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Listener and Herb's Heretic review

137.118.156.6
Posted on March 5, 2023 at 17:26:30
Ladok
Audiophile

Posts: 171
Joined: November 21, 2001
 I've been going through my old "Listener" magazines recently, and darned if I didn't find myself even more entertained and enlightened than the first time I read them. And I felt a sad nostalgia for the days when the late Art Dudley had a significant influence on my development as an audiophile, and on the audio scene in general. Well, in the new "Stereophile," there's a review by Herb Reichert in his "Gramophone Dreams" of a new horn speaker by a company called Heretic. Herb is a former "Listener" contributor, and this review was like a blast from "Listener's" past. You know, keeping the beat and playing the tune being more significant to musical enjoyment than transparency, pinpoint imaging, flat frequency response, and all that audiophile stuff. But what really got me was that this speaker is named by its maker the AD, in honor of the late Mr. Dudley. And after reading Herb's article, I would venture a guess that Audio Physic won't be placing an ad in "Stereophile" any time soon.

 

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RE: Listener and Herb's Heretic review, posted on March 5, 2023 at 17:57:06
Sibelius
Audiophile

Posts: 1364
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Curious what issue this is in?

Loved and miss Mr. Dudley's contributions (including the bunnies). I still have all my Listeners, though my collection is not complete.






 

RE: Listener and Herb's Heretic review, posted on March 6, 2023 at 06:51:44
mark.korda@myfairpoint.net
Audiophile

Posts: 1253
Location: Maine
Joined: August 16, 2011
 Hi, Sibelius said exactly what I was going to say. That was interesting stuff,thanks for the heads up...Mark K.

 

RE: Listener and Herb's Heretic review, posted on March 6, 2023 at 10:05:30
Ladok
Audiophile

Posts: 171
Joined: November 21, 2001
 It's in the April "Stereophile." Yeah, the bunnies were awesome. Also, Wilmer the cat.

 

Wide baffle fat-boy speakers, horn-loaded or not, do seem to be enjoying a resurgence, posted on March 7, 2023 at 15:51:05
Brian H P
Audiophile

Posts: 1290
Location: Oregon
Joined: December 18, 2012
 Witness the resurrected JBL L100, recent old-style models from KLH, the Andy Jones/Mo-Fi coaxials, new retro models from Wharfedale, Mission UK, etc. And of course Klipsch, Tannoy, and a few others have never stopped making them.

Those who love them seem to prefer their "richer, warmer, fuller-bodied" sound over the more precise (and sometimes rather sterile) presentation of skinny audiophile towers and dinky stand-mounts. Especially with tube amplification.

This is cool. What's old is new again. Different folks have different preferences. There's room in this hobby for all of us.

 

RE: Wide baffle fat-boy speakers, horn-loaded or not, do seem to be enjoying a resurgence, posted on March 8, 2023 at 09:56:13
Gary
Audiophile

Posts: 1294
Location: New York, NY
Joined: April 21, 2000
 Agreed. At the most recent Capitol Audio Fest I had the opportunity to hear both the MoFi Sourcepoint 10 and the Heretic 612 speakers. The 612 is the larger version of the 614 reviewed in Stereophile.

I generally liked the Sourcepoint 10 but I much preferred the Heretic. Granted there's a big difference in price in favor of the MoFi speaker. But the sound of those Heretics is what I think I'd want in my home. What's great is that both are available to us.

 

RE: Listener and Herb's Heretic review, posted on March 8, 2023 at 10:28:38
Sibelius
Audiophile

Posts: 1364
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Thanks, that issue just hit my digital subscription.

I remember the spines that, if you had the complete collection, spelled out "Wilmer says no to pot smoking FBI agents". I have no idea what he meant by that, but it's classic Dudley.

Some posters here really need a bunny!

 

RE: Listener and Herb's Heretic review, posted on March 8, 2023 at 11:06:09
Sibelius
Audiophile

Posts: 1364
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Thanks for mentioning the piece. I just finished reading it.

I've never heard the AP's, and I think Gerhard has moved on, but I do have a slim Avalon tower that I really like. It gives me the clarity that I love. I bought them long ago for a small listening room I had, which is now occupied by my youngest daughter, so I'm limited to the living room, which isn't great. Looking to remodel the house and create a better space for ME!

I do find now that I want a bigger sound so I'm compiling a list of speakers to audition. Just added the Heretic to that list. I'm not crazy about the looks, and the finish options are limited (I could always ask about a custom cherry or walnut finish) but the price seems to be a bargain (well, in the audiophile speaker world anyway).

