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"A Rumination Upon Audio Research, VW's Phæton, and Subaru vs. SAAB"

100.10.79.144
Posted on May 23, 2023 at 14:08:45
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 FWIW & Your Mileage REALLY Might Vary, I have shared on Positive Feedback Online some of my thoughts about the Audio Research situation.

The Marketing course I took was one of the best courses I ever took. To give the Overview from 30,000 feet, a very important distinction is between "Me" Marketing and "You" Marketing.

"Me" Marketing is something like:

"John Marks is an Industry Pioneer in high-bit-depth digital recording."

"You" Marketing is something like:

"JMR's high-bit-depth digital recordings guarantee you will enjoy Fatigue-Free Listening."

Two important points:

1) I do hope that ARC survives and prospers.

2) In view of the fact that the "GhostMeters(tm)" were announced in 2019, and the TWS Group acquired ARC in 2020, I assume that the most recent management team was saddled with a decision that some or all of them might not have agreed with.

Thanks to David Robinson for providing the soapbox.

john

 

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Any idea how much the ghost meters cost to develop &/or how much they add to the BoM? , posted on May 23, 2023 at 15:36:44
13th Duke of Wymbourne
Audiophile

Posts: 2797
Location: Orange Co., Ca
Joined: September 19, 2001
 As the high-end is fixated with milled-from-solid casework I wonder if the ghost meters are in the same cost ball-park or higher?

 

Honestly, no. It is possible that the vendor ate all the NRE in exchange for a guaranteed order., posted on May 23, 2023 at 16:21:27
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 Honestly, I have no idea, and I did not go snooping, either. It is possible that the vendor ate all the NRE in exchange for a guaranteed order. But that just renames that cost--it's almost never free.

If the concern is driving the amp into clipping, then it seems to me that a "smart" pilot light that could change color from green to yellow to red would do the trick. Or one that would blink, and then flash.

The GhostMeters are only one part of the value proposition, and of what I assume to be a disconnect between ARC's at least "generation before last" management, and likely customers. Perhaps I am wrong, but I doubt that they would have greenlighted the GhostMeters if ARC had not been hooked up with McIntosh. Remember, it was the McIntosh Experience Center in NYC--not an Audio Research Experience Center.

I can't imagine Luxman spending the money for Ghost Meters on a vacuum tube amp.

Using the ancient 1970s Shibboleth of spending half your system budget on speakers, the pictured ARC amp is part of an $80,000 system. There just aren't that many such guys left. IMHO.

And if a guy is a "Money Is No Object (or Impediment)" Buyer, then my best advice for such a guy would be to spend more, buy the darTZeel NHB-108 II, and have that be the ticket off the Merry-Go-Round.

Just a couple of months ago I challenged a different US electronics manufacturer to come out with a US-Made, $5000 balanced 50Wpc stereo power amplifier, and I pointed them in the direction of a public domain circuit, to get them started.

I don't think that can be done for tubes, but I think that a great 60Wpc tube amp should cost less than $20,000 or $22,000 (I have seen both prices quoted).

Finally, again, I hope this gets sorted out. The Bank that got nervous (and who knows how many other flurky loans are in their portfolio?) recommended that ARC hire a consultant. If anyone from ARC sees what I wrote, I hope they view it as an attempt at constructive criticism.

Which might not be that difficult, if the GhostMeters were forced on them by previous ownership and management.

Pax, Lux, et Veritas,

john

 

Well, I'll tell you (re: Subaru), posted on May 23, 2023 at 17:23:49
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16016
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016



Still not sure how Subaru managed to eat SAAB's lunch -- 'cause based on the one Subaru I've owned (and do currently own), the blandness is nearly crushing. Subaru had a reputation for being funky (as, of course, did SAAB), but the funkyness's been beaten out of them, if it was ever there. In the case of my 2019 Crosstrek (six-speed manual) what's left is a car that is under powered, handles medicocrely (is that even a word?), rides OK for a cheap car, gets mediocre fuel mileage, is comfortable enough, albeit barely -- and isn't particulaly good in snow.

It was cheap, though - and it does have respectable ground clearance (which is a plus here in mud season).


DSC_0930


all the best,
mrh

 

I worked in a foreign-car garage..., posted on May 23, 2023 at 17:58:12
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 That was probably 2005 or so.

We performed the Last Rites on quite a few early Subarus that had gone past 100,000 miles and just gave up.

