Herb Reichart - 'an elderly gentleman possessing unclear auditory abilities'

RE: Herb Reichart - 'an elderly gentleman possessing unclear auditory abilities', posted on April 9, 2023 at 11:48:30
pbarach Audiophile Posts: 3307 Location: Ohio Joined: June 22, 2008	And JA is planning to do a follow-up to look into the discrepancy between the poor measurements and Herb Reichert's ecstatic review. I have elderly hearing, and nobody should rely on my opinions of anything reproducing sounds above 12K.

RE: I don't know what's wrong with Herb Reichart, posted on April 9, 2023 at 12:08:56
Story Audiophile Posts: 10451 Location: NJ Joined: December 11, 2000	once about 20 years ago or thereabouts I bought 2 single ended mono amps on his recommendation/review. They were a waste of money. I wonder how he got his reviewer job and what kind of drugs he does

I did not look at the Mojo measurements - Ouch!, posted on April 9, 2023 at 14:19:15

13th Duke of Wymbourne
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I skimmed Herb's subjective review linked in the Archimago blog piece. Based on your comments I read further on to the measurements section - ouch, they are bad. I originally skipped them because we get used to modern DACs having exemplary measurements.
We've seen performance like this before from Audio Note, IIRC, with a great subjective review. I am OK with poor objective performance being liked as I think it probable that some artifacts are preferable (and as someone who really enjoys vinyl I am under no illusions that it is objectively superior). In assessing whether this DAC is worth $10k we should ask whether the designer has deliberately built in imperfections, developed after much experimentation, to sound preferable or are the imperfections added due to incompetance?

RE: I did not look at the Mojo measurements - Ouch!, posted on April 9, 2023 at 14:26:02

pbarach
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As I mentioned, John Atkinson posted the following as a comment to the Mojo Mystique review on stereophile.com:

"Because of the conflict between the Mojo Mystique's measured performance and its sound quality, Editor Jim Austin asked me to write a follow-up review based on my own auditioning to be published in the May issue. That follow-up, which includes additional measurements, will be appended to this website reprint once the May issue has hit mailboxes and newsstands."

FWIW - I'm not even sure that's the question, posted on April 9, 2023 at 15:54:41

mhardy6647
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i.e., "In assessing whether this DAC is worth $10k we should ask whether the designer has deliberately built in imperfections, developed after much experimentation, to sound preferable or are the imperfections added due to incompet[e]nce?"

If the designer liked the way it sounded when he/she/they breadboarded it (or whatever folks do to test a design nowadays) and/or if a potential customer likes the sound at the price point -- does pathway matter?

We can call this "voicing a DAC" if we wish, and the route to the end is (arguably) irrelevant if the end is palatable to the intended market. ;)

On the other hand, there are folks like Nelson Pass who clearly, explicitly, and deliberately design some flavor into their products. NP earned his credentials to the best of my understanding and knows what he is doing -- I won't disagree that he's probably on ethica/professional "higher ground" than someone who shakes up a bag of parts, likes the result, and then sells it (or tries to) at a premium price!

all the best,
mrh

The casework is most surprising..., posted on April 9, 2023 at 16:12:57
Doug Schneider Reviewer Posts: 881 Location: North America Joined: April 16, 2005	Give what the parts and design objectives are, I'm not sure there are any surprises in the measurements. But what is surprising is the casework for a $10,000 product. That case is for a $1000 product, if that. Not sure how some companies come up with these prices. Doug SoundStage!

John Atkinson remains a class act. Long may he prosper., posted on April 9, 2023 at 17:32:20

John Marks
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IIRC, I had to ask nicely to get John A. to make measurements of Winslow Burhoe's Direct Acoustics Silent Speaker II loudspeaker. But once he measured and listened, he said that it was "more than the sum of its parts."

My favorite part was overlay of its room response with JA's long-cherished original LS3/5As.

Fig.7 Direct Acoustics Silent Speaker II, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in JA's listening room (red trace); and of BBC LS3/5a (blue).

Nice.

john

RE: FWIW - I'm not even sure that's the question, posted on April 10, 2023 at 11:20:44

13th Duke of Wymbourne
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Just to step back, I posted because I liked the turn of phrase Archimago used to describe the reviewer and was a little shocked that he would describe a 'name' reviewer in such a manner (though he is right - either Herb has cloth ears or if a DAC this bad can sound as good as a well executed DAC then, maybe, reviews don't really matter (IMO)).

