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Can CD-Rs make sense?

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Posted on October 26, 2021 at 18:35:58
maxim
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My CD transport (Jays Audio) easily beats my streamer (Optical Rendu) in all departments.

Shall I transfer my downloads to CD-Rs? It sounds crazy, but if bit-perfect transfers are possible ...

 

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Only if you're a caveman ;-), posted on October 26, 2021 at 19:06:02
AbeCollins
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Sure, convert your downloads bit perfect to CD-Rs. But know that if your transport sounds better than your Optical Rendu, it's not the Optical Rendu that is deficient. It's something else in that chain.



 

RE: Only if you're a caveman ;-), posted on October 26, 2021 at 19:16:52
maxim
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Hmm...- What else in the chain matters all that much before galvanic isolation?

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 26, 2021 at 19:50:32
Des
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There is a rumour posted on some sites that CD-R's can "stress" the Laser and possibly cause
the unit to degrade and fail prematurely . The reason mentions the bit depth factor with the R's differing with the commercially produced Disc.

Whether proven or not--the seed is sewn and food for thought as no one posting yet ,has sought to disprove it as bunkum.

D

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 27, 2021 at 02:44:01
PAR
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I don't want to get involved in a !what sounds better" discussion. However it is worth mentioning that CD-Rs are not recommended for archival storage. The data is not stored by embossed pits but by changes to a dye layer. The latter can degrade over time.

So if you want to do this do not destroy your files as you may find the need to make transfers again every few years. That also depends upon CD-Rs being available in a few years time.

Finally make sure that your transport can read CD-Rs. Not all can.

"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 27, 2021 at 03:20:21
cawson@onetel.com
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CD-Rs can deteriorate over time, so I can see no advantage of
"backing up" your hard drive stored music to CD-R. Better to keep at least 1 hard drive back up.

Also NEVER place a label onto CD-Rs. These cause serious sound problems after a while, although not every labelled CD-R will suffer and it may take some while. I used to borrow CDs from my local library and ripped them onto CD-R discs. Initially I put purpose-made printed round labels on them but later bought a printer that printed directly onto the CD-R. I've had problems with these directly-printed discs. Or just use a CD Marker Pen.

Best to follow everyone's advice - don't bother!

 

But can CD-Rs beat the original CDs? Nt, posted on October 27, 2021 at 04:04:50
Nt

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 27, 2021 at 04:16:56
cawson@onetel.com
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> My CD transport (Jays Audio) easily beats my streamer (Optical Rendu) in all departments.

I'd first look at getting a better streamer. I'm not familiar with the Rendo but perhaps it's not a good match for the rest of your kit - or perhaps just not good! Unfortunately you don't list your kit on your profile - that would help!

Also you don't say how your ripped your original CDs onto hard drive. Or are you streaming from Spotify, Tidal, Qobuzm etc? Peter

 

Or if you're a Troll .............. nt, posted on October 27, 2021 at 11:06:20
Cut-Throat
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nt



 

Labeling CD Info Appreciated..., posted on October 27, 2021 at 14:26:40
Jonesy
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I have some CDR discs I was getting ready to order a pack of labels for until J read your post.

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

Thank you, that's very kind! nt, posted on October 27, 2021 at 14:56:39
maxim
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You fail...., posted on October 27, 2021 at 14:57:14
AbeCollins
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"Hmm...- What else in the chain matters all that much before galvanic isolation?"

You fail to mention what all is in your audio chain. Tell us what else is in your audio chain and we'll stop assuming that your original post is just a troll.



 

With pleasure ...-, posted on October 27, 2021 at 15:14:06
maxim
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[I5 Sonictransporter => System Optique / Optical Rendu] or [Jays Audio CDT] => PS Audio DS DAC => Aesthetix Callisto => ML 33h => WA Sophia 1

Shunyata power and digital cables; Cardas analog cables.

Let me know if you need more detail to share your wisdom.

 

Yes..... But.........., posted on October 27, 2021 at 16:39:49
Todd Krieger
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1. Be sure your files are all 16/44..... You will need to convert high-resolution files down to 16/44, with filtering, prior to burning..... In order to preserve fidelity.

2. You need a good burn drive..... This could be a daunting task, because a lot of good CD burners no longer work on newer computer hardware..... Be sure it's a "SATA" drive..... It also seems like Pioneer is the only burner manufacturer whose drives still go down to 4x burn speed. (I use Pioneer personally.)