I was unimpressed, but I thought I had some idea of why Subaru wagons got the reputation they did for being the whip of choice for the cool cruisers from the Isle of Lesbos.

I thought it was a combination of the practicality, and the lack of a particular image. The only car that was less likely to appeal to a guy on the make who wanted to buff up his image was... Hyundai. And there's a song that proves it. ("Debra" by Beck.)

Also, other carmakers were leaving the US--Peugeot made a nice wagon, but they priced themselves out of the market. And then folded their tent after screwing their dealers.

I think that Saturn came in as a solid second for the crowd we are talking about, because of Saturn's "No-Haggle" pricing.

I loved SAABs; I restored a model 96 2-door. But instead of trying to eat some of BMW's lunch, they should have take a hard look at why people were migrating to Datsuns and Toyotas.

BTW: Marketing trivia. Back in that time frame, Volvo's advertising was NOT NOT NOT designed to make people buy Volvo cars!!!

Volvo's advertising was designed to REINFORCE the notion that the person who had already bought a Volvo had made a very smart and sophisticated choice. The goal being, that when their Volvo is ready to trade in, they will trade it in for another Volvo, and not (assuming they have had some salary increases) for a BMW!

amb,

john

 

RE: I worked in a foreign-car garage..., posted on May 23, 2023 at 21:22:54
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15518
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 True on all accounts- JM.
I miss SAAB.

 

RE: I worked in a foreign-car garage..., posted on May 23, 2023 at 23:27:44
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Lady I worked with had a nice subaru.
And it crapped out at 60001 miles when the timing belt broke. I think it was an 'interference' design so took pistons and rods with it.
Her driving habit was to be in top gear by the end of the intersection and never went above about 2000 rpm......A real engine wrecking technique..

Wife and I had a Hyundai when they made a same-car for I think Dodge? We put 100k on it without problem and than basically gave it away. Never left us stranded, BUT it did have a steel wheel that leaked. I finally found a Hyundai dealer to look at it and they comp'd me a wheel....with a head scratch. I'm certain they though I'd 'curbed' the car and caused my own problem.

We had 2 Peugeot 504d in the family. Nice, smooth ride. Keep the oil changed and it'd go forever.
Car came with a battery out of a submarine. Same shape as a regular battery by 2x longer.....
The 504 was an acquired taste, but th 505 which came after was really nice looking.....
Too much is never enough

 

I'm not sure..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 10:43:33
Doug Schneider
Reviewer

Posts: 881
Location: North America
Joined: April 16, 2005
 Hi,

I'm not sure where you get your information from -- and just like with the nonsense you were spewing on MQA, but didn't reply to, I'm sure you won't reply here. Anyway, you appear to have misguided ideas based on a lot of guesswork, instead of actually having been there. And while I can't say I'm an expert on Audio Research, I've had experience with the company when Bill Johnson owned it and when the McIntosh Group owned it. Under the latest ownership with Trent Scruggs, I had a little bit of involvement with talking to them, but their ownership didn't last long, which is what we're seeing today.

First: "The GhostMeters are only one part of the value proposition, and of what I assume to be a disconnect between ARC's at least 'generation before last' management, and likely customers. Perhaps I am wrong, but I doubt that they would have greenlighted the GhostMeters if ARC had not been hooked up with McIntosh. Remember, it was the McIntosh Experience Center in NYC--not an Audio Research Experience Center."

Livio Cucuzza took over the industrial design with the G Series, which began as the Galileo Series (they decided to go with G on the release). In creating the G Series, he studied elements of all the previous ARC models and incorporated elements into the new series -- along with some new industrial design ideas to take the company into the future. These didn't have the Ghost Meters.

In my opinion, he did a fantastic job of mixing old with new -- and from what I could tell, the existing Audio Research employees liked it too. History and future in one. What's more, if you looked at some of the previous designs, post Bill Johnson but under McIntosh Group, but not under Cucuzza's design, they were making products that were, in my opinion, tacky.

"I can't imagine Luxman spending the money for Ghost Meters on a vacuum tube amp."

I supposed you haven't see a Luxman amp lately? Have you seen how much is spent on a meter -- and GLASS -- on a solid-state amp, which really doesn't need any meter, either? First-rate stuff, that's NOT inexpensive to do.

