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Opinions on Enlightened Audio Design PowerMaster 2000 (5 x 400Wpc)?

96.238.9.137
Posted on January 21, 2023 at 17:18:51
John Marks
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Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 A friend had a non-functioning one. The gentleman in Iowa who formerly worked on EAD stuff does not want to deal with an amplifier that heavy.

My guess is that troubleshooting an amp that large for which there does not seem to be a circuit diagram available, and then fixing it, would be in the $1250 to $2000 range, including replacing some capacitors, etc.

There's a working one on offer on eBay, pickup only, $3,300.

Any strong opinions?

Thanks,

john

 

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The first thing you need to do ..., posted on January 21, 2023 at 19:18:40
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13976
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 is to get an estimate on the cost of round-trip shipping and packaging.
You may well be surprised just how expensive this will be.

Once you get over the shock of that, you might well consider buying a
new piece(s).

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

I think that crating and shipping are out of the question, posted on January 22, 2023 at 06:52:50
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 A decently-made crate designed to be re-usable is going to cost circa $300 or upwards.

Also, shipping has to be by common-carrier freight, and in the interest of obeying Murphy's Law, the crate should be palletized.

FORTUNATELY, the amp is in Rhode Island and the one technician we have found who is willing (so far) to take it on is in Western Connecticut, so, the owner would have to drive it three hours or so each way.

If I had the cash to risk, I'd consider buying it to bi-amp stereo speakers...

But the reality in today's marketplace is that unless the owner needs five channels, for less than the cost of repair he can buy a VTV amp based on the Purifi digital module--I have one such amp on loan, and it is wonderful.

Thanks for posting,

john

 

Class D amps ..., posted on January 22, 2023 at 11:57:14
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13976
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 are the future. As are switch-mode power supplies.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

By the way...those VTV amps..., posted on January 23, 2023 at 12:07:57
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 ...no power ratings listed on the website. What gives?



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

425W @ 1% THD, 4Ω..., posted on January 23, 2023 at 21:48:40
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 Gotta go into the data sheet (red type) on the item page.

Just bought a VTV Hypex NCore NC252MP used.

Nice amp, probably work my way to a purifi in future.



"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

How's the QC?, posted on January 24, 2023 at 02:55:31
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 I've seen many online complaints about quality control.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

It's not my amp, so I have not opened it up., posted on January 24, 2023 at 08:22:33
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000



Been working fine.

I mean, all the guts came from some Asian factory--I assume.

VTV just literally builds the kit into an enclosure of their own design, but, you and I can buy a Purifi case from Ghent Audio and go to town.

NB, Ghent recommends using the Hypex PSU, which I think is pretty funny.

amb,

john

 

RE: Class D amps ..., posted on January 24, 2023 at 11:52:06
AbeCollins
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
My Class AB amp uses a (gasp!) switch-mode power supply and it not only sounds wonderful it is one of THE quietest measuring amps on the AP Precision - go figure. Too many old farts clinging to old school myths about linear power supplies vs switching supplies.

Similarly, my preamp uses a SMPS and it too is extremely quiet.



 

RE: Opinions on Enlightened Audio Design PowerMaster 2000 (5 x 400Wpc)?, posted on January 24, 2023 at 12:14:42
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46306
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 That's a lot of cash for broken old tech [and an unnecessarily heavy chassis] not to mention shipping costs. Just a thought linked below. Good luck!

P.S. Looks like Jeff Rowland products. Did Jeff Rowland machine the chassis / face plates for EAD ??



 

RE: How's the QC?, posted on January 24, 2023 at 12:58:30
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 No issues here though I've read those as well.

Something left in the past by a fast growing small company perhaps?

Sometimes it takes a minute to hit your stride.

Anyway, I'm happy with it and the used price was (IMO) a bargain.

Sure love the idea of the VTV AMPLIFIER Stereo Purifi Audio 1ET400A
Amplifier with VTV Vacuum Tube Buffer.

Just NOT enough tubes in my life ATM.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Old farts clinging..., posted on January 24, 2023 at 13:01:05
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 LOTS of progress being made in these areas.

In OUR lifetimes yet!

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Hmmm....DIY. Not a bad idea., posted on January 24, 2023 at 13:07:14
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 Hell of a sight easier than building a Bottlehead Foreplay.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

I could build one. Save a few hundred., posted on January 24, 2023 at 13:31:18
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 Giving it serious consideration.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

Go for it!!!!..., posted on January 24, 2023 at 13:55:54
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 I couldn't even if I could get the parts.

I'd short out the entire block somehow, cause a fire.





"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

No a Diamond-Buffing Contractor did it for both, posted on January 24, 2023 at 14:15:26
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 At one point, I had a note about the ID of the UHQ Surface-Finishing contractor.