3. The selection of CD-R media can be even trickier...... "Music CD-Rs" are not necessarily better than "Data CD-Rs"...... The "freshness" of the media is important as well. (Once the disc is "burned," the "freshness" no longer matters.) My personal favorite with recent media is Verbatim Data (not Music) CD-Rs. I don't find the "burn strategy" to make much difference. (I've never had much luck with Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs, in spite of the "reputation".)

4. Always burn at the slowest speed possible. Preferably no faster than 4x or 8x...... If your burner does not go slower than 16x, you may want to try something different (See [2]).

5. Try to compare the CD-R copy to the original CD..... Also listen for "noise" from the CD player itself..... If the CD-R copy makes excessive noise in the CD player (relative to the original CD), it means that the laser is working excessively hard to read the data, and different CD-R media should be tried.

 

RE: But can CD-Rs beat the original CDs? Nt, posted on October 27, 2021 at 16:46:05
Todd Krieger
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Back when CD burning was a popular practice, I thought copies in some instances sounded better than the original..... But I haven't encountered this in recent time. (If they sound close, to where they become indistinguishable, you've done well.)

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 27, 2021 at 16:48:26
Todd Krieger
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"CD-Rs can deteriorate over time, so I can see no advantage of "backing up" your hard drive stored music to CD-R."

The only time I've found this to be the case is when CD/CD-Rs are kept inside a hot car...... But for home use, I've been using CD-Rs that are over 15 years old, with no signs of deterioration.

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 27, 2021 at 16:51:48
Todd Krieger
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"However it is worth mentioning that CD-Rs are not recommended for archival storage. The data is not stored by embossed pits but by changes to a dye layer. The latter can degrade over time."

With the exception of being kept inside a hot car, I have never encountered a CD-R that has degraded over time. (I have CD-Rs over 15 years old.)

"Finally make sure that your transport can read CD-Rs. Not all can."

I've yet to encounter one that can't......


 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 27, 2021 at 16:56:56
Todd Krieger
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"There is a rumour posted on some sites that CD-R's can 'stress' the Laser and possibly cause the unit to degrade and fail prematurely ."

This happens to be a real issue..... The "test" for this is listening for noise emanating from the CD player or transport itself..... A good CD-R copy will be no noisier than a regular CD..... But in a lot of cases, the CD-R will play with excessive noise, the laser is working "harder" to read the disc..... This seems to be a function of burner and media, you'll need to find a burner/media combination that produces CD-Rs that play quietly in your CD player or transport.

 

CD-R Good......, posted on October 27, 2021 at 17:06:33
Todd Krieger
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Server bad...... [-;

 

RE: Labeling CD Info Appreciated..., posted on October 27, 2021 at 17:11:59
cawson@onetel.com
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Jonesy - It's very odd that some discs with printable paper labels sound bad and others seem OK. It's quite subtle and often takes a while to manifest itself. There's a "scratching" or "popping" sound, most noticeable in quiet sections - but it's there!

Playing some of the discs today (not played for 4-5 years when I used a Mark Levinson CDP), I find another problem when using my NAD M50.2 machine. Some tracks will stop playing mid-track although the Play icon still shows on the screen. Advancing to Next usually advances and again it may stop mid-track.

Lastly, these labels are quite difficult to apply 100% flat with no creases or bubbles. This may cause your CDP to reject them, or worse still not to spit them out. I had a purpose-made press that was pretty reliable but I'd still avoid labels at any cost. I switched to a Canon inkjet printer that includes a CD tray and CD printing software that made wonderful labels. I bought completely blank CD-Rs with a matt white top surface designed for machine printing (in packs of 100 designed for pro use), but I've not used the printer for 5 years or so as I'm now streaming my music or playing my ripped CDs from the M50.2 Peter

 

RE: Labeling CD Info Appreciated..., posted on October 27, 2021 at 18:57:07
Jonesy
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I have a small stack of printable CDR disks as well as the standard. So like yourself, actually toyed with pursuing either option.

A couple of identifying marks with a permanent Sharpie is what I have used and will stick with.

Grateful again for the info!

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

Insufficient detail...., posted on October 27, 2021 at 19:46:12
AbeCollins
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What server / player software, protocol, network topology, control point, file location, file types, file resolution, streaming service, compression type?

Regardless, I have found my computer based audio systems to be at least on par with my high end CDP / transports for around 10 years now. This includes high-end Sony, Cary, and Accuphase CDP / transports - that I sold and no longer need.