I've got the Devore O's on the list as well, but the price for those is pretty high. I've never heard them, but a well known SET amp mfgr. told me they can be a little raggedy on the top end. Those I can at least audition locally!

 

RE: Wide baffle fat-boy speakers, horn-loaded or not, do seem to be enjoying a resurgence, posted on March 8, 2023 at 11:15:45
regmac
Audiophile

Posts: 7358
Joined: April 7, 2002
 "There is a certain scatological sound that only a horn speaker can reproduce with superb authenticity." -- J. Gordon Holt

 

RE: Wide baffle fat-boy speakers, horn-loaded or not, do seem to be enjoying a resurgence, posted on March 8, 2023 at 12:16:06
mark.korda@myfairpoint.net
Audiophile

Posts: 1253
Location: Maine
Joined: August 16, 2011
 Brian, why would anyone concerned with sound accuracy want the JBL 100's. What is the science behind the grill cover? Is it to ( cover )or muffle the sound? Is it to assist the sound? Or is it just for nostalgic looks . What's on the outside of that speaker might be better in the inside...Mark Korda

 

RE: Listener and Herb's Heretic review, posted on March 8, 2023 at 16:55:48
Ladok
Audiophile

Posts: 171
Joined: November 21, 2001
 Yes, another thing Art was so right about. For some reason, this hobby seems to attract more than its share of know-it-alls and dickheads, no amount of bunnies will console them. As he often said, this is supposed to be fun, people.

 

RE: Nothing ragged about Devore speakers, posted on March 8, 2023 at 17:11:15
Ladok
Audiophile

Posts: 171
Joined: November 21, 2001
 Maybe this will help, maybe not, but I've owned three Devore speakers, and currently own the Super 9s. I enjoyed the O/96 for several years, and I can tell you with assurance their top end is smooth and natural, not a bit "ragged" unless the associated equipment has that characteristic. I don't think I've ever heard a Devore speaker sound "ragged" on top. I think the Super 9 comparison to the 0/96 is instructive for this discussion about wide vs. narrow baffles. I like Herb's reviews and writing style, but he tends to over-simplify and generalize. The Super 9 is "narrow baffle" and yes, sounds more open and "airy" compared to the O/96. BUT...the Super 9 is also capable of power, scale and putting mucho meat on the bones of the music. I would have kept the O/96 but the room I had at the time wasn't quite large enough to let them "breathe" the way I have heard them in larger spaces. Herb said that even though the Heretics projected a large and satisfying soundscape, he was always aware of the size and dimensions of the enclosure, but that didn't bother him. I felt the same way about the O/96 in MY room, but not in a larger room, where I was not aware of music from a "box." The Heretics would probably also disappear more readily in a room larger than Herb's.

 

"I have no idea what he meant by that", posted on March 8, 2023 at 17:28:09
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 It was Art's bit of an homage to something off The Beatles Let It Be album. In studio chatter leading into George Harrison's song For You Blue, John Lennon is heard saying, "Queen says no to pot smoking FBI members".

Edit: And Wilmer (or was it Wilbur?) was Art and Janet's cat.

 

RE: "I have no idea what he meant by that", posted on March 8, 2023 at 17:51:44
Sibelius
Audiophile

Posts: 1364
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Hey thanks, I've always wondered about it. I knew Wilmer was their cat, just not about the cryptic message on the spine.

And, not that you need one, but here's some bunnies for you.



 

You're welcome, posted on March 8, 2023 at 18:12:57
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 ...and thank you too. During these turbulent times, a bunny or three never hurts.

 

RE: Nothing ragged about Devore speakers, posted on March 8, 2023 at 18:19:59
Sibelius
Audiophile

Posts: 1364
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Thanks for the comments on the DeVore's. Much appreciated from an actual owner. I'm still anxious to hear them, regardless of said mfgr's comments. He sells the Living Voice line that's also on my list. I'd be more likely to go with the O/93's myself.

Those Super Nines look great. I don't use lots of power, my two amps are a 300B (currently mothballed) and a 22 watt obscure (Linear Tube Audio) integrated. Both drive my really low eff. Avalons to the level I need, but I'd love to hear a speaker that's a little easier to drive.

The thing about the Heretics that might help in my space is the near wall placement option, I'm never going to have a large room here in my Silly Valley cracker box, no matter what we do to it.

