Yamaha A-S2200 - A Very Brief Review

Yamaha A-S1100 - A Very Brief Review, posted on October 20, 2020 at 21:55:15
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	Yes. Yamaha A-S1100 in my office listening setup:

*Underpowered , posted on October 21, 2020 at 09:19:02**
Mike K Audiophile Posts: 13973 Location: 97701 Joined: September 23, 1999	Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 21, 2020 at 11:16:31
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	...but I do like more power on my Thiels. However, Yamaha (like BMW) often sandbags on their power ratings. They sound OK on the Thiels. They sound great on the Tannoys.

RE: Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 22, 2020 at 05:25:43

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

My Thiel's have never sounded better since buying a pair of 1200-watt monoblocks. I bought a pair of the new PS Audio Stellar M1200 mono amplifiers three months ago and they've improved the sound of my Thiel CS3.7's quite substantially. Previously, I was using a Parasound Halo A21 but the new PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblocks really made things sound better. Dynamic range has never been so impressive. Bass is awesome and even the treble is smooth and transparent. However, midrange is to die for. Wow! These monoblocks are well worth their reasonable price of $6000 a pair.

PS Audio Stellar M1200 Monoblock Amplifiers

Did you get a discount for the crooked Printing of the Name?, posted on October 22, 2020 at 05:46:38
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10581 Joined: April 12, 2002	Looks like the