no longer try to comment on any piece of gear unless I have auditioned it three times in three locations with three different systems. And those three locations can't be just audio Shows 1/3 can be an audio show.

So when I find that a Quad ESL lacks dynamics it's because it exhibited that issue at a couple of shows, a couple of dealers, and a person's home - with Class PP tube amps, Class A SS amps, with class A/B very high power SS amps, with a SET amp, With class D amplifiers.

So the speaker exhibited somewhat early compression with all of them. The sounded the best with a 27-watt SET Wyatech Labs 211 integrated amp. Good luck most anyone would try that combination. Second-best was the Audio Note OTO Push-Pull. Sugden was also quite good as was Quad's own Tube amplifier (Designed by Audio Note's chief engineer Andy Grove) Quad liked Audio Note's sound so much they hired him away from Audio Note to make their anniversary amplifier.

 

Thanks all!, posted on January 10, 2022 at 08:56:19
Rocket_Powered
Audiophile

Posts: 439
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 15, 2020
 I appreciate the suggestions, comments, commentary, and personal experiences.

I will weigh my options and your suggestions and decide from there. But the initial want-list have not changed and still looking for a NOS R2R DAC, and the AN Kits DAC4.1x remains high on the list. The physical size of the unit is not an issue as I have the rack space.

 

Knowing Allen Wright and his work with tube circuits, respectfully disagree.- nT, posted on January 10, 2022 at 14:07:02
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7551
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 -!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: It's not complicated: lots of people like distortion, posted on January 10, 2022 at 17:01:37
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 "Granted, some types of music are more demanding of ultimate accuracy than others. Classical orchestral and larger-scale choral music fall into this category"

And the people who buy Audio Note are typically classical music listeners, Classical music musicians, and Classical music Recording engineers, and Classical music composers.

It's a shame you are so dogmatic and unwilling to actually try new things. I get it some people like to live in the town they grew up in and never leave their city and eat meat and potatoes for their whole life.

As someone who travels the world, and tries all kinds of foods, and new experiences bothering to listen to gear.

It's nice to see a young Tonmeister mastering classical music in live venues. Nice Audio Note speakers and amps no less. It's nice the guy has good ears - probably didn't need to read the measurements to help know what is good. If you NEED the measurements then why are you into audio? If you can't tell something is good then you should take up another hobby like model trains or photography. He explains well from 13minutes on how they record classical music.

It's sad - you really have missed out over the 20 years we've been on forums. Fortunately, a lot of people opened their ears and listened to sound and stopped reading about sound.

 

RE: It's not complicated: lots of people like distortion, posted on January 10, 2022 at 18:09:56
RV817
 you bring a lot to the table discussing audio Richard

but when you bring condescension Grace isn't one of them

I miss her

best regards,

 

RE: It's not complicated: lots of people like distortion, posted on January 11, 2022 at 00:32:59
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 He was being a dick to me. I let a few posts go by but he thinks he knows everything about everything he has NEVER tried.

I have to sum up all of my patience for the classroom. I have little left for "get off my lawn" boomers who can't admit they might possibly be wrong about anything.

I posted on a forum that I preferred an OTO to a Bryston - another poster said he heard the OTO vs a Bryston and preferred the latter - hey no problem - you came you heard you didn't like - So be it.

It's why Magazines have everything covered - nothing gets a bad review because the HE/SET and tubes will be sent to Art Dudley or Herb and me and Fred Crowder. The SS 1000 watt stuff will be sent to Fremer or JA or KR.

Generally everything those guys like I think is mostly unlistenable dredge. And if they liked what Art or Herb liked well they'd own it.

The best way to know which "camp" you're in is to at the very least try some of it. It's not like the moon is being asked fo these people. If your town doesn't have whatever is considered the best SET amplifiers (Audio Note) then maybe they sell a Line Magnetic or a Cary or if they don't have SETs maybe they sell other fine tube amps like a Shindo or Jadis or Melody Valve Audio. Something that somewhat represents some of the better examples of the technology being dumped on unheard.

I went to the trouble of listening to class D and to my surprise I enjoy it - bought some monoblocks and this was a technology that sounded like ass to me for over a decade.

I go out and listen to Emm Labs, dCS, Chord, Bricasti, and I continue to try Magnepan, and even B&W speakers that have not "done it for me."

Perhaps my patience is like a father and a child - try the broccoli kid. "Wah Wah Wah - no I read an article that says it tastes bad wah, wah wah."

Just try the damn thing and taste it for yourself.

I mean he did bother to try a Sonic Frontiers - an "okay" tube amp brand - nothing special and IMO a little too veiled compared to an Audio Note M1 preamp. But I get that people like a more coloured stereotypical tube sound like an SF over a far more neutral and transparent tube amp like an M1.

I owned a Sugden A48B SS amplifier that was more tube-sounding than Audio Note on the stereotype valve presentation front.

