I'm about to pull the trigger on an Exasound E38 DAC - Comments, yay or nay? [nt]

Yes, Come to the Dark Side...., posted on May 7, 2017 at 21:01:15
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10583 Joined: April 12, 2002	DSD awaits.

It's only money! ;-), posted on May 7, 2017 at 21:02:44

John Elison
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For $2500 less you can buy an Oppo UDP-205 with two ES9038Pro DAC chips.

Oppo UDP-205

Are You Into Multi-Channel?, posted on May 7, 2017 at 22:00:15
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	....As opposed to two channel? If you're just into two channel, you're paying dearly for more channels than you need.

This would be for playing back computer files - almost all AIFF's, posted on May 7, 2017 at 22:10:57
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26480 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012	I wouldn't rule out the Oppo at some point in the future for disc-based playback.

Yes - that's somewhat of an attraction, believe it or not ;-), posted on May 7, 2017 at 22:14:46
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26480 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012	I DO have access to DSD via one of my universal players right now, but for file downloads, your point is well taken.

I've been a multi-channel partisan for almost two decades now, posted on May 7, 2017 at 22:19:30

Chris from Lafayette
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https://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/5425.html

RE: This would be for playing back computer files - almost all AIFF's, posted on May 7, 2017 at 22:27:33

John Elison
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I use my Oppo BDP-105D for playing AIFF's. All the hi-res 24/96 recordings of vinyl I made with my Alesis Masterlink are AIF files. My Oppo plays virtually everything digital including AIF, WAV, DSD, SACD, etc. Most of my digital is stored on USB hard drives and flash drives that plug right into my Oppo's three USB Type A ports. It can also be used for computer streaming as an external DAC from its USB Type B port. Of course, I have no experience whatsoever with the Exasound E38 DAC so maybe the new Oppo won't meet your requirements, but I use my Oppo with computer files much more often than I play discs.

Best regards,
John Elison

I understand, but I have a few other wrinkles. . . , posted on May 8, 2017 at 00:17:09

Chris from Lafayette
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. . . in the sense that my RAID drives (where my music files are stored) are sharable with my wife's computer too. The drives are physically attached to a third computer in another room. Sure, I know I could make copies of the files to use with the Oppo, but I'm used to using the iTunes database functions with Audirvana+ for the actual playback, and I've spent a considerable amount of time getting the meta information more or less the way I like it with iTunes. As I say, I still have a fair amount of discs whose files I don't plan to transfer to the computer, and it's about time to replace my disc player too, so I don't rule out the Oppo in the future.

Yay., posted on May 8, 2017 at 05:07:58
Kal Rubinson Reviewer Posts: 12436 Location: New York Joined: June 5, 2002	Welcome to the club.

Just be aware...., posted on May 8, 2017 at 08:54:34

AbeCollins
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...that Exasound uses their own proprietary driver on Mac which runs a variant of the UNIX OS. Is Exasound committed to updating their Mac driver as Apple continues to release new versions of MacOS?

Mytek was not. The Mytek Digital Stereo192-DSD DAC no longer works over USB under newer releases of Mac OS. Why? Because Mytek used their own proprietary driver which hasn't been updated. They lack the in-house expertise to update it, and they aren't willing to pay for their developer to update the Mac OS driver. How committed is Exasound to keeping their Mac driver up to date?

Also, if Exasound requires their own proprietary driver, you may want to check if their USB DACs are compatible under Linux with it's built-in USB audio driver. Not that you would necessarily run a Linux PC but many network streamers are based on the Linux OS with their own USB audio driver.

So the questions to Exasound might include:

- Are your DACs supported on Linux with the built-in Linux USB audio driver?

- Do you supply a USB audio driver for Linux?

- Are your USB DACs compatible with network streamers, most of which are based on the Linux OS?

- How committed are you to updating the Mac USB driver as Apple continues to release newer versions of its OS?

Just some thoughts and things to consider before pulling the trigger. Good luck!

RE: Just be aware...., posted on May 8, 2017 at 10:43:07

oldmkvi
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I had an Exasound E22, they supplied ASIO Drivers for Mac which worked fine.

My Mytek 192/DSD Dac Never worked with USB2, DSD had crackling, or nothing.
This goes back to Mavericks or the one before it.
I don't know why they said it wasn't compatible with El Capitan or Sierra, it was Never compatible with any Mac/USB2.
I almost sent it back, but they convinced me to get the Thunderbolt/Firewire hookup, which they said was Better than USB anyway.
With the Jumpers to lower Output level, it's OK, but I don't think I'd buy one of their new ones.
I also use the Analog Volume Control, turned all the way up.
It's the same level as Bypass, but not as clinical.
Also approved by Mytek.

I hope this wasn't Entirely Off-Topic...

Exa is in a different League than Oppo nt!, posted on May 8, 2017 at 10:44:52
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10583 Joined: April 12, 2002	/

RE: Just be aware...., posted on May 8, 2017 at 11:54:29

AbeCollins
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Not at all, you are entirely on-topic!

"I had an Exasound E22, they supplied ASIO Drivers for Mac which worked fine."

I don't doubt that. The question is, will that Exasound ASIO USB driver for the Mac be compatible if/when one updates their Mac OS? In other words, will Exasound update their driver as needed?

Mytek chose not to update their proprietary Mac driver for the Mytek Stereo192-DSD DAC rendering the USB connection to their DAC useless on newer Macs or those with updated Mac OS.

I run my Mytek over Firewire directly as my Mac has a Firewire port, so the USB driver is not an issue here. For those Macs that do not have a Firewire port, Mytek will supply free of charge a Thunderbolt-to-Firewire adapter so their DAC will run off the Mac's Thunderbolt port.