Me thinks you're doing something grossly wrong or simply don't want to believe that a computer based audio setup can sound as good as your transport.

BTW, CD-R has never been a great solution. I used them as disposable CD media in the car in ancient times when cars had CD players ;-) I wouldn't count on CD-R for archival purposes whether for audio, photos, videos, important documents, etc.


 

Thanks for that Todd--noted! nt, posted on October 27, 2021 at 22:21:14
Des
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NT

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 27, 2021 at 22:29:34
Des
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"Finally make sure that your transport can read CD-Rs. Not all can."

I've yet to encounter one that can't......


I recommend don't then buy a CEC TL0 my one spat them out with frightening regularity!

Maybe wrong choice of words--it would spin up and down couple of times and then just refuse to do

what I bought it to do.

Since long gone

Des

 

You're Welcome..., posted on October 28, 2021 at 03:20:10
Todd Krieger
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I kind of found this out the hard way..... A "noisy" playing CD-R can be disconcerting in some players.... And tend to "skip" more often.... I figured it wasn't good for the laser.... And it seems like the media that works best in a given setup has no relationship to what I've seen recommended in forums..... Although again, sometimes, it's the freshness of the media (prior to burning) that really matters.

Un-burned CD-Rs should not be stored near light sources or windows, by the way..... Ambient light is not your friend. But once the CD-Rs are burned, this is no longer an issue. The only thing that deteriorates burned CD-Rs is heat, such as what's typically encountered inside a hot car on a summer day.

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 28, 2021 at 03:48:08
cawson@onetel.com
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> But for home use, I've been using CD-Rs that are over 15 years old, with no signs of deterioration.

I agree unless the disc has had an adhesive label attached. Even HDCD can be transferred from CD to CD-R and sounds great

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 28, 2021 at 05:21:35
Todd Krieger
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I once had a CEC TL2 transport.... Although it didn't have problems with CD-Rs, it to me was disappointing when it came to sonic performance.......

 

Sure, posted on October 28, 2021 at 05:34:18
E-Stat
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that's what I use in my 2001 Honda S2000's CD changer!

 

RE: This is my experience as well., posted on October 28, 2021 at 08:38:08
I suspect the streamer as well, since I also find that the sound quality playing from my NAS drive via the bridge in the Directstream Jr is preferable to that from the Cambridge CXC transport. The difference isn't all that great, and granted the Cambridge isn't the world's greatest transport, but then I can't remember the last time I actually played a CD. If I buy a new CD, I immediately rip it to the NAS drive with dB Poweramp. As to file types, FLAC, AIFF, or WAV, it doesn't seem to matter much as to sound quality. If I'm really looking for the best sound quality the system can provide I play an LP, but that only happens during a serious listening session where I plant myself in the lazyboy in front of the system.

 

For me, posted on October 28, 2021 at 09:10:44
E-Stat
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it's not a question of superiority but equivalence using server based solutions when proper steps are taken. And the ability to instantly access any content anywhere without having to waste considerable time shuffling shiny disks to and fro is significant.

And I definitely would not use Toslink/optical since that necessarily introduces huge amounts of jitter on the order of 4 nS. Not picoseconds, but nanoseconds!

Maybe some don't hear that.

 

RE: With pleasure ...-, posted on October 28, 2021 at 09:15:02
I'm curious as to why you would even run a streamer at all with the DAC you own. Why not just install a bridge in the Directstream and call it a day? I have the Directstream Jr and am pretty well content with my digital. No, it isn't analog, but it's a good deal closer than I ever expected to get.

 

RE: For me, posted on October 28, 2021 at 09:27:35
"And the ability to instantly access any content anywhere without having to waste considerable time shuffling shiny disks to and fro is significant"

I agree completely. That ease of use cannot be overemphasized. There are people that value said convenience more highly than sound quality, as evidenced by the prevalence of the MP3 format, although I personally don't see why you have to choose between them. But MP3 also seems to be improving. It used to set my teeth on edge like chalk on a blackboard, but I find that some internet radio stations broadcasting in 128K MP3 or higher are actually okay for background. ABC Jazz broadcasts in AAC, and I find their signal to be pretty listenable as long as I keep the volume down...better than most MP3.

 

RE: For me, posted on October 28, 2021 at 09:33:34
E-Stat
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There are people that value said convenience more highly than sound quality, as evidenced by the prevalence of the MP3 format, although I personally don't see why you have to choose between them.