There seems to be this idea that the Ghost Meter costs a fortune. Well, a lot of hi-fi products cost a small fortune, including some of the Luxman stuff. But the designers put embellishments in them because people who buy at that price want something that looks the price.

But then there's the most recent ARC product, the I/50. Did you know Cucuzza designed that, under McIntosh management, but it was released under the new management. No Ghost Meters, none of the more expensive embellishments -- of course, at a much lower price.

In short, your comments give the impression that the McIntosh Group got in there and messed it all up. Quite the contrary, if you ask me. In fact, MG's involvement led to the last product ARC released, the I/50. Nothing was really done after that as far as I know. But as I said above, I don't know everything. But I have had experience with all the management cycles.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

Yes, I have seen Luxman amps..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 11:26:51
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 Yes, I have seen Luxman amps. I know they have lovely meters. But those are the kind of meters that are proven, old technology.

The transparent meters on the ARC amps are new technology, and it just makes common sense that they are a big contributor to the sub-optimal Value Proposition that ARC has presented for quite some time.

McIntosh is even worse as a Value Proposition for serious listeners, as far as I am concerned. But the reason that ARC is in Receivership (and Doug, exactly WHY is ARC in Receivership, anyway? Putin?) and McIntosh is not in Receivership, is that McIntosh has a much stronger brand image.

McIntosh gear is set dressing in Hollywood movies. ARC gear is not.

McIntosh makes huge amounts of money selling Branded Swag, such as lightboxes and clocks.

ARC does not.

I wish them well, but I would price ARC on the fire-sale basis of hard assets, and not as a going concern.

I am completely aware of the new I50, and I think its embrace of needless quasi-MCM colors was a Desperation Move. That product just does not have the functionality the younger generations want. Take a look at Jerry del Colliano's efforts to reach that demographic (link).

ciao,

john

 

RE: Yes, I have seen Luxman amps..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 11:57:58
Doug Schneider
Reviewer

Posts: 881
Location: North America
Joined: April 16, 2005
 Hi,

You obviously have a grudge with McIntosh. In terms of boutique-type high-end audio, they're not a poor value. Look at those massive monoblocks they make in the US, check out the price, then compared them to similar elsewhere. They're actually pretty reasonable -- even though they're expensive.

And, sorry, a lot of people liked the Ghost Meters -- so why not offer something unique? I have no problem with that. They got a lot of press.

Also, where does FutureAudiophile.com come from? It's not even in the conversation. Why bring it up? We have SoundStageAccess.com -- it does well for us, and goes for an affordable audience. But we have SoundStageUltra.com, too.

Finally, the comment: "needless quasi-MCM colors was a Desperation Move." Do you HATE hi-fi that much? There are a bunch of plain Chinese-made tube amps you can have for cheap. They paint the case, so what? Loudspeakers come in different colors. How in the world is that desperation? The decision on that was when McIntosh had it, well before it was sold.

Like I said, I don't know where you get your information from. But similarly, I have a friend who comes over and just, as we like to say, "says stuff" -- stuff he has no clue about. Oh, and I have NO IDEA why it's in receivership -- but I could thing of a dozen reason that are possibilities, but none that I know for sure and would not be spouting off here. If you think Ghost Meters put them in receivership, you're dreaming in Technicolor, BTW.

Doug
SoundStage!

 

As a reviewer, my experience with McIntosh was that I ..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 13:33:35
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 As a reviewer, my experience with McIntosh was that I heard a coloration that I attributed to their Autoformer.

Yes, the sound was smooth... to the point of Euphonic. Colored. Is anyone really surprised?

Harry Pearson committed many sins (that is not to say that I have not), but one good thing he did do was to draw a line in the sand about accuracy to the Absolute Sound of unamplified live music in a real acoustical space.

McIntosh is the "gear" equivalent of a Cult of Personality, and I don't go for those, regardless whether the Cult is of Obama or of Trump.

As for why ARC is in Receivership, the Occam's Razor answer is:

A) ARC had a prime lender who had a Perfected First Security Interest in ALL of ARC's business property.

B) Said lender was unhappy (to the point of feeling "Insecure," which is a legal term) with (i) ARC's lack of profitability and resultant need for a Forebearance Agreement; and (ii) ARC's failing to comply with their demand that ARC bring in a Business Consultant.

C) Thereupon, said lender made more demands.

BTW, in such situations, the lender usually wants only a Business Consultant it approves of.