As for Mytek, none of their newer DACs require a proprietary driver on Mac so this is no longer an issue for them.

Can't say the same for Exasound. It's just something to watch out for if:

- You plan to run the Exa DAC via USB on Mac
- You plan to run the Exa DAC via USB on a Linux machine.
- You plan to run the Exa DAC via USB on a network streamer.

Thanks, Abe - yes, updates of proprietary drivers can be potential problems, posted on May 8, 2017 at 11:56:56
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26480 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012	And, certainly, it's a risk you take in assuming that any given company will even be around in a few years to update its drivers! BTW, just as an experiment, I did run LINUX on a Mac many years ago - when the very first iMacs (still using CRT's!) came out!

Kal - Thanks for your (and everybody else's) response(s) - I just ordered it [nt], posted on May 8, 2017 at 13:38:34
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26480 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

one more exasound fan, posted on May 8, 2017 at 14:46:45
rrob Audiophile Posts: 762 Location: Kansas Joined: February 7, 2010	I have an e12 (Windows 10/JRiver) connected to my headphone amp. Works great. Sounds great. George provides excellent customer service.

RE: It's only money! ;-), posted on May 8, 2017 at 23:07:43
Ric Schultz Manufacturer Posts: 844 Joined: August 7, 2000	You can also get the $1600 LKS MH-DA004 DAC with two more expensive and higher performing ESS9038 DACs in parallel (equivalent to 32 9028 DAC channels in parallel). A single 9028 (as used in the Exasound) uses 4 DAC channels in parallel. Also the LKS has fully discrete output stages....not op amps. Sounds great too! Incredible value.

Appears to be 2-channel only? I need multi-channel [nt], posted on May 8, 2017 at 23:55:09
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26480 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

RE: Appears to be 2-channel only? I need multi-channel [nt], posted on May 9, 2017 at 11:33:06

Ric Schultz
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Posts: 844
Joined: August 7, 2000

I see. I have a customer who got three modded Gustard DACs from me instead of an E38. The LKS is even better. The Exasound gives you one ESS 9028 DAC channel per channel. The LKS with its mono 9038 DACs is equivalent to 32 ESS 9028 DACs in parallel (32 times more DACs in parallel).....just another world more transparent.....then there is the discrete output stages, etc. in the LKS. You could get two LKS for the fronts and center/bass and then a cheaper Sonica DAC for surround channels for the same money as a 38.

The more expensive top of the line ESS 9038 chip is essentially four 9028 DACs in parallel. Every channel is four channels paralleled.....so four time the current output and one quarter the output impedance. Hence better signal to noise and higher dynamic range. The LKS is the only DAC in the world right now with two 9038 DACs in parallel....and it comes from China and made by people who listen and tweak. Simply amazing.

Interesting. Sorry for my na�vet�, but what would that look like?, posted on May 9, 2017 at 13:51:06
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26480 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012	How would all the DAC's be connected? And wouldn't you need one-off software to get them all to work. . . uh. . . in concert? Also, wouldn't the build quality of the Exasound (made in Canada) be possibly more reliable than the LKS (made in China)? How long has LKS been around and what are the reports about their products' long-term reliability?

A lot of HQ users have complained that the most recent, posted on May 9, 2017 at 16:42:45
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10583 Joined: April 12, 2002	Windows Update has broken HQ, crashes now. Computer Audio isn't for the faint of heart!

Well. . . Windows. . . [nt] ;-), posted on May 9, 2017 at 18:39:59
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26480 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

Mac doesn't support DSD above DSD256, even with Exa, posted on May 9, 2017 at 21:37:53
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10583 Joined: April 12, 2002	ASIO Drivers. Windows will do DSD512. I think they are going back to earlier Windows Versions for HQ. And AV+ lacks the Direct Mode in Mac Sierra. I'm surprised you haven't come across that on your Computer. Personally, I'm OK with DSD 128 in any event.

RE: Mac doesn't support DSD above DSD256, even with Exa, posted on May 10, 2017 at 01:05:09
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46302 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I never found DSD to be very important for my listening pleasure. I have been totally satisfied with most of my redbook CD rips and 24/96 PCM downloads. Have they still not fixed AV+ Direct Mode on Sierra? I like AV+ a lot but I've been using Roon lately. HQPlayer is fun but it's also a CPU hog depending on what type of upsampling you're doing.

I have been totally satisfied with most of my redbook CD rips , posted on May 10, 2017 at 06:23:37
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	and this explains your quirky views about equipment, software and computer performance. Don't even try to ask me to explain. Other inmates who value quality audio will now why.

Wonder how this LKS compares to the new Audio-gd that also uses the 9038s? [nt], posted on May 10, 2017 at 08:19:08
DAVID Audiophile Posts: 763 Joined: September 26, 1999	Nt

RE: I have been totally satisfied with most of my redbook CD rips , posted on May 10, 2017 at 18:02:23

AbeCollins
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Unlike you, I enjoy ALL of my music collection most of which have been ripped from CD collected over the decades, plus my 24/96 PCM downloads.

You on the other hand have a very small music collection that you play over and over again that doesn't even require a good library manager, and this explains your quirky views about equipment, software and computer performance.

Some of us enjoy listening to music while you enjoy listening to your equipment.

fmak only rips music he plays frequently

RE: It's only money! ;-), posted on May 14, 2017 at 10:27:30
Mel Audiophile Posts: 2993 Location: New York City Area Joined: February 21, 2001	Rick, Can you output DSD to the LKS, as from an Oppo's audio HDMI output? Are there any complications in doing that? Thanks, Mel

Digital Drive

I'm about to pull the trigger on an Exasound E38 DAC - Comments, yay or nay? [nt]

217.23.11.65