My digital music library is quite a mix. It is predominately 44/16, but have an increasing number of superior sounding 24 bit recordings at various sample rates and yes, a few high rate MP3 - because that is the only format available for that music.

It used to set my teeth on edge like chalk on a blackboard, but I find that some internet radio stations broadcasting in 128K MP3 or higher are actually okay for background.

I begin my mornings listening to a classical station that likely uses that resolution. And enjoy SiriusXM online for discovering new content.

 

What happened to "CDR copies have bigger pits and sound better than the Original CDs ?" nt, posted on October 28, 2021 at 10:50:25
oldmkvi
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/

 

RE: With pleasure ...-, posted on October 28, 2021 at 11:18:05
maxim
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I actually used to own Jr. and then upgraded to Sr.

Jr. had a bridge but it was quite a bit behind my microRendu streamer in terms of SQ.

My original post in this thread might have been misleading: my streamer sounds very, very good with Roon (Qobuz, Tidal, and local files) ... yet the CDT sounds even better.

 

RE: With pleasure ...-, posted on October 28, 2021 at 14:30:32
Jonesy
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I don't think it's a crazy idea to make "a couple" of CDR's from your downloaded digital files to see what they sound like played from your transport.

Have you gone the other way and copied a CD to your server, and then compared playback from your transport vs your steamer?

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

RE: With pleasure ...-, posted on October 28, 2021 at 15:00:18
maxim
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Yes, I have copied several hundred CDs when I started playing files. Then I thought they were as good, if not better.

But not anymore: physical CDs have a clear advantage in SQ in my current system.

 

RE: With pleasure ...-, posted on October 29, 2021 at 03:13:38
cawson@onetel.com
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Could interconnects have anything to do with it? Do you use the same protocol between your digital components? I guess you avoid optical, leaving coax or AES/EBU. I'm not convinced that USB is better.

 

Dimensions of reflective/non-reflective areas would have to be the same for same laser beam width, no? Nt, posted on October 29, 2021 at 04:07:09
Nt

 

Agree - SQ equivalence was the KISS goal..., posted on October 29, 2021 at 06:29:18
AbeCollins
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A music server, player sw, and DAC that sounds as good as my Accuphase or Cary CDP was the bar I set when I got started in computer audio over a decade ago. SQ equivalence wasn't difficult to achieve with a little bit of tinkering.... which isn't the same thing as piling on all the audiophile rocket science.

I started with a Mac Mini, BitPerfect + iTunes or Pure Music or Audirvana, and Toslink or Firewire to an outboard DAC. That evolved over the years to newer generation Macs, newer USB DACs, NAS storage, network streamers, and hi-res streaming services.

SQ equivalence to CDP is now a given. I don't even think about it, with even higher quality sound at times depending on the music file or stream resolution. So the low bar for me has always been SQ equivalence with CD and that didn't require rocket science to achieve even years ago.

Of course I've always kept a KISS approach as a starting point while others pile on every imaginable doodad tweak from the beginning and struggle to get it untangled for decent sound.



 

RE: Agree - SQ equivalence was the KISS goal..., posted on October 29, 2021 at 06:30:53
E-Stat
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...while others pile on every imaginable doodad tweak from the beginning and struggle to get it untangled for decent sound.

You may be aware that the micro and ultraRendu players already contain John Swenson's USB regenerator. The only tweak I employ is using a Tripp Lite ethernet isolator just before the uRendu to trap any remaining leakage currents.

 

RE: Agree - SQ equivalence was the KISS goal..., posted on October 29, 2021 at 10:09:25
AbeCollins
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"You may be aware that the micro and ultraRendu players already contain John Swenson's USB regenerator."

I may have read that a long time ago but I don't remember. I believe that includes galvanic isolation. I used my Intona USB 2.0 galvanic isolator with my Mac Mini to USB DAC but didn't find it necessary with the microRendu.

 

RE: With pleasure ...-, posted on October 29, 2021 at 13:00:58
maxim
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No I don't b/c I can't.

The streamer's output is USB, while the CDT is on AES/EBU. Which is quite common, I'd say.

 

RE: With pleasure ...-, posted on October 29, 2021 at 15:51:40
So you actually owned both? I'd be very interested to hear how you characterize their differences, although I would run the bridge, i.e. I wouldn't have a separate streamer. I had thought that I was done buying boxes, but that's the one component upgrade that I might consider. My rig is fairly revealing, so I'm confident that I'd hear the differences between them. The question is whether or not those differences are worth the rather substantial outlay required to make the upgrade.