So, it seems that the people who are in a position to know the most about the inner workings of ARC decided that cooperating with their prime lender before it did something more drastic, was the least-bad option.

BTW, I think people might get a kick out of the comments thread on this coverage. [LINK]

jm

 

RE: As a reviewer, my experience with McIntosh was that I ..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 14:38:25
Doug Schneider
Reviewer

Posts: 881
Location: North America
Joined: April 16, 2005
 "my experience with McIntosh was that I heard a coloration that I attributed to their Autoformer"

Ummmm... and you knew that exactly HOW? To attribute one thing to what you think it is, when it could be 1000 other things in an amplifier given all the parts, is nothing but a guess.

It's like those people who walk into an unknown system in a room and say, "Wow, those cables sound amazing."

Doug
SoundStage!

 

How about... I had auditioned in the same general time frame..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 15:32:47
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 How about... I had auditioned in the same general time frame... this was when I was writing the "A Stereo for Mr. Stevens" series in TAS, a solid-state ARC amp, I don't recall its model name, that was not as fudgy.

I also later had experiences with vacuum-tube gear that had almost none of the usual colorations. One that stuck in my memory was the Ars-Sonum from Spain.

At the end of the day, whether my educated guess was right or wrong does not matter, so please stop trying to thwack that piñata.

In the end, I sent that Fudgy McIntosh Thing back to its Mothership, and I did not review it, because I could not recommend it.

Whereas I recall that I did say some nice things in my TAS column about the McIntosh solid-state amplfier. IIRC it could have been the D110.

Are you claiming that the McIntosh piece I sent back sounded exactly the same as a Plinius SA-100, and that the McIntosh was totally NEUTRAL in all respects?

Of course not.

And if you dredge up something that HP said to the contrary, the primary reason I voluntarily left TAS was that HP was a hypocrite. He "Made Nice" with Mr. & Mrs. Dave Wilson, and as soon as they were gone, he told Scot Markwell to "get those speakers out of here and put in some real speakers."

Sad but true. The more TAS circled the drain, the more desperate he got.

ciao,

john

 

To answer my own question ... , posted on May 25, 2023 at 17:44:29
13th Duke of Wymbourne
Audiophile

Posts: 2797
Location: Orange Co., Ca
Joined: September 19, 2001
 I haven't seen these things in the flesh so I had a look on the Audio Research website. They look like bog-standard moving coil meters with the movement mounted behind the front panel. The novel bit is the edge-lit glass showing the scale - not sure how that is done but I'll assume some sort of laser engraving. So, not rocket science but, maybe, a lot of experimentation to get it right. The website does say they hired someone especially to assemble the meters - I wonder if that hourly rate is more, or less than a CNC machine?!

 

RE: How about... I had auditioned in the same general time frame..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 18:05:29
Doug Schneider
Reviewer

Posts: 881
Location: North America
Joined: April 16, 2005
 Wow, what's with all the gossip about TAS, a magazine I don't care about and has nothing to do with this. Deflection? Proof of expertise? Whatever, it's a sideline.

About: "At the end of the day, whether my educated guess was right or wrong does not matter, so please stop trying to thwack that piñata."

How can I not? If that's an "educated guess" you made, I can't imagine what an uneducated guess would look like.

You went into a review or whatever with the knowledge of an autoformer -- so a design difference -- *thought* you heard a coloration, and then automatically said that coloration, imagined or not, had to do with the autoformer, the only thing you seem to have known about the amplifier's internals. And someone is supposed to BELIEVE that, when there are how many other parts in the amplifier? And how different is the circuit design? And what might all those little or big differences account for?

Obviously, there was no education in that guess at all. From my point of view, where all this started -- the mountain of bad information about Audio Research -- you have some axe to grind with McIntosh. Or, you're like that friend of mine, who just "says stuff."

Doug


 

Toto! Don't pull back that curtain, posted on May 25, 2023 at 19:19:55
13th Duke of Wymbourne
Audiophile

Posts: 2797
Location: Orange Co., Ca
Joined: September 19, 2001
 I might lose respect for audio reviewers

:)

 

RE: How about... I had auditioned in the same general time frame..., posted on May 25, 2023 at 22:34:15
Krav Maga
Audiophile

Posts: 2353
Location: Texas
Joined: October 19, 2017
 Doug,

It's hard to argue against stream of consciousness gish gallop.



