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Wretched excess from CH Precision (and TAS)

69.130.180.113
Posted on January 7, 2023 at 08:51:11
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13976
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 The L10 preamp - 2 box ($76k) or 4 box ($132k) version! The M10 power
amp(s) - stereo for $104k or monoblocks for only $198k per pair! The
reviewer loves them (how could he not). To quote: "These electronics let you hear every nuance of musical expression and interaction between musicians in a way that is simply thrilling. A tour de force in amplification and my reference electronics."

I'm sure these things sound lovely - for the price, they better sound
better than lovely. But really ... don't you think there's gear out
there costing 10% of this stuff that sounds just as good? And if it
really is THAT good, then the questions to ask are: (1) how good are
your ears, (2) how good is the source material, (3) how good are your
loudspeakers. In short, the amplification chain may be far superior to
the inputs to or outputs from said amplification.

And even if this stuff is truly reference level, there will be something
else along shortly that some writer will have to declare to be even better! How could it be otherwise in this silly "hobby" of ours.

Link to the mini-review: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ch-precision-l10-dual-monaural-linestage-preamplifier-and-m10-two-channel-reference-power-amplifier/



Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

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    ...
I wonder if there is...., posted on January 7, 2023 at 12:04:42
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4593
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
 Any NEW EDGE cutting design that is truly new and not a tweak of a pre-exiting design other than those banks of 120,000Uf Ultra High Ripple and Ultra Low ESR/ESL Monster caps. I still don't see the how the L10 and M10 cost that much, but to be honest...I don't know how much was put into those products to warrant those prices. I was expecting more of those chassis.

 

Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 7, 2023 at 12:38:18
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I have to remind myself that a lot of this stuff is literally "audio jewelry" for those with deep pockets seeking bragging rights. And that's fine if you have really deep pockets ;-)

I've owned some pricey gear [but not like that!] over the years and I have proven to myself over and over again that high price and a Class "A" rating in Recommended Components means very little.

One example that comes to mind immediately with DACs is the Luxman DA-06. This was a $5000 DSD capable DAC when DSD playback was new and interesting. Of course the DA-06 also played typical CD quality and hi-res PCM files.

Unfortunately the Luxman DA-06, as pretty as it is, was a huge disappointment. Of course the audio rags all raved about it. I have had several DACs in the $1000 range that sound much better than the pretty Luxman.

Also had the lovely Mark Levinson 383 Integrated amp. What a boring and lifeless sounding piece of audio jewelry that was!



 

RE: To know what a Dollar can sound like, build your own. , posted on January 7, 2023 at 14:50:16
B. Scarpia
 After experiencing a large variety of commercial gear over many years.

 

I'd rather spend it on ..., posted on January 8, 2023 at 08:25:47
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13134
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 ...concerts.

Including the cost of travel, food, lodging and tickets, that kind of money buys a ton of concerts.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

You could rent a small club and hire bands to play..., posted on January 8, 2023 at 09:08:54
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 repeatably.

AND have the best seat in the house.

Plus really good snacks.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Part 35 -nt, posted on January 9, 2023 at 05:28:22
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002

 

RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 9, 2023 at 11:13:27
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > I have to remind myself that a lot of this stuff is literally "audio jewelry"

I know what you mean. I've known this for quite some time. What's the reason, though? Have you ever thought about that?

Based on my experience, audio components can only become so good. In other words, after a certain price point, an audio component really doesn't get any better -- only different. I've discovered that some of the most expensive components alter frequency response to sound different because if you can't hear a difference, why would you spend the big bucks?

The darTZeel preamp is a good example of a component that alters frequency response to sound different. Here's a graph of the frequency response of its phono section measured by Stereophile:





The darTZeel preamp will sound noticeably different from a preamp with a "flat" frequency response.

As you suggest, another method of differentiation is in a components appearance. Why would anyone spend an absurd amount of money on a component that looks just like all the cheap components?

Speakers are an excellent example of components that are designed to look different as well as sound different. Personally, I'm rather tired of the rectangular "boxy" appearance of so many speakers. I want a speaker that looks as good as it sounds. I like curves and rounded edges. Here are two of my favorites. I own them.





At any rate, I know what you're talking about. Manufacturers have to demonstrate observable differences in order to command big price tags. If your interest is primarily in sound quality, you don't have to spend the "big bucks" to buy high quality audio components.

Happy Listening!
John Elison

 

RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 9, 2023 at 23:29:08
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Nice pic! John

 

RE: Wretched excess from CH Precision (and TAS), posted on January 9, 2023 at 23:29:41
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Excess- No.
State of the Art - Yes.

 

RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 9, 2023 at 23:30:46
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Abe-
did you enjoy the ML No. 383 with your Thiel CS 2.4 speakers?

 

RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 10, 2023 at 06:36:56
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
No. I had the ML 383 driving my Tannoy Definition D500 towers. Those speakers don't require a lot of power.



