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So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?

99.114.214.98

Posted on December 3, 2020 at 15:06:11
marc g.
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Cut-throat mentioned elsewhere it is a "Giant Killer", and I've certainly seen much praise for this and other models from this brand by other inmates. Just curious what DAC's it may equal or better. I've been in the NOS DAC camp (Metrum Octave) for a number of years now and while sold on it, I'm curious about the more typical DAC's that are out there, especially since the cost of admission seems to keep getting lower and lower - like with computers which I tend to see these as.


voolston - audiophile by day, music lover by night!

 

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For $129, (Amazon Prime) how good does it have to be?, posted on December 3, 2020 at 15:43:34
Ivan303
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Do giants really have to give their lives at that price?


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 3, 2020 at 21:58:09
KanedaK
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I don't know about the Topping E30, but for twice that amount, the sMSL SU-8v2 is hard to beat - if you don't mind the exciting, bright sound of ESS dac chips.
If you prefer something more rounded off and meaty, SMSL M400 and Topping D90, both with AKM chips, look like extremely good value - they might be more expensive at 899$, but my bet is you'd have to spend MUCH more to better those.

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 3, 2020 at 22:02:43
AbeCollins
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It's good but the Topping D90 at $699 is noticeably better sounding, and right up there with some DACs over $2000. I have the E30 and the D90. I prefer the E30 display but I much prefer the D90 sound.





 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 3, 2020 at 23:49:15
mrjdub33@aol.com
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Go try the Gustard A18 I preferred it to the Topping D90 as it had better highs and mids and a much more substantial sound stage, same AKM 4499 chip but far more musical in my setup.

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 4, 2020 at 02:22:43
Roseval
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E30 measurements are excellent for a $129 DAC
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/

If you want to spend more (600)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-dx7-pro-dac-and-headphone-amp-reviewed.9446/

What I do consider the heir of the famous Benchmark DAC1
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/rme-adi-2-fs-version-2-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/

The Well Tempered Computer

 

Gustard A18, X16, posted on December 4, 2020 at 10:36:20
Jon L
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Seems like the just-released Gustard X16 DAC is the new measurement darling. It's actually cheaper than A18 and I wonder how different they sound beyond the usual AKM vs Sabre signatures.

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 4, 2020 at 19:41:24
Posts: 1618
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There are many reviews of the E30 on youtube as well as the D90 and even this one comparing 5 other DAC's often considered along with the D90. How do you like your Metrum Octave?

 

No Optical Input for the Gustard DACs is a Deal Breaker for me (For TV Audio) ........nt, posted on December 5, 2020 at 08:43:08
Cut-Throat
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nt



 

RE: No Optical Input for the Gustard DACs is a Deal Breaker for me (For TV Audio) ........nt, posted on December 5, 2020 at 08:56:29
mrjdub33@aol.com
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The new Gustard A18 ships with optical and MQA , they just haven't publicly announced it, mine has them both.

Seems like they stock pile is already running low on anything with an AKM chip.

 

Glad they 'Saw the Light' .................. nt, posted on December 5, 2020 at 10:35:48
Cut-Throat
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nt



 

There seems to be a Problem in 'Gustard Land' ...................., posted on December 5, 2020 at 11:29:53
Cut-Throat
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You can read about it here in the following thread.....





 

RE: Excellent video. I watched all the way through..., posted on December 5, 2020 at 12:53:52
AbeCollins
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It simply confirms that there is no "best".

The video additionally reinforced what I like about the Topping D90 and at the opposite end of the spectrum, what I might not like in the Denafrips AeresII.

The Denafrips is described as "smooth organic" and I've owned a couple "smooth" DACs in the past that just killed the dynamics and clarity especially with large scale music - but simple female vocals or smooth jazz, no problem. I enjoy mostly rock, blues, pop.

While the Topping D90 is an energetic DAC, highly dyanmic, great clarity and detail, it is not lean or thin sounding to me as I found my Mytek and Oppo to be.

The middle ground might be the Chord. I had the very entry level Chord Mojo and it was a surprisingly nice sounding DAC. I just didn't like the colored marble user interface and the funky tiny cables and battery. Not the best match-up for a fixed home based system but I understand that the Mojo was designed primarily for mobile use.

That said, I would be more inclined to try a higher-end Chord vs any of the Denafrips R2R DACs..... just based on what I've seen in the video for comparisons.... and my past experience with so-called "smooth organic" sounding DACs.




 

RE: For $129, (Amazon Prime) how good does it have to be?, posted on December 5, 2020 at 14:10:00
marc g.
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I get your point, but I'd ask the same about a $1,000 DAC that was said to be a giant killer. I don't know what giants were being referred to when the original Benchmark DAC came out, but that thing was horrible IMO.


voolston - audiophile by day, music lover by night!

