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How good can a cheap $200 Chinese DAC actually be?

198.27.242.3
Posted on April 29, 2017 at 12:31:52
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001

4" x 5" and less that an inch thick, powered by any 5V1A power source, yet supposedly capable of 512 DSD using ESS' ES9028 SABRE Mobile DAC chip. Also claims to have the 2nd gen. XCore200 Xu208 XMOS chip for high sample rate USB > !2S conversion, as such 512 DSD should be possible for those with the ability to up-sample that high.

Using it to stream TIDAL from a Raspberry Pi then to the rather over-the-top headphone/pre-amp build into my Audio-GD DAC/Headphone Amp.

Currently using just a cheap 5V wall wart. Have no idea what it would sound like on better power.

Picked it up on MassDrop for lest that $200 (plus shipping a sales tax) which brought the cost of entry to $209.

Manual is so thin and in type so small that I doubt if I can read it without a magnifying glass but at least for 16/44.1 lossless FLAC from the RCA S/PDIF input the manual is not needed to get sound.

OK, not nearly as smooth and natural (bright and 'zingy' at the top end) as the Audio-GD Multi-Bit Ladder DAC I am used to being plugged into many hours per day. Bottom end and mids are OK with no grain to speak of, but this is not a sound I could live with all day. In fact, I didn't buy it for that purpose anyway, but for the office where cheap amps and speakers rule.

BUT...

Maybe better that earlier ESS based DACs I've had plugged into my headphone system? MAybe.

Supposed to have filter settings (fast vs. slow?) which I plan to mess with before I'm done.





First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

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    ...
I've got a $200 ifi Nano DSD DAC with similar capabilities..., posted on April 29, 2017 at 14:15:23
John Elison
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Posts: 23904
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 It sounds like $200 compared to other more expensive DACs I've heard. ;-)

 

RE: How good can a cheap $200 Chinese DAC actually be?, posted on April 30, 2017 at 13:12:21
bare
Audiophile

Posts: 1879
Joined: April 14, 2009
 Frankly IF using it through your Pi then even a 50$ DAC would be it's equal.
Tough to make silk purses out of Sow's ears.. Still.

 

RE: How good can a cheap $200 Chinese DAC actually be?, posted on April 30, 2017 at 13:58:34
knewton
Audiophile

Posts: 563
Location: Mid-Atlantic/Northeast
Joined: May 18, 2010
 They could be fairly good, from an objective performance standpoint. Many chip vendors have their own engineering team create what is known as a 'reference design' featuring the chip they are attempting to market, so as to reduce the barriers for potential customers to utilize their chip in a commercial product. Such designs often feature excellent measured performance, as they are intended to show the vendor's chip in it's best light.

With most of the engineering work already done for them, all some of these far east vendors need do is replicate the reference design at the lowest cost, a task at which they typically excel. None of this situation usually addresses subjective performamce, which typically involves much more product devlopment time, and therefore, cost.
_
Ken Newton

 

Yeah Sure, Because you spent so much $$, it's got to be inferior, Right ?......nt, posted on April 30, 2017 at 14:29:25
Cut-Throat
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Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 nt



 

Not so..., posted on April 30, 2017 at 19:31:33
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 The Pi/HiFi Berry Digi+ Pro S/PDIF output is the near equal to the USB output from my headless Mac Mini. Not quite, but close. With a top class DAC.

Pi vs. MacBook Air is closer, even with decent CD rips. I could live with ether in my livingroom headphone setup.

That's using either Audio-GD multi-bit ladder DAC, Master-7 with 8 PCM1704U-K, Master-11 with but 4 (plus a balanced headphone amp).

Likely not up to uRendu standards, but, according to those who have done the comparison, maybe a step up from the Squeezebox touch?

With a top-of-the-line DAC, of course. :-)







First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

My latest interest is PC motherboard audio, posted on May 1, 2017 at 09:57:41
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15168
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 Seems that a lot of these 'reference' designs are now going into the PC motherboard. I've just purchased one and I've yet to really do extensive listening but it is way better than what there was before. It should eliminate the need for external USB DAC and headphone amplifier. I say 'should' as I need to spend more time with it to really be sure.

 

RE: How good can a cheap $200 Chinese DAC actually be?, posted on May 3, 2017 at 07:28:24
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Mine was a lemon and didn't work at 192k properly. But there are cheaper ones that work very well such as the Leaf Audio 384k/dsd256 as an AV dac with volume control.

The SMSLs claim to fame is the casework but is just a pretty face.

 

RE: Not so..., posted on May 3, 2017 at 07:33:47
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 There is truth in what bare says. Perhaps yours and other MAC users share the same computer output issues.

In my experience, the spdifs from Pis and cheap others are not well designed or engineered and if these are better than your usb, then there is probably an issue with the output.

 

No truth at all in what 'bare' said......, posted on May 3, 2017 at 15:45:58
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Nor did I say that the S/PDIF of the Pi (HiFi Berry makes three different models of which I have two) bettered the USB output of either of my Macs.

What I did say is that the better of the HiFiBerry S/PDIF outputs of the Pi is very close in sound quality to the MacBook Air and near to the Mac Mini. Surprisingly so.

That would be quite a bit different from 'better'.

As far as your 'experience' in 'design or engineering', let's just say we've all had the opportunity to read your posts here for some time and so we can come to our own conclusions! ;-)




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: No truth at all in what 'bare' said......, posted on May 4, 2017 at 06:54:38
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 bare is right about your $50 output almost equalling your MAC's usb connection.

This means to us that your MAC output is not very good.

HiFi Berry or whatever, they are low end dacs.

 

RE: "HiFi Berry or whatever, they are low end dacs.", posted on May 4, 2017 at 07:25:29
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

The HiFi Berry boards are I2Ss to S/PDIF converters, not DACs. I don't have a HiFi Berry DAC.

And yes the better of the three is pretty good. As good as my Mac Mini USB output to the same Audio-GD DAC? No, but surprisingly good. MUCH better that the stock SONOS Connect playing the same ripped CD. And good enough to benefit from pairing with a good PCM1702U-K Multi-bit Ladder DAC. :-)

How good does my Mac Mini?

How would you know?







First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

How would you know?, posted on May 4, 2017 at 22:20:32
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Deduction from your, and others' posts here and elsewhere.

 

why take the risk?, posted on May 28, 2017 at 21:26:25
dave789
Audiophile

Posts: 559
Joined: September 21, 2001
 "Chinese" is not the main issue.

Is it from a reputable model from a reputable brand?

Just putting some famous parts (famous DAC chip model, famous brand capacitor, etc.) does not guarantee a good hi-fi product.

I tried some low reputation brand products with open mind in vain. (Well, there were also cases where I did not like products with high praise in hi-fi journals, even with positive prejudice.)

I find some famous "pro audio" usb interface (DAC and ADC) with Cirrus Logic chip (often considered inferior to ESS Sabre chips in hi-fi audio world) quite acceptable.

 

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