Back in the day two $1300 Canadian integrated amps using the same valve complement were compared back to back - Jolida 302 was warm and thick and veiled - very pleasant. The Antique Sound Lab MG1003DT was neutral transparent thin and much more SS. A case can be made for either - I would take the Jolida in that case because that's sorta why you buy a tube amp - whereas the ASL amp sorta sounded like a Rotel so just get the Rotel and you don't have to deal with the hassle of tubes.

Maybe the graphs will tell you that but not all of these amps are measured. I don't like every Audio Note amp or speaker either - it depends. This is the audio hobby - it requires "listening"

 

RE: Sure: ultimately it what we like subjectively, posted on January 11, 2022 at 05:25:08
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 Have you actually listened to a lot of different DACs? I have listened to some VERY high end DACs with nearly perfect measurements (by your standards, not mine) and they all sound very different. Not just a little bit.

Excellent measurements doesn't begin to tell you how they will sound. Some rather pedestrian measuring DACs sound better...almost all R2R DACs measure worse than the SOTA sigma/delta DACs; however, they clearly sound more "real" to a fairly large number of listeners. The output stage is also extremely important...probably than the rest of the DAC.

A 1:1 example of this was comparing my Ayon Skylla 2 DAC against an Ayon Stratos DAC. The analog tube output stage is EXACTLY the same (as is the power supply, which is also tube rectified and choke filtered). The main difference between these DACs is the digital engine. My Skylla uses the classic BB PCM1704K DAC chips (2 per channel) and a classic 8x oversampling digital filter. The Stratos uses an ESS Sabre DAC (I think 2 per channel as well) with complex filters (2 choices) and upsampling to 24/192(defeatable).

Comparing the two at my place was very interesting. With the upsampling engaged they sounded quite different with the STratos sounding less solid and sharper sounding. Turning that off and selecting the less aggressive filter the sound between the two DACs converged significantly to where they sounded quite close. However, all three of us (the Stratos owner and another friend) felt that the DAC tech shown through with the Skylla sounding more solid and grounded and the STratos a bit more ethereal. But the sound was harmonically rich in a very natural way with extremely high resolution at the same time.



 

RE: I'm not tempted, posted on January 11, 2022 at 05:28:19
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 A friend of mine has the Topping DAC...it is good for the money...that's all.

 

RE: Agree completely..., posted on January 11, 2022 at 05:59:44
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 i know a few guys who sold their AN DAC4.1 and DAC 5 specials to own the Aries Cerat Kassandra dac...however, it is still mining the same relative vein of the DAC world (R2R, NOS, transformer conversion, tube/transformer output) but with a much bigger power supply and a lot more DAC chips (mine has 8 AD1865s per channel). Probably the most dynamic and "real" sounding DAC I have heard.

Another great DAC that I now own is the Ayon Skylla 2 DAC (also the Ayon CD5s and S5 server are all similar). This uses the BB PCM1704K DACs with tube rectified and tube output stage. Extremely resolved and dynamic.

 

RE: Agree completely..., posted on January 11, 2022 at 06:10:24
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 I have had similar revelations, no long ago...SETs are my end game amps and horns, or at least high sensitivity, is my end game in speakers.

My revelations did not come from AN, however, as I struggle to like what i hear there. I would, one day, like to hear some AN amps with my speakers of choice but their full systems (at the Swiss importer and his show setups) have always left me bored.

A friend of mine had the AN OTO SE signature (the one with the double C core output trannies) and we compared it to an Ayon 32B amp (an older one made for them by MasterSound) and a KR AUdio VA350i. The AN sounded ok, certainly listenable but was behind the Ayon and far behind the KR...ok the relative new price is quite different as well. I would like to see how a Jinro fares against the KR or the Aries Cerat Genus or Ampllifon 42 SE (currently in house here). Maybe it's great but heard at the show on AN speakers...not.

Nonetheless, I am an experimenter and so like to try different SE amps when possible...my friends have various ones as well for comparison.

 

RE: Agree completely..., posted on January 11, 2022 at 07:30:46
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Morricab that's fine you came you heard you like something else. That's the end of it.

But don't you "represent" these brands as a dealer importer? In a 6 moons review, it says "This by way of preamble for e-mailer Brad Morrical: "I would like to invite you to come to Zürich to my apartment for a listen and perhaps opportunity to review a product I'm now representing in Switzerland (I have hung up my reviewing hat for the time being). I am the exclusive Swiss dealer distributor for KR Audio, a brand I believe you know fairly well. I have on hand the relatively new KR Audio VA350i
integrated amplifier." https://6moons.com/audioreviews/kraudio5/350i.html

So it's not entirely without a conflict of interest if you dump on your high sales competition and one of the biggest selling tube brands in the world to help yourself. It's kind of bad form for a dealer to do such things. It's just not cool. It's like dealers who tell customers what they own is crap and they should spend 3 times more on something you are selling. C'mon.