I had not read the review (my subscription lapsed and I was too lazy to renew) but there is already a follow-up by JA-classic and, if I summarize correctly, he thinks it sounds OK so it is likely that poor objective performance is good enough for our ears. And Archimago himself made great points in the comments section so there is little to add by me. Except, as an engineer myself, it is galling to see something so poorly executed served up for a premium price. My take is that NOS is what the designer likes - I have never heard it - but let's assume is does something preferable that filtering does not and the aliases don't matter (and assuming it is not the aliasing that makes it sound preferable!). To do NOS you cannot use a sigma-delta DAC so you have to use one of the old R-2R-like DAC chips that are not as linear (the one in this DAC is particularly poor) or make your own discrete one (a lot of R&D). But, maybe, the low-level linearity doesn't matter that much because we really can't hear it but the effect of NOS we can hear (maybe) so you give up one thing to get something else. I think you can call that voicing - if the designer really understands that trade off and you think it is worth $9000+. OTOH, I feel a competent designer would at least have got the jitter performance right unless they don't know or don't care and then I'd be much less inclined to pay out $9000+ for laziness/incompetence.

Note, the CH Precision take a somewhat similar path in trading-off DAC linearity (using an R-2R-like chip, though much-much better than the one in the Mojo DAC) to allow more freedom in sculpting the digital filtering (not sure if NOS is an option, but might be).

And finally we have a company like dCS who just released a DAC upgrade that costs as much as the Mojo DAC because it offers better objective AND subjective performance - so say dCS and all the reviewers. Where does that leave things?

RE: John Atkinson remains a class act. Long may he prosper., posted on April 11, 2023 at 04:16:01
John Atkinson Reviewer Posts: 4045 Location: New York Joined: November 24, 2003	Thank you, John. John Atkinson Technical Editor, Stereophile

Dunno . . . I think Herb's hearing is just fine, posted on April 11, 2023 at 12:18:33

Brian H P
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But he often seems to show a preference for somewhat "eccentric" measuring products. Tube amps being one example. Maggies another. Euphonics?

OTOH, he LOVED the little Genelec powered studio monitors, which are among the most "accurate" speakers JA has ever measured.

I know NOTHING about DACs -- I don't do streaming or downloading, so have no use for one -- but I wonder how audible the measured differences between different design approaches might even be. Would I be able to hear the difference between the $10K product under review and a better-measuring unit costing a few hundred? Would most listeners?

"where does that leave things?" De gustibus non est disputandum, posted on April 12, 2023 at 05:29:59

mhardy6647
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Yup. Folks like what they like.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

all the best,
mrh

RE: John Atkinson remains a class act. Long may he prosper., posted on April 13, 2023 at 09:30:41
DustyC Audiophile Posts: 963 Joined: November 4, 2000	I hope so! I thought he summed up the measurement vs sound quality dilemma with that Mastersound amp pretty well.

RE: John Atkinson remains a class act. Long may he prosper., posted on April 13, 2023 at 12:23:27
pbarach Audiophile Posts: 3307 Location: Ohio Joined: June 22, 2008	JA's followup response to HR's review is in the May issue of Stereophile.

RE: John Atkinson remains a class act. Long may he prosper., posted on April 14, 2023 at 04:15:40

John Atkinson
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>JA's followup response to HR's review is in the May issue of Stereophile.

Now posted at the link below.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mojo-mystique-x-se-da-pr

Excellent review. Thanks for the link (nt), posted on April 14, 2023 at 18:27:53
DAP Audiophile Posts: 668 Location: Toronto Joined: January 1, 2010

RE: Herb Reichart - 'an elderly gentleman possessing unclear auditory abilities', posted on April 15, 2023 at 09:29:34
davem1 Audiophile Posts: 275 Location: Washington, DC Metro Joined: July 16, 2012	Unfortunately, I could not find the reference to Herb Reichert in the posted link. Do you have to be signed in to locate it? Perhaps I am just inept. Something similar happened in a review of the Border Patrol DAC in 2018.

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Herb Reichart - 'an elderly gentleman possessing unclear auditory abilities'

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