 

Agree ..................., posted on December 5, 2020 at 14:27:42
Cut-Throat
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I'm not sure what kind of gear that the reviewer uses to audition these DACs. I believe he has only used Headphones with a solid state headphone amp. -- In which case the Denafrips may have appealed to him.

Those of us that use Tube Amps are already getting the Smooth Liquid sound. Especially those of us that use SET amps, in which the more detailed DACs appeal to us.

The System Dependency is something that he never mentions.




 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 5, 2020 at 14:32:54
marc g.
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"How do you like your Metrum Octave?"

Would have to say I love it, it being the best DAC in my system to date. Compared to the Theta Pro Basic IIIa (I think that was the model) it replaced, I simply find it easier to listen to - perhaps another way of saying it is less fatiguing. My previous experience with other DACs is very limited. I once got to audition the Ack dAck, the original Benchmark unit , and a Dodson model. Despite the Ack also being a NOS DAC, it didn't seem all that different from the Theta. It was totally livable, but involved a battery and its aesthetics clashed with the rest of my system. The Benchmark was a real disappointment considering all the praise it garnered. That's the DAC that had me thinking I was really missing out and yet I couldn't get it out of my system fast enough when I did get to audition it. Clinical and sterile might be the best descriptors. The Dodson I just happened to be borrowing before the Metrum came in and I never found it any better or worse than the Theta. FWIW, the transport behind the scenes was and still is a Theta Data Basic. My choice of the Metrum came about because I simply tried to emulate the sound of a friends system that got a considerable improvement when he got the pricier Metrum Hex. Hearing the improvement of an NOS DAC (at least those by Metrum) in both his and my system is why I say I'm sold on that technology.

I've added a link to a review that I think best describes the Metrum Octave. It is a bit of a read though.

voolston - audiophile by day, music lover by night!

 

Exactly right. I agree that we are in agreement ;-), posted on December 5, 2020 at 16:47:20
AbeCollins
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"Those of us that use Tube Amps are already getting the Smooth Liquid sound. Especially those of us that use SET amps, in which the more detailed DACs appeal to us. The System Dependency is something that he never mentions."


Tube Amps: Yes, a DAC with excellent clarity, detail, dynamics, and extension are complimented nicely with smooth and liquid sounding tube amplification.

I like my D90 DAC with my Yamaha SS Integrated on my somewhat warm sounding Tannoys, but I like the D90 DAC even more driving my Rogue Cronus Magnum tube amp.

System dependency or synergy definitely come into play and IMHO you want a very transparent, extended, dynamic, fast, and clean sounding source at the very front end... unless it sounds "thin" or "lean" as I have experienced with a couple brands that also cater to pro audio. Mytek, Benchmark, and Bryston come mind. Oppo had a similarly thin sound even though they're not in the pro audio market - I don't think.

Not that I like extremes, but if I had to choose between a little warm syrup vs ice water, I'd pick warm syrup every time! ;-) But a warm smooth DAC with other warm smooth gear throughout the audio chain might be too much.




 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 7, 2020 at 19:36:08
Dawnrazor
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my 2 cents based on some of the reviews, your current dac, and the one you are looking at, you might want to look at the Schiit Modius. Sure its a bit more at $199 but I think you might dig it more.

If you look at reviews that compare say the Denefrips Ares 2, the Schiit dacs and something like the RME ADI-2, it seems that the Schitt multibit dacs are in the middle between the ladder or nos dacs and the "normal" dacs. You get the smoothness of the nos dac and the resolution of the "normal" dacs. So instead of jumping to a "normal" sound like the topping you might want to do baby steps like the Schiit. They also have a $99 modi that is supposed to be great too.

https://www.schiit.com/products/modius
https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-1


Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 8, 2020 at 01:09:32
mrjdub33@aol.com
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One thing about the Delta sigma dac's using the new AKM 4499 are the 6 selectable pcm filters not getting any real attention. After letting my Gustard A18 run in for a few weeks and getting the right cables to it, playing around with the filters has been a real revelation. You can probably make it sound like any sound you want which can be a huge benefit of inserting it into any setup and tailoring the sound to the recording. I started with the Slow /sharp default setting and since discovering just how good these filters are I've settled on the slow filter which sounds akin to the older AKM velvet sound dac's but with greater detail and depth and coherence.

 

Yes!!!, posted on December 8, 2020 at 09:53:36
blake
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The AKM 4493 in the E30 has the same filters. I've had my E30 about 3-4 weeks now. In terms of quick cycling through the filters when I first got the DAC I could not really discern much difference and it was made for difficult by the fact that I could not change filter settings from my listening position.