Since the KR is ~$14,000USD and the Audio Note OTO Phono SE Sig is $6,500 (less if it's a line only version) and is a much lower power tube amplifier I would bloody well expect the more than double the price amp to sound better. And since you sell KR - I certainly won't take your word for it.

I have not heard every amplifier from every company so I try to audition their flagship products first to see if I want to explore further.

And our past on these forums indicates that we just don't share the same taste. It's like Kal Rubinson raving about B&W - meh - sorry but no.

I have heard the Apogee Scintilla and the Duetta II/Sig and a bunch of Magnepans and several Reference 3a speakers. And I heard these "before" I knew about AN so it is not a brand bias kind of deal. I was at the dealer to buy Reference 3a until I heard the AN K beat it. Not a drubbing but clearly better sound all around. The AN E did the same with the 20.1.

So since you would likely vehemently disagree with my take on the above paragraph then it is what it is. We go down this road every year or so for what 15 years now? I audition a lot of gear - if something impresses me enough I'll go that route.

One other problem is that some dealers are much MUCH better dealers at being able to demonstrate their wares. With tube amp makers who only make tube amps then if I say I auditioned an Apogee with a Krell - the apogee fan will say - "that amp sucks you need to hear them with XYZ = which of course is only sold at 2 dealers at the other end of the planet."

I have heard Ayon at a California Audio Show and in Bangkok. They were okay but I am not sure what would get you excited about them.

I might be on board with the big KR Monoblocks I have heard - But they were quite expensive - As I recall they were around the same price as the Onkaru II monoblocks (which are mid-level 3 in AN world). ~50,000USD. I liked them - I went back a few days later and they were sold so I didn't get a chance to hear them with my own music.

I am contemplating a pair of these or the Tomei Sochu. If KR is interested they can always contact me at the magazine. I'll give almost anything a try especially if I am considering being in the market for it.


 

RE: Agree completely..., posted on January 11, 2022 at 08:00:32
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9181
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 I haven't sold KR in over 10 years. I came to sell KR after I had them for review and found them awesome (I stopped reviewing at that time...so no conflict of interest).

I wanted many times to like AN, really. Just haven't gotten there...and that's all there is to say about it.

KR Monos don't cost 50K in Europe. I think about 35K.

Aries Cerat is even better...but I represent them so I won't say more.

 

RE: It's not complicated: lots of people like distortion, posted on January 11, 2022 at 12:50:57
RV817
 you certainly don't owe me any explanation mon fr're, just an observation

I'm probably at least as guilty as the next guy!

if someone points it out that's not a problem, sort of keeps things honest

; )

with regards,

 

RE: It's not complicated: lots of people like distortion, posted on January 11, 2022 at 20:07:41
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I just grow tired of people committing libel and calling me a shill. There are folks on audio boards who constantly beat the same drum of always recommending say a particular Magnepan speaker. On another forum people always recommend Spendor or Harbeth etc.

I don't have a problem with that - they like something - they become a fan of it and nothing else will do - I don't think they're a shill getting free stuff from the manufacturer. I mean I see some Maggie fans recommending the MMG to people who want a speaker for death metal - lol.

The guy isn't a shill he just likes the way that particular speaker sounds - the Ribbon planar sound.

And yes I can be a dick too - my name is Richard after all so I have to live up to the name from time to time.

 

10-4*, posted on January 11, 2022 at 21:11:42
RV817
 I understand and even gave a mea culpa on communication vs. perception

though it's not my M.O. to flog any brand I've certainly noted positives about commercial gear from time to time

the best audio reproduction I've experienced has been home brewed tube and speaker gear and / or pro audio amps with home brew speakers or name brand panels, but being totally subjective that's neither here nor there is it?

one more observation then this thread is shelved as far as I'm concerned

I've not seen you shill AN gear per se but you're clearly a fan & not an impartial fan either ... you're not obnoxious about it and I see nothing wrong with referencing it as a baseline, but since so often perception 'is everything' of course you'll take flack for this, whether it's a fair criticism or not ... or simply being trolled. keep in mind there's more than a few denizens on forums that get wood needling a higher profile 'personality' in audio for no other reason than to raise their own profile with the other 'kids on the block' ... with age not being a barrier for that behavior in the least

so there's a few things to ponder for whatever it's worth from yet another anonymous internet poster ; ) maybe you'll take away something useful

best regards,

["if you're explaining you're losing"]

 

If you want NOS why not Audiosector?, posted on February 19, 2022 at 22:10:48
chuck55
Audiophile

Posts: 593
Joined: February 10, 2003
 It's a lot cheaper than others but do not think it performs bad. Peter is not in it for money.
I have his SPDIF DAC. Needs a good transport and switch speakers wires as polarity is inverted.

 

Surely you jest, posted on February 21, 2022 at 07:39:35
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9881
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 That Audiosector DAC can't be as good as the AN DAC 4.1. It doesn't have tube PS nor tube output, nor all those exotic and expensive components, e.g. "non-magnetic tantalums , Kasaiis and AudioNote copper films".




Dmitri Shostakovich

 

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