My biggest concern in speakers is boxiness sound. That's why I love the Avalons, no hint whatsoever in any of their speakers that I've heard. I've really got to get out and listen, the DeVore dealer isn't too far away. I haven't set foot in a dealer since my long retired one closed up his shop. I'd always planned on attending our local audio show, which was supposed to be pretty good, but the pandemic ended it before I had a chance to go.

 

RE: Nothing ragged about Devore speakers, posted on March 9, 2023 at 09:20:31
Ladok
Audiophile

Posts: 171
Joined: November 21, 2001
 Avalon is one brand I've never owned, or never even heard, but I've always wanted to. They look spectacular. I did own a Living Voice tower speaker once, the one in the middle of the line, I believe. It was fine. I've owned at least 25 different speakers over the last 40 years (yeah, sounds pretty much like I'm a hopeless audiophile), including Audio Physic (the original Virgo), Pro-Ac (loved them, especially the Response 2), Kharma, Vandersteen, Magnepan (loved them too), Spendor, Harbeth...jeez, the list is endless. But in the last 10 years I've settled on Devore, they just seem to be my endpoint in what I was always striving for. In an average room, you'd probably get less boxiness with the Super 9 than one of the Os, but then, you'd lose some of that intensity you can only get with those big 10-inch drivers. I'm the same way, I like the speaker to disappear (the opposite of boxiness I guess). As far as placement near the back wall, I'd say the Super 9 or 0/93 would probably be OK, but not sure about the O/96, they just seemed to need breathing room. Good hunting.

 

RE: Nothing ragged about Devore speakers, posted on March 9, 2023 at 21:52:31
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Try an Audio Note AN J or AN E - Personally, I like them more than the 0/96 for sound quality and they cost significantly less money albeit they're not quite as flea-watt friendly - 5 watts minimin rather than 2 watts minimum sort of deal.

Also, the AN J and AN E can be placed right up against the wall or in corners.

 

Never forgot Art stating to one particular guy on a tirade "You need a SPECIAL bunny" ...., posted on March 13, 2023 at 15:01:40
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7550
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 A playboy bunny.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

Another Super Nine owner here, posted on March 13, 2023 at 20:38:07
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 I absolutely love those speakers. I cannot imagine replacing them.

I have them paired with an ST-70 (new build) and Rogue Audio RP-5 preamp. Before the ST-70 I was using a Conrad Johnson Premier 11A and before that a CJ MF2250 (solid state). The system is in a large room open to adjoining rooms and sounds fantastic. I will say that I notice even more meat on the bones with the EL34 tubes compared to the 6550s in the CJ.

They are a lively speaker that is never harsh, and they have great bass (and integrate seamlessly with a good sub or two). I'm running them without any subwoofer now, but have run them with two REL T7s before. I don't miss the subs, but they sure work well when called upon and were so easy to dial in..
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: Another Super Nine owner here, posted on March 14, 2023 at 19:59:18
Ladok
Audiophile

Posts: 171
Joined: November 21, 2001
 Glad you are enjoying them. They are able to bring out the best in just about any amp. I've used a Shindo Montille, Pass A25, First Watt sit-3, and lately the Rogue Sphinx V3 (talk about bang for the buck), all with great results. I also have an older Antique Sound Lab MGSII-5DT that makes gorgeous music, but the dang volume control is stepped and I can never get the volume just right, so I hardly ever use it. How do you like the ST-70? But back to the Super 9s, it's nice not having to think about what my next speaker should be, and just enjoy the music.

 

RE: Listener and Herb's Heretic review, posted on March 18, 2023 at 14:10:55
audioneurotica
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: Alaska
Joined: August 17, 2004
 Listener magazine was the best, it was really disappointing when it folded. Unfortunately, since Herb Reichert has had his column in Stereophile his reviews read more like a sales brochure submitted by the manufacturer. It seems like everything he listens to is downright orgasmic. Seems like his credibility is pretty thinly stretched. If you doubt what I'm saying reread a couple of his columns and try to find some actual hard-line reviewing. For you folks out there that were reading Stereophile when Gordon Holt ran it you know what I mean when when I say Holt is spinning in his grave and he is pissed.

 

Perusing this thread... not knowing about Devore speakers... check their website... , posted on March 24, 2023 at 15:47:06
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31871
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 ... including News & Cats... catalogs(!?!?)... no, actual cat(s)... VERY, VERY cool...

The speakers look very nice, too and your input is very good.

Gracious!

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

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