 

RE: Can CD-Rs make sense?, posted on October 29, 2021 at 21:52:30
Des
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I have no experience with the lesser CEC's--maybe they put all their eggs in the 0 and 0X

Those do have a wonderous full presentation --with the right DAC of course!

Des

 

RE: With pleasure ...-, posted on October 30, 2021 at 03:16:05
cawson@onetel.com
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I wonder if we are getting towards the reason for sound quality difference?

I have effectively 2 streamers - one built into my all-in-one NAD M33 amp, the other in my M50.2 streamer / CDP/ music store. If I use the latter as my source, I always use its AES/EBU output to feed the amp. Perhaps you should try a streamer with AES/EBU output rather than USB. Borrow a dealer demo unit if you can.

Cool me old-fashioned, but in my view AES/EBU is a professional audio protocol, whereas USB is essentially a computer industry standard that is usually used for moving batches of data rather than a real-time continuous trickle! It can be use for audio but that's not its forte - perhaps!

 

That's pretty cool actually..., posted on October 30, 2021 at 12:30:36
Jonesy
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that you're enjoying your transport.

Aside from some decision making of pursuing CDR burning or further digital component tweaks, do you play with the upsampling option on the Jay's Audio Transport?

From some of the other correspondence in this thread I also see you are using the AES/EBU connection on the transport. Did you experiment with any of the other transport connections, like the coax?

I still purchase CD's, though on occasion I buy a download and burn a CDR for playback. My laptop is pretty crappy sounding wnd I am still having fun tweaking my CD transport. But I know I will eventually invest in a server based digital player.

Nice to read personal experiences on the different playback media here, ranging anywhere from cassette to hi res.

Funny that sometimes I'll spin vinyl for some truly glorious (Colored? Clicks? Pops?) sound and really wonder what in the world is most enjoyable.

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

Lasers get stressed for CDs, too., posted on October 31, 2021 at 06:51:29
The out-of-round condition on many CDs causes the disc to flutter and vibrate during play. The laser tracking servo system can't keep up. That's what the CD bevel machine was all about. The CD bevel machine also addressed the stray laser light problem by angling the outer edge and by using black marker on outer edge. Flutter of CD and CD-R can be reduced by careful dampening of the disc with electrical tape.

 

Did I read this right?, posted on October 31, 2021 at 19:31:15
Des
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Gathering my marbles up in wonderment--GK you mean to say you actually LIKE what Reiner's CD beveler actually does--I've stuck with this little devil since he first made them and have all my discs
done and edged--I like what the operation achieves--but don't dare discuss its benefits publicly.

Learnt that lesson in my youth-my previous thick skin took to many barrages!

Yes yes agree totally with all mentioned-I don't use electrical tape though but have lifetime supply of Kiuchi-San's MY-T Sheets.

Possibly you and Moi are the last ones out there that think all this is worthwhile.

Glory be!

Des

 

Never Heard Of That One........., posted on October 31, 2021 at 23:51:48
Todd Krieger
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Regarding the "bigger pits".............

So I cannot speculate either way.

I've come across claims of certain disc "dye" forumlations (cyanine, phthalocyanine, Super-Azo) having advantages/disadvantages, but I personally have no preference in this particular regard..... I've heard good and bad examples of each one.

 

RE: Sure, posted on October 31, 2021 at 23:53:40
Todd Krieger
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I use them in my modified 1993 Philips CDC935 CD changers........

 

We went through the worm hole and came out the other side. , posted on November 1, 2021 at 05:22:09
For the record, I used to have a bunch of those tuning sheets as well as those fabulous Monster Cable CD Rings in various colors, but the best of all is my black tape CD technique. I also subscribe to coloring the outer edge violet and the inner edge black. Black on the outer edge is a no-no. Green or turquoise on outer edge is good, too. I use a specific 3M black tape which is superior to all other black tapes by a considerable margin.

 

RE: CD-R burner speed, posted on November 1, 2021 at 05:58:24
tketcham
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I try to use burners and software that allow slower write speeds, typically 4x to 8x. I don't have proof that slower write speeds work better at forming the "bumps" pits in the film but it's been working for me. I've burned hundreds of music CDRs over the past 30 years and have only had a handful of problem CDRs show up later. I do buy good quality CDRs and take care in storing and using them.