If it really means something to someone, I can look it up.

ciao,

john

 

I loved the Ghent Audio Hypex Stereo amp I built., posted on January 24, 2023 at 14:18:00
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000



For a client's research project.

jm

 

400 wpc is about what I'm looking for., posted on January 24, 2023 at 14:30:25
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 Been thinking about a Crown Drivecore amp also. Can usually find used XLS 1502 amps from Guitar Center in the $300 range. 525 per side at 4 ohms.
Supposed to be great with Maggies.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

Like Al Bundy's air conditioner., posted on January 24, 2023 at 14:34:30
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 How'd the neighbors get those torches and pitchforks so fast?



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: It's not my amp, so I have not opened it up., posted on January 24, 2023 at 14:49:54
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Nothing at all wrong with a 'module' amp.

Just be aware of specsmanship. That 200 watt amp is probably about 1/2 that FTC method and the 200 is good for about 30 seconds....'D' amps are a little shy of heat sink for long-term high power use.

I have the Western Digital 'D' amp out in the garage.

Needs PS and casework. I suspect duties in a #2 system would be Fine and dandy.
Too much is never enough

 

The Hypex NC122 is NOT 400 wpc. You can get 250w/8Ohm in BTL mode, posted on January 24, 2023 at 15:34:10
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 sorry,

john

 

Into 4 ohms?, posted on January 24, 2023 at 15:51:45
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 Maggies are 4 ohms.
If I build the amp, I'll pick and choose the modules I need to get the appropriate power output.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

200W, posted on January 24, 2023 at 15:59:56
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 data below.

 

Need more than that., posted on January 24, 2023 at 16:10:21
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 My old Hafler makes 175 per channel. If I'm going to change amps, I'd want to go 400 wpc minimum.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

STOP PRESS!!! THERE'S A NEW REPLACEMENT FOR THE HYPEX NC400!!!!!, posted on January 24, 2023 at 16:44:56
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000



500 WPC!

A kit!!!

$900 to $1100 a channel.

Link below!!!

 

RE: No a Diamond-Buffing Contractor did it for both, posted on January 24, 2023 at 20:03:49
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46306
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
That's interesting about the diamond buffing contractor. Thanks.

Does Jeff Rowland have their own machine shop as many of their chassis are milled out of a chunk of aluminum - or do they contract that out too? If you happen to know. I'm just curious.



 

More than I want to spend., posted on January 25, 2023 at 04:38:57
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 I'd have to sell my turntable, which would defeat the purpose.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

AFAIK, JRDG has CNC equipment--HAAS, in fact--just about the best, posted on January 25, 2023 at 07:35:02
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 You can see the HAAS logo on the machine in the opening still of the linked-to video.

That's a major capital investment.

IIRC, Bricasti has 5 CNC machines, I don't know the maker.

Bricasti outsources anodization because there are lots of regulatory requirements, and Bricasti also outsources panel etching because that requires different expertise and equipment.

So, my guess is that JRDG might be the same.

Enjoy the video!

BTW, this is the diamond-buffing contractor.

https://in-tolerance.com/

JM

 

Thanks for the video on In-Touch, posted on January 25, 2023 at 08:48:05
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46306
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Interesting that you mention Bricasti as a buddy of mine just reviewed their most recent DAC, the Bricasti M1 Series II. I'll be listening to it later this week at his place.

I saw that In-Touch is based in Cedar Rapids Iowa home of Collins Radio now Collins Aerospace and now part of Raytheon Technologies. I worked for Collins General Aviation back in the early 1980's by John Wayne OC airport in SoCal until they moved all operations back to Cedar Rapids.



 

SORRY! HERE'S THE JRDG VIDEO I MEANT TO LINK TO, posted on January 25, 2023 at 08:51:38
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 JM

 

+1, posted on January 25, 2023 at 09:04:17
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37673
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 My first gen XPA-5 has worked great since 2011 in the HT driving electrostats at that. :)



 

RE: More than I want to spend., posted on January 25, 2023 at 09:11:25
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37673
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 You can get an OEM Hypex NC502mp amp for just over $700 from multiple sources. I've been happy with mine in the garage system for several years. Very nice midrange even if the top end is a bit lacking in refinement.

Output is over 400 watts/channel at 4 ohms operating full band.

 

That's a nice video too...., posted on January 25, 2023 at 09:55:26
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46306
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I once owned a used Jeff Rowland Concentra 2 integrated amp that was beautiful and wonderful sounding.

I also once owned the Mark Levinson 383 Integrated amp that was beautiful.



 

I don't own any Emotiva but, posted on January 25, 2023 at 09:58:04
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46306
Location: USA
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  Since: February 2, 2002
..their products appear to offer excellent value and many folks seem to like them.

