interesting reading against bi-wiring

RE: interesting reading against bi-wiring, posted on January 15, 2021 at 08:34:04
Mike K Audiophile Posts: 13975 Location: 97701 Joined: September 23, 1999	The first two sentences say it all. Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

biwire jumpers, posted on January 15, 2021 at 10:48:50
Jon L Audiophile Posts: 6064 Joined: April 6, 2000	"most speakers with bi-wire optionally come mounted with jumper-links of poorest construction and material" At least I can agree with this statement. Instead of biwiring, I simply make my own short jumpers using high-quality wire instead of the stock brass plates (Arggh).

In a perfect world...., posted on January 16, 2021 at 08:09:19
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	populated by perfect x-over networks, the article is correct. Ask Alon Wolf of Magico why he only has ONE pair of speaker terminals on his expensive, high end speakers. Go ahead, I dare you. :-) First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

RE: interesting reading against bi-wiring, posted on January 16, 2021 at 12:57:35
paco Audiophile Posts: 1520 Joined: April 26, 2000	agreed! yet the thesis that observation is theory-laden is not original from Einstein; if was formulated before by Pierre Duhem

RE: biwire jumpers, posted on January 16, 2021 at 12:59:19
paco Audiophile Posts: 1520 Joined: April 26, 2000	yep, the only thing to take care of is that those jumpers to be very high quality and no less than 12 AWG

RE: In a perfect world...., posted on January 16, 2021 at 13:03:37
paco Audiophile Posts: 1520 Joined: April 26, 2000	well, problems with bad x-overs can't be solved by bi-wiring, if i understand the gist of the article i don't need to ask that guy; it's clear why he uses only one pair... ;) so you dare me! to what? to ask that question or to stop bi-wiring?... :))

Not very good food for thought, posted on January 18, 2021 at 21:47:19

Jon Risch
Bored Member

Posts: 6659
Joined: April 4, 2000
Contributor
Since: March 1, 1999

His arguments do not hold when exposed to the real world, where biwiring can divide up the current flow and thus help reduce IM and XM distortion.

The circuit used to analyze bi-wiring must include all the proper circuit elements, including the source generators, at BOTH ENDS of the cables.

Also, there is not just the back EMF from the original local woofer to deal with, there is the ACOUSTIC output from the OTHER woofer (or woofers) in the room that feeds into the original woofer and thus send a time-delayed corruption signal into the crossover system.

See:
Simple explanation of bi-wiring
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/biwiring.htm

More involved, showing the potential for IM with single wiring:
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/biwiring2.htm

above page contd
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/biwiring3.htm

Heavy duty science regarding bi-wiring and IM distortion:
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/page10.htm
and
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/page11.htm
and
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/page12.htm
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/page7.htm
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/page8.htm
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/page9.htm

AES paper on new test signal:
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/PhiSpectral1.htm
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/PhiSpectral2.htm
and
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/PhiSpectral3.htm

Be careful not to go to any of the linked pages or the ads at this site, it is a rip-off of the old Geocities site, and has the potential for malware, etc.

OR

you could go to the Internet Archive Wayback Machine using this URL as a starting point:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/index2.htm

Please actually read these pages, before you begin to try and defend the linked article you cited.
He is way off base, and has not taken everything into account by far.

I will be glad to answer any genuine questions, as long as those who ask have actually read the material first.

Jon Risch

RE: Not very good food for thought, posted on January 19, 2021 at 02:14:41

paco
Audiophile

Posts: 1520
Joined: April 26, 2000

thanks Jon!

i'm not defending that paper, but even so it's the best attack against bi-wiring known to me, so it should be known, and then compared to the arguments hold by other positions

i'm on the AA now 20 years, so i know your pages; actually i'm bi-wiring myself, and in the past i've compared bi-wiring with single wiring many times; i think this comparison should be done by all serious audiophiles, because the results may well be system dependant

BTW your pages can't be opened now, not even through the Internet Archive; they are very valuable, so i think their content should be posted in a much easier way to be read

just a question: why do you think some manufacturers of high quality speakers provide them with only a pair of terminals?

best, paco

RE: Not very good food for thought, posted on January 21, 2021 at 19:00:00

Jon Risch
Bored Member

Posts: 6659
Joined: April 4, 2000
Contributor
Since: March 1, 1999

paco,

The pages are indeed available through the Internet Archive, aka The Wayback Machine.

See:
http://web.archive.org/

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/biwiring.htm

gets put into the searchbar at the archive and:

http://web.archive.org/web/2009*/http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/biwiring.htm

which leads to:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090809093338/http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/biwiring.htm

which has an active link to:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090809093338/http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/biwiring2.htm

which has an active link to:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090809093338/http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/biwiring3.htm

The next set of pages:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090809093339/http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/page7.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20090809093339/http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/page8.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20091022053344/http://geocities.com/jonrisch/page9.htm

etc.
*******************************************

RE why some speaker system designers only provide and vocally proclaim a need for a single pair of speaker terminals, there are several reasons that this may be a necessity.

1. Series crossover networks

2. Other special topologies similar in nature to series networks

3. Cross-connections between the woofer and the tweeter crossover sections, via bandlimited networks, or coupling transformers and associated networks, etc. Some of the super steep slope crossover topologies require these kinds of connections.

4. To avoid the use of inferior bi-wiring straps, or other complicating connection issues that even the highest quality jumpers or straps can not avoid. BTW, this is the only valid argument at the referenced site, the rest are readily shown to be not fully reasoned through.

5. Finally, some of the designers just don't get it, they don't seem to understand the fundamental reason for bi-wiring and it's division of labor via the bandlimited current draw for each leg. Perhaps they tried it and didn't hear a lot of difference, say due to one of the conditions I call out in my simplified analysis, where a low damping factor amp is coupled with low impedance (low DCR and Inductance) cables.

Bi-wiring isn't always going to provide an obvious benefit, but it often can be an audible improvement, it just needs to be tried in earnest to see if any particular system will benefit.
Jon Risch

RE: Not very good food for thought, posted on January 22, 2021 at 00:03:26
paco Audiophile Posts: 1520 Joined: April 26, 2000	thanks again, Jon! as per your pages, i think they should be indexed exactly in this way (ready for clicking!), then posted in the Audio Answers section of the AA; Rod would do it with pleasure indeed best, paco

Cable Asylum

interesting reading against bi-wiring

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