"All thoughts are prey to some beast" - Bill Callahan

"I'll be your mirror
Reflect what you are" - Lou Reed

"Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein

 

What "Bad Information"? ARC is in Receivership, is it not?, posted on May 26, 2023 at 03:44:44
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 Do you doubt that ARC's prices have gone up twice as fast as consumer prices in general?

Do you claim that the GhostMeters were cheaper than a plain metal faceplate?

Because that is what it seems you are doing.

Here's a bit of advice for you:

Perhaps it is not the best role for an "Audio Critic" to play, to be the "Sir Galahad Virtuous Defender" of certain audio brands.

In all the back-and-forth about MFSL's "Analog-gate," did you notice that Michael Fremer expressed exasperation that MFSL had not delegated the Crisis Management to HIM?

Perhaps you should not want to go THERE.

john

PS: I have not that much trouble with McIntosh. I have more trouble with their customers who think there's nothing better. Just like I have trouble with BMW owners who think there is nothing better.

 

King Straw Man, Perhaps?, posted on May 26, 2023 at 07:05:18
Doug Schneider
Reviewer

Posts: 881
Location: North America
Joined: April 16, 2005
 About the last thing I want to do is be a defender of Audio Research. You're Mr. Straw Man with stuff like that. I never said any such thing -- another deflection. But wasn't it you, in an initial post, saying that some consultant should read what you said? So was it YOU who wanted to be that consultant perhaps?

As I said in a post, I don't know exactly why they're in receivership under the current crew -- yes, we agree on that -- though I could guess about many reasons.

But I'm not going to guess publicly when I really don't know. But you? You're in there with wild conspiracy theories about Ghost Meters and multi-colored amplifiers being the culprit. Oh, and prices, too.

All these things were in place long before the takeover by the newest management. Furthermore, the same sort of strategies were put into place in Sonus Faber and McIntosh -- with wild success. The same crew members who led Audio Research up to the takeover are still in charge at those companies. And from what I can tell (I was just at Munich's High End visiting them), those brands are doing extremely well.

Why I waded into here was I saw your initial post about the Audio Research demise -- which I saw riddled with so many inaccuracies that if you told me that the sun would be setting in the evening and rising in the morning, I'd be up and looking outside just to make sure. Honestly, you should put a disclaimer on those types of posts that everything written is purely guesswork and likely not to be true.

Doug

 

Saabaru, posted on May 27, 2023 at 14:53:22
pbarach
Audiophile

Posts: 3306
Location: Ohio
Joined: June 22, 2008
 I had a 5-speed manual Saab 9-2x Aero (2005, I think), which was actually a Subaru WRX with better soundproofing, better steering, and a Saab grille. It was all wheel drive, and the turbo lag was interesting to deal with. Really enjoyed that car. JM mentioned this in his article as an Subaru-badged Impreza, but the Aero was actually a rebadged WRX.

I have had several Subaru Imprezas at times during the years since I sold the Saab. They are slow, have terrible stock sound systems, but quite roomy for their size, wonderful in the winter, and completely reliable (unless the head gasket fails--never happened to me, but others report this). Handling has improved over the last few years. Now I have a Forester, purchased just before the pandemic, and all of those attributes still apply.

 

You say "Toto," and I..., posted on May 27, 2023 at 15:46:15
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 You say "Toto," and I start singing:

"I bless the rains down in Africa... "

tee hee

john

 

Old Volvos never die . . ., posted on June 2, 2023 at 15:00:57
Brian H P
Audiophile

Posts: 1291
Location: Oregon
Joined: December 18, 2012
 . . .They just get newer, piece by piece.

That according to local singer-songwriter and expert Volvo mechanic Tom Demarest, who notes that replacement parts for practically every model ever made remain available. Last time I talked to him, he had 3 1/2 Volvos in his yard, in various stages of rebuild.

 

Peugeot, posted on June 2, 2023 at 17:02:12
DAP
Audiophile

Posts: 668
Location: Toronto
Joined: January 1, 2010
 My father had a Peugeot 404.

It was my first experience behind the wheel, it had rack and pinion steering, and was a delight to drive. But it had its challenges.

I recall driving it on country roads when it developed a radiator leak. I stopped every few miles to get some water from a creek to refill the radiator.

Two cylinders went at one time. It could still be driven on the remaining two cylinders, until my father fixed it.