I'd be curious to know how their 2-channel amps sound. I would imagine that they sound like the 5 channel amps with 3 amp modules removed ;-)



 

Not entirely, posted on January 25, 2023 at 10:01:41
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12383
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 A ton of lower cost SMPS make little effort to suppress RFI . . .and for most the RFI is nasty. I listen to both AM and FM radio and a nearby SMPS can interfere or totally wipe out a station. Oh, wait . . . Radio? Yeah, old fart clinging.

Presumably higher end SMPS give RFI some attention. Friends have SMPS/D amps and they sound great. No radio in the room for them so no idea of RFI from their amps.

 

Thanks, but the link isn't working., posted on January 25, 2023 at 10:17:51
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 $700 might be doable. At some point.
I don't really hear high frequencies anymore, so not to worried about top end extension.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

Exactly, posted on January 25, 2023 at 10:36:43
E-Stat
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 When you look from above the cabinet, you see five vertically oriented boards that share a common power supply.

Each channel separate but identical. I'm using only four.

 

Weird, posted on January 25, 2023 at 10:39:37
E-Stat
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Resolutely refuses to link to hypex source. Try again and click either of the first two links!

 

It's OK, I found a slew of Hypex amps with a simple search., posted on January 25, 2023 at 10:52:06
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 Does anybody make these with RCA inputs? My system isn't set up for balanced connections.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

Cheater adapter plugs are easy to get... $10 bucks each plus shipping, posted on January 25, 2023 at 11:16:50
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000



Neutrik is good.

jm

 

+1... those are what I'm using. Quite robust... N/T, posted on January 25, 2023 at 12:10:22
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
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Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 s
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Agreed, posted on January 25, 2023 at 12:55:50
E-Stat
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Hold an AM radio tuned off channel near the power supply of my Hypex NCore amp and it goes crazy!

Sometimes RFI noise is experienced by neighboring components, not the offender.

 

I had one of their 2-channel amps., posted on January 25, 2023 at 14:21:10
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 It was an XPA-200. Rated at 225 wpc into 4 ohms.
Really well built, but I think the Hafler I'm using now is smoother sounding. The Emotiva was a bit bright.




The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: AFAIK, JRDG has CNC equipment--HAAS, in fact--just about the best, posted on January 25, 2023 at 17:01:23
ChesshireCat
Audiophile

Posts: 1672
Location: midwest
Joined: July 5, 2007
 Hass in the machine tool world is well known as the cheap way out. Just about average middle of the road stuff, and not even close to great. Their one great advantage is price, and if you buy a good one with a lot of options you didn't save a dime
Gary

 

OK... what's the best, then?, posted on January 25, 2023 at 17:05:43
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 Thanks,

john

 

I should mention that there is no free lunch, posted on January 25, 2023 at 17:12:52
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7807
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 I believe that in most cases, when you feed a fully balanced amp a single-ended signal, the amp will not deliver its full dynamic range.

AFAIK, that was a prime factor in Michael Fremer's wishy washy review of the Bricasti big amp, which was designed on the premise that it would be fed a balanced input, but Fremer fed it a single-ended signal that started in an unbalanced phono stage.

The flip side of that is that quite a few amps that have XLR inputs regard those inputs as "Convenience" inputs, where the equipment's input stage is not fully balanced, and one leg of the input signal gets shorted to ground.

Example, I was a bit disappointed to learn that Plinius' huge SA-250 stereo amp operated in fully balanced mode only when the BTL switch was engaged for monoblock operation, and what had been the Stereo Left and Right sections became + and -. Hot and Cold.

ciao,

john

 

You're probably better off with one of these, posted on January 26, 2023 at 07:38:16
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46306
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Used PS Audio S300 Class D stereo amp for well under $1000. 300-WPC at 4-Ohms and PS Audio doesn't lie about their power output with specsmanship games. Fully balanced XLR inputs along with RCA inputs and 12v trigger.

I see two on US Audio Mart. One for $750, the other for $900. They're also built in a real US factory by a well established company that's been around for 30+ years - not built in someone's garage.



 

Who said entirely ? And no one said low cost...., posted on January 27, 2023 at 20:04:22
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46306
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 The SMPS in the Benchmark amp and preamp are not off the shelf low cost units that spew RF. [And just for grins I did the AM radio test. Nothing.]

The point is that a preamp and amp with well designed SMPS can EXCEED the performance of the best linear power supplies. I don't base my listening preference on measurements but on that front, the AP Precision measurements don't lie. The Benchmark AHB2 and LA4/HPA4 are proven to be a couple of the quietest amps and preamps on the market.

Both use SMPS busting the old fart myth that SMPS should be avoided.




 

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