 

RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 10, 2023 at 06:41:34
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
And some manufacturers go way too far on aesthetics to set themselves apart from the sea of silver or black audio boxes. Make it garishly weird and they will come ;-)



 

RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 10, 2023 at 19:52:00
Tuckers
Manufacturer

Posts: 2004
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 29, 2001



Whatever could you be talking about?

 

RE: Wretched excess from CH Precision (and TAS), posted on January 11, 2023 at 02:55:07
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 The explosion of cost-no-object audio bores me to death. Not just because I will NEVER afford them (of course) but because, there's no challenge anymore. I mean, yeah, at those prices it better sound very good... what else?
I'm MUCH more excited when a "budget" level or midrange level product is a giant killer. THERE you have the skills of the designers REALLY showing up. THAT is interesting... and if I can afford it, it's even better!

 

SOTA? Possibly. Necessary for great sound? NO, posted on January 11, 2023 at 04:40:06
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9873
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 Assuming your preference is for a preamp that doesn't modify the upstream signal other then adjusting gain, you will get that for far less of one's filthy lucre, viz.
  • Benchmark LA4, OR
  • Really cheap-out and go for a Topping Pre90.

    "Excess" is subjective of course.


    Dmitri Shostakovich

     

    • RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 11, 2023 at 07:19:22
    AbeCollins
    Audiophile

    Posts: 46302
    Location: USA
    Joined: June 22, 2001
    Contributor
      Since:     February 2, 2002

    Do we need to grease the gears?



     

    What is that?, posted on January 11, 2023 at 08:38:50
    Mr Steed
    Audiophile

    Posts: 829
    Location: NY
    Joined: May 19, 2012
    		 I like it.

     

    One of the interesting observations..., posted on January 11, 2023 at 10:00:35
    mlsstl
    Audiophile

    Posts: 1079
    Location: Midwest
    Joined: September 1, 2015
    		 ...in Jason Stoddard's book "Schiit Happened" is his discussion of the impact of case work on the cost of electronics. On high-end electronics, the case and cosmetic pieces are often far and away the most expensive parts, easily exceeding the cost of electronic components. One doesn't need an expensive case to shield EMI/RFI, nor to dampen vibration. The only real reason to have an expensive case in a home environment is for appearance, not sonic performance, though I'm sure some would claim otherwise.

    Its perfectly fine to want good looking gear, but that is a separate issue from its audible performance. Interestingly, it is not too hard to find threads on this and other forums where one person's "best looking" whatever is the ugliest thing someone else has ever seen. ;-)

     

    It's a wind-up Integrated Amp..., posted on January 11, 2023 at 11:49:50
    AbeCollins
    Audiophile

    Posts: 46302
    Location: USA
    Joined: June 22, 2001
    Contributor
      Since:     February 2, 2002
    		 .

     

    RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 11, 2023 at 18:39:09
    fantja
    Audiophile

    Posts: 15524
    Location: Alabama
    Joined: September 11, 2010
    		 Dan makes beautiful gear.

     

    RE: Quality sonics are not always proportional to price...., posted on January 12, 2023 at 04:57:20
    dgaapc7
    Audiophile

    Posts: 364
    Joined: August 16, 2013
    		 Nobody has mentioned that the CH stuff looks like a Project box that has undergone an engorgio spell.
    LowIQ

     

    Good point !! It's not even all that pretty as Project boxes go - nt, posted on January 14, 2023 at 08:58:39
    AbeCollins
    Audiophile

    Posts: 46302
    Location: USA
    Joined: June 22, 2001
    Contributor
      Since:     February 2, 2002
    		 .

     

    No one holds a gun to your head to buy it., posted on January 16, 2023 at 00:16:49
    RGA
    Reviewer

    Posts: 15177
    Location: Hong Kong
    Joined: August 8, 2001
    		 So don't buy it.

    Audio isn't even remotely a luxury purchase bad offender. A smartphone tells better time than a $2,000,000 Patek Philippe watch and diamond values are a complete fiction invented by De Beers. Their worth is what people are willing to pay for it - at least the amplifiers actually do something.

    The dress Marilyn Monroe wore when she sang Happy Birthday to JFK sold for $4.8 million. And most guys are trying to get the thing off for the prize inside happy to leave that dress in a pile on the floor.

    Honestly - who cares - those CH Precision owners are going to die just like you and me - so if it makes them a little happier before they go - who cares?

     

    Ya think?, posted on January 16, 2023 at 08:20:34
    Feanor
    Audiophile

    Posts: 9873
    Location: London, Ontario
    Joined: June 17, 2003
    Contributor
      Since:     March 12, 2004
    		 Kind of reminds me of a 19th century English pumping station ...




    Dmitri Shostakovich

     

    RE: NOT Wretched excess from CH Precision (and TAS), posted on January 22, 2023 at 09:08:12
    JerryS
    Reviewer

    Posts: 2026
    Joined: February 24, 2001
    		 Adding a CH Precision P1-X1 was the biggest sonic upgrade in many years. Previous phono stages were in the $4k-14k range.

    With experience comes, well, experience.

    Happy listening!

     

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