It started to rust out. In about two years from new, it had completely succumbed to rust.

I still have fond memories of that car, though.

Daniel

 

Most Mac reviees I've read ended with the reviewer, posted on June 6, 2023 at 12:52:23
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10581
Joined: April 12, 2002
 buying the sample.
MC 275 has universally great reviews.
Don't understand anyone buying that Light Stuff, tho.
You sure they make millions off them?

 

That was not my recollection..., posted on June 11, 2023 at 06:48:04
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 Yes, updated versions of classic tube gear did get bought by reviewers from time to time.

But I recall back when I was writing for TAS, that McIntosh sent me a monster huge, hard to lift by one person, solid-state amp, IIRC an integrated amp, IIRC with an Autoformer, and it was murky sounding.

I cannot recall one reviewer ever buying any of McIntosh's big SS amps.

Whereas (this was during my "A Stereo for Mr. Stevens" project), given what I had set out to do, in a fit of common sense, ARC sent me one of their smaller solid-state amps, and I found it charming! A very pleasant surprise.

TAS has not uploaded my old columns, and I decluttered the print copies ages ago, but, perhaps someone remembers.

ciao,

john

 

RE: "A Rumination Upon Audio Research, VW's Phæton, and Subaru vs. SAAB", posted on June 26, 2023 at 10:22:32
FSonicSmith
Audiophile

Posts: 528
Location: Midwest
Joined: February 18, 2009
 So you wrote a piece on the Positive Feedback site and you felt the need (with the Mod's approval) to cross-promote it here on this site. That in itself speaks volumes. You want to be heard.
I agree with Doug Schneider that you are pulling conclusions out of your tuchus.
The latest line of Ref series amps, the S and M's (there might be a joke there) have features that the consumers wanted and that WZJ, were he alive, would have spit upon even as mere notions let alone fully realized; 1) Autobias, 2) relays for powering up to prevent tube rush 3) switchable pentode and triode mode. As mentioned by Doug, the casework is borrowed from the Galileo series-the previous thin metal base with a thin metal top secured by 30 or so tiny set screws was replaced by a much more solid and sturdily built base upon which the top cover slides on with far fewer screws to secure it in place. The present series of Ref S and M amps are simply more solid and rigid in terms of case construction. My point being-this is what consumers likely wanted-not what ARC necessarily wanted. ARC historically never devoted that much time or money on casework and that still for the most part holds true.
Across the spectrum of reviewers there were nothing but glowing reviews of the Ref 6 and now 6 SE preamps (the Ref 10 has been legend for some time) and the latest series of Ref amps received nothing but great reviews as well, most notably the 160M amps reviewed by S'Phile.
You wrote;
"I don't think that can be done for tubes, but I think that a great 60Wpc tube amp should cost less than $20,000 or $22,000 (I have seen both prices quoted)"
No doubt you will hedge with your definition of "great" but the ARC Ref 80S has an MSRP of $16,000 and features the very expensive Tung Sol KT150.
So why did ARC fail to be profitable? You don't know and I don't know and few outside of the inner circle do. But my two cents is that the cost of production, economies of scale, betting the farm on the KT150, and some bad decisions as to dealer relationships all played a role.
When highly respected companies with legendary products get sold, bad things happen. Look at the fates of Mark Levinson, Krell, Thiel, and countless others.
Your analogizing to cars is bizarre in general. Why did Saturn fail? Why did GM and Chrysler have to file for BR? Why is Chrysler now selling every Jeep Wrangler it can push off the production line? (my answer, fwiw, is that the public are largely lemmings and hypnotized by popular culture). Your reference in public to lesbians buying Suburus had me wondering if this was in fact the same John Marks that wrote for Stereophile until I remembered some equally bizarre comments you made that somehow passed Atkinson's editing at that publication (such as that a certain POTUS, the son of another POTUS, got a bad rap and would be remembered lovingly in history's rearview mirror).
You're an odd duck John Marks. I kind of like you based on what little I know of you. But I like odd ducks. Your post and article are sheer rubbish though. A man on a soap box indeed.

 

NOT lovingly! IIRC, I said respectfully., posted on June 26, 2023 at 15:05:49
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 One thing DJT did was to make Bush look better.

And the trope about Lesbians and Subarus is not in my view derogatory at all. It shows both practicality and lack of herd mentality. IMHO.

john

 

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