Tom

 

RE: CD-R burner speed, posted on November 1, 2021 at 07:34:38
Todd Krieger
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I remember doing listening tests between a blank disc burned at 4x vs. an identical blank disc burned at 24x...... (Must use the same burn software and CD-ROM drive, and with blank CD-Rs from the same "batch.") There was a "dullness" to the presentation with the disc burned at the higher speed..... (The sonic degradation is very similar to that of a poorer digital optical cable relative to a good digital optical cable.) But it is subtle enough to where one would need several hours of "down time" in order to determine which was which..... I'm not sure if I'd pass an ABX test, without the "down time." (The "ABX" test would require another person playing the CDs, and randomly selecting "X". The quality of the burn software and CD-ROM drive would impact this as well.)

 

RE: CD-R burner speed, posted on November 1, 2021 at 14:04:09
tketcham
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I couldn't say I heard a difference between slow burn and fast burn, it was more about the quality of the "bumps" long-term stability of the pits written by the laser and by default, the longevity long-term stability of the data/music on the CDR. The quality of the dyes/film is probably more of a factor in longevity.

 

RE: Sure, posted on November 1, 2021 at 14:28:07
AbeCollins
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Similar use case here. I'd copy my original CDs to CD-R and toss the CD-R copies in the hot car. Some lasted but most didn't over time, but no worries as they were cheap and I had the originals.

But the bigger problem is, CD-R won't last even if stored in a cool climate controlled environment. I've had several CD-R go bad over time. Fortunately, I never used them as archival media.




 

Mine got scratched from constant shuffling ;) -nt, posted on November 1, 2021 at 14:29:44
E-Stat
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RE: We went through the worm hole and came out the other side. , posted on November 1, 2021 at 19:50:10
Des
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Gulp!--One aspect at time to digest--yes the Monster rings I recall as with the Audioquest's--I think
one or either of those would not come off without removing some of the mirrored substrate(?) from the shiny (early version CDs) surface rendering the disc unplayable --anyway I scratched those long ago.

Yes Green pen-still have some with that on Hmm Ok Reiners black Edding's a no no except for the inner and that groove indentation just out from the circle-fair enough.

Violet?-well up for anything --so will go hunting Violet pens!--

Black tape--I have some Scotch 235-it is a masking variety used by Cinematographers

What is your 3M # -is it trade Secret? and do you place it in strips/ circles /blobs--surely not complete cover of the CD??

I realise you may wish to keep aspects to yourself --fair enough if you wish I will send you AA Email with my private contacts etc.

Thank you again,

Des

 

RE: We went through the worm hole and came out the other side. , posted on November 1, 2021 at 20:27:35
bah! tweaks posted in the wrong forum?

arts & crafts for the infirm gone wild?

if you've really got a worm hole try that damn IVM horse paste AA gets spammed about, that's what it's really for

good luck!




 

RE: We went through the worm hole and came out the other side. , posted on November 2, 2021 at 02:44:21
Super 88, width 3/4" - I cut in one-inch strips, then cut each of those strips in half length-wise. Three of those thin 3/8" strips go on the disc label in radial direction, from center to near the outer edge, like spokes of a wheel, 120 degrees apart. The violet pen, I use Sharpie, you only need one inch of color at top, bottom, left and right of disc. You don't need to color the entire circumference. Black for center inner edge. Then the only thing that's missing is ...-..New Dark Matter for the tray.

 

Eeek! A Flatlander! Nt, posted on November 2, 2021 at 03:27:59
Nt

 

RE: We went through the worm hole and came out the other side. , posted on November 3, 2021 at 00:02:01
Des
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Grateful for the Instructions and item information GK--will buy try and enjoy!!

Thank you again,

Des

 

RE: Mine got scratched from constant shuffling ;) -nt, posted on November 8, 2021 at 16:50:18
Todd Krieger
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Posts: 37308
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If the innards of a car's CD changer were scratching the read side of CD-Rs, I would think they were also doing it to commercially produced CDs.......

I've never encountered this with any drawer-loading CD player or changer. I guess slot-loaded players would be prone to doing this..... (I haven't listened to CD in the car in about 20 years.)

 

Read what I posted again :), posted on November 9, 2021 at 05:29:08
E-Stat
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It's not the transport. It's the shuffling the discs in and out without cases stacked on a CD-R spindle.

 

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