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DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables

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Posted on June 26, 2019 at 15:23:43
PranaBindu
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: Wyoming
Joined: April 17, 2002
 I'm researching the possibility of rolling my own version of the Auditorium 23 speaker cables. My research has turned up the following:

-Multi-Contact LS4 banana terminations
-twisted pair for each the positive and negative legs of each channel
-each twisted pair is jacketed in its own green cotton sheath, so each channel has two "cables" that are not themselves twisted together
-one of the wires in each twisted pair is smaller than the other
-Art Dudley seems convinced that the wire is copper
-the cable is considered fairly pliable, so I suspect stranded wire (also, I found a photo online of the Auditorium 23 with the bananas cut off, and it showed stranded wire for at least some of the wires - also it seemed to show silver-colored wire)
-there appears to be about 3 twists of wire per length of the banana termination

I ordered the banana plugs, but I have no clue what wire to get. Once I get the plugs in hand, I might be able to guess at the gauges used in the original, but I was hoping I could get some advice here. If anyone here knows the size and type (solid/stranded, copper/silver/both) of the wire used by the manufacturer, I would much appreciate the info.

Thank you for any help you might have.

May the bridges we burn light our way....

 

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RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on June 27, 2019 at 07:37:11
Ric
Audiophile

Posts: 364
Joined: October 14, 2001
 I would suggest trying the Doug Schroder method (google it) which uses two pairs of speaker wires in parallel.
This method will work with ANY speaker wires, so if you have any extras and your speaker terminals will accept it, give it a try and report back.
Good luck!

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on June 27, 2019 at 19:51:37
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Sounds like you'll be able to sort-of duplicate the physical features without much knowledge of how to duplicate the electrical?
A #14 and #16 pair on each leg? Find good muti stranded to get the flexibility you noted.
You saw 'silver' but was it Tinned Copper or real silver or something perverse like aluminum?
Too much is never enough

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on June 28, 2019 at 10:15:55
PranaBindu
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: Wyoming
Joined: April 17, 2002
 Well, I'm not sure that there are electrical features of that speaker cable that aren't wholly encompassed/expressed in its physical features. If I can get the same plugs, the same wire properties (metal, construction, size, dielectric), the same twist ratio, and the same soldering properties (probably impossible), what else is there?

I'm sure the only candidates are copper, silver-coated, and silver. I include copper, because the photos I saw may not be trustworthy. I am inclined to try copper first, despite the photos, because 1) Art Dudley was convinced of that, and 2) I heard my system on both copper and silver-coated copper Wireworld Eclipse 7 cables, at my dealer's, and the silver-coated cable sounded harsh immediately, obviously. It was night and day. However, if I like what I hear, I think I would be willing to make a second set out of silver or silver-coated copper, just to tinker.

May the bridges we burn light our way....

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on June 28, 2019 at 10:42:22
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 Interesting project. I kind of agree w picture guy... you have some more research to do to get this close.

i have always thought AU 23 cables were the most overpriced spkr cable on the market although they're pretty good cables for the high efficiency spkr tube amp crowd.
I think you could get close enough if you just used some good neotech 7N UPOCC copper wire of the proper gauge *(not sure what proper gauge would be).

Or maybe copy one of hifi collective spkr cable recipes here:

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/kits/cablehome.html

I imagine these have been vetted and would cut down on expensive and time consuming experimentation.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on June 28, 2019 at 11:00:37
PranaBindu
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: Wyoming
Joined: April 17, 2002
 Thanks! My current plan is to play with different gauge combinations (two different gauges into each banana plug) until it "looks like the pictures." Then I'll buy the stranded wire at those gauges and construct. I'm not much of a solderer, but it's my understanding that I want to get a good mechanical contact between the wire and the plug before I flood it with solder. I suppose that might mean crimping somewhat.

Then again, folks also recommend tinning the wire (and sometimes the plug) before soldering it onto the plug. My untrained instinct tells me I want a tight mechanical connection before getting solder on the wire.

I will report on my the results after I get the thing built. The plugs arrived at JFK this morning!!!

May the bridges we burn light our way....

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on June 28, 2019 at 11:26:04
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I'm the wrong guy to ask. Especially without a sample of the 'target' wire to measure and inspect.

The big proviso in your answer is IF. IF you can duplicate a bunch of stuff about the wire, connectors, fabrication, you should get REAL close.

It is possible that the OEM of the 'target' cable either uses Off The Shelf stuff or if the order is large enough, can have something custom made. THAN you're in trouble!

If I were making a DIY interconnect? I'd investigate single crystal copper. And than see how it can be purchased, with what insulation and sizes.

Speaker cable? Up for grabs, as to what you can get and at what cost.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on June 29, 2019 at 00:28:47
uwe
Manufacturer

Posts: 314
Joined: April 7, 2000
 I tried the original cable about 25 years ago. I liked it a lot. Don't know if it still can compete with cables of today.
Anyway, it was said that the wire was Belden. Don't know if that's true or not.

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on June 29, 2019 at 12:21:33
Wojciech
Audiophile

Posts: 4130
Joined: June 23, 2009



Looks to be silver coated copper and it may be a custom wire. Bite a bullet and buy a used wire. You will loose weeks on researching and couple of days on construction instead of paying $500 which after you're done with honeymoon period you will get back in it's entirety while your DIY effort will be wort $10.

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on July 1, 2019 at 09:56:18
PranaBindu
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: Wyoming
Joined: April 17, 2002
 That is a big IF. But I think you're right: I should be able to get close.

It's funny, because I saw here that a previous user of the cable thought it was made from Belden wire, and I thought to myself, "if that's true, and Belden doesn't have OCC wire options, I will probably go with the OCC from another manufacturer." This project is stirring up my audiophilia nervosa....