I had been using the #4 Filter (short Delay/slow roll off) as suggested by Paul Rigby in his youtube review of the E30 since I acquired the DAC but switched over to the #5 (Super Slow) at the suggestion of someone on another audio forum just in the past day.

A very significant difference. Much more analog sounding, particularly in terms of the highs. This setting apparently will most approximate what you might hear in a ladder DAC and is supposedly more rolled off and it may be slightly too much of a good thing-I have to live with it a bit longer and will likely switch over and compare to the #2 filter you've suggested in a few weeks; I find that listening over an extended period of time and then switching is much more preferable to quick A/B switches in terms of figuring this stuff out.

Right now there is now question I'm preferring the super slow rolloff-it simply sounds more natural and less digital to me. The #5 filter moved it closer to my analog front end in terms of presentation: without doubt, it is a clear winner with recordings that have what I consider to be a strong digital presence to them. The only question is whether it is a bit too rolled off and polite with stuff that does not have that digital glare/edge happening.

The E30 is crazy good for the money I think, although I do power it with a Linear Power Supply and a very good power cord feeding that power supply.
My table/arms/cartidges are no slouch-the E30 is a supreme bargain in my books.

 

RE: Yes!!!, posted on December 8, 2020 at 10:39:00
mrjdub33@aol.com
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Hard to believe dac's that no only measure this good can sound this good as well. The filters will definitely get more exploration time from me, good digital that sounds analog is alway the cats meow!

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 9, 2020 at 18:35:51
Dawnrazor
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Cool. Now a $130 dac can beat more expensive dacs by filters!

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 10, 2020 at 01:17:34
mrjdub33@aol.com
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Try emm!

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 11, 2020 at 20:10:18
Dawnrazor
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going to pass. Have a good dac with filters and they don't sound any different afaikt. Made some upgrades so may listen again but certainly wasn't night and day. Sabre dac with FPGA.

IF i understand things, those filters are always on right?

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 11, 2020 at 23:13:08
mrjdub33@aol.com
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Not sure about the filters on the Saber dac's but the new AKM 4499 (and sure others in there line up) have 6 with one new to the 4499 . Here/s how they are described for the A18

DAC-A18 has a total of 6 PCM digital filter types. Turning Turntable clockwise will
sequentially select in the order of SHARP——SLOW——SUPER SLOW——SHORT SHARP——LOW-d
SHOT——SHORT SLOW. Turn Turntable counterclockwise The cycle is reversed. SHARP is a fast
roll-off digital filter, which is the most common type of digital filtering. It is the most
accurate and neutral in the sense of hearing. SLOW is a slow roll-off. It has smooth out-ofband attenuation characteristics of the signal, but also because of its in-band attenuation.
The attenuation characteristic will make the sound soften; SHORT SHARP / SHORT SLOW is a
short delay version of SHARP / SLOW.
SUPER SLOW is similar to the effect of NOS. The extension at both ends is reduced, and the
intermediate frequency is naturally suitable for human voice. LOW-d SHOT is a new filter of
AKM Company, which adopts the asymmetrical pattern of front and rear ringing, and then
produces a new sense of hearing.
A18 recommends the use of SHORT SHARP digital filtering

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 15, 2020 at 20:01:52
Dawnrazor
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Yeah my dac has filters called FFL with options of fast and slow. And then IFL filters for off 50k, 60k, 70k and Off. Manual doesn't exactly explain what they do. I listened a while ago and no difference. My system is better these days but its doubtful there will be a big diff.

There is an option to convert to DSD which I usually keep selected so maybe that affects things. It lowers the volume by 10db so it makes a/bing a major pain. Maybe the toppings filters are different...

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 15, 2020 at 21:03:43
mrjdub33@aol.com
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Converting to DSD sounds like a nice option to have , I'm not sure if my Gustard will do that I'm waiting for a decent streamer with usb output to try DSD .

 

RE: So just how good is a Topping (E30 in particular) DAC?, posted on December 27, 2020 at 09:35:52
niws
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Santa Claus brought me an E30 for Christmas. Based on a brief listening session, I was initially impressed.
However after spending more time with it, I'm not sure that it's better than my Micromega Mydac. I'm using an iPhone charger to power it, which may not be a good choice. The sound is somewhat inconsistent. Some times it sounds very smooth and sometimes it sounds a bit thin and clinical.
The cables I am using to connect the E30 (Audience Ohno) cost more than the dac, but such is the development of dacs these days.
The only NOS dac I have heard in my systems was a Pro-ject Dac Box FL and the Micromega sounded better than it.

 

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