May the bridges we burn light our way....

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on July 1, 2019 at 10:04:47
PranaBindu
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: Wyoming
Joined: April 17, 2002
 That's the photo! I don't discern silver-plated copper in the photo. I also wonder if the silver visible in the photo is actually solder "tinning" on the wires, but there doesn't seem to be any reliable signs of tinning.

After a brief search, I couldn't find any used cables for sale. Also, I need a fairly long cable (15 feet?), and I doubt my chances of finding that length used.

My eyes tell me that's an all-silver cable....

One problem with the photo is that it shows twists on the pairs going all the way to where the plugs were. As I recall, all other photos of the cable show no twisting between the banana plug and the shrink tubing. Hmmmm....

May the bridges we burn light our way....

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on July 1, 2019 at 10:06:42
PranaBindu
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: Wyoming
Joined: April 17, 2002
 Thanks! I'll poke around in the Belden options, but I suspect there are too many to narrow it down. I'm stoked, though!

May the bridges we burn light our way....

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on July 1, 2019 at 10:50:48
Wojciech
Audiophile

Posts: 4130
Joined: June 23, 2009
 The twists are there because the owner of the cable cut it from the longer run and was selling the excess wire. Aud 23 is too cheap to be a full silver wire. There is a recent mania of old WE style tinned copper but 23 is too old and being a German cable it's likely a silver platted copper. The best way to get close is to buy a piece of original cable check if you can get close with DIY and if yes sell the cable and make a copy.If not sell the cable and find something else which you like or bite the bullet. Break-in is important and quality of soldering as well.

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on July 1, 2019 at 20:12:18
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 And IF you can match a target wire or cable Electrically, no guarantee of identical sound. Insulator type? Wire composition? Connector and attachment?

And depending on YOUR choices and what's available VS the OEM, your version may be better, or not!
And more or less cost effective. As if the highest end of cable purchasers don't have their OWN version of 'cost effective'.....

Part of the REAL hangup is you'll never KNOW. Every cable maker has an opinion. and I susepct each makes does something really well and some other stuff...not so smart.

Check the Beldin Catelogue for something of interest and perhaps order up some samples...enough to build a pair for test.
Too much is never enough

 

Breakthrough!!, posted on July 2, 2019 at 10:02:18
PranaBindu
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: Wyoming
Joined: April 17, 2002
 I think I figured out something important. It didn't make sense that each twisted pair would contain a smaller gauge wire and a larger gauge wire. The twists would tend to be non-uniform and probably very difficult to manufacture. I started looking at the photos online closer, and I think that the manufacturer pulls an interesting trick: Each channel has two twisted pairs, but one pair is not for positive and the other is not for negative; there is a twisted pair of smaller gauge, and there is a twisted pair of the larger gauge; the smaller gauge and the larger gauge get separated just before termination, so that each leg of each channel has one smaller and one larger wire. That's got to be it!

The plugs came in. The interior diameter is about 0.15 inches (3.8 mm). I believe that will fit a 12ga and a 14ga, but I have no clue what the actual cable uses. I think I'll keep staring at photos....
May the bridges we burn light our way....

 

RE: Breakthrough!!, posted on July 3, 2019 at 01:34:12
uwe
Manufacturer

Posts: 314
Joined: April 7, 2000
 Btw I remember that Auditorium 23 recommended a minimum length of 5 m for their speaker cable which came as a surprise to me as I always though the shorter the SC the better.
Hope this helps.

 

RE: Breakthrough!!, posted on July 3, 2019 at 02:19:12
uwe
Manufacturer

Posts: 314
Joined: April 7, 2000
 Just saw in a German forum that the thicker wire should be Belden 9497. The thinner wire should be (maybe) also Belden silver over copper. Nobody knew exactly what the thinner wire was. I found photos of the various diy projects in case you are interested.

 

RE: Breakthrough!!, posted on July 12, 2020 at 15:30:37
dianathehunter
Audiophile

Posts: 205
Joined: March 22, 2001
 Would love to see these photos

 

RE: DIY Auditorium 23 speaker cables, posted on July 28, 2020 at 19:33:33
FSonicSmith
Audiophile

Posts: 528
Location: Midwest
Joined: February 18, 2009
 I always understood that Keith Aschenbrenner used vintage WE wire. But I don't recall where I got that from and it could well be incorrect. As I type this, I am listening to the new Blue Note release of Art Blakey's Just Coolin' and loving my Auditorium 23 SC's along with the rest of my system which involves a TD124 with Reed 3P arm, a Manley Steelhead, ARC Ref6 and ARC Ref150SE and Devore O/93's. I have Analysis Plus Silver Apex going from my phono stage to my pre, Cardas Clear Beyond from my pre to my amp.
But here is where things get interesting. I used to use and still have on hand Cardas Clear SC. I like the Auditorium 23 better. Now you could say tubes and Devores, sure he prefers the Auditorium 23, but it gets more interesting. I have Spendor D7.2's which I swap in and out for the Devores every six months. I prefer the A23's with the Spendors too. So I happen to think, rightly or wrongly, that people see the simple cotton braid covering, the thin-ish overall profile and judge that there can't possibly be much to the engineering of the product. It is the inverse of the Magico/Nordost/Synergistic Research/Tara Labs effect, where people judge based on looks that there must be some magic cutting edge mojo going on. These SC's are a bargain, particularly when you find a pair used. I bought mine used, and not at that much of a discount from new. I love them (obviously). Without a ton of experience, I doubt very much your look-alikes will turn out to be sound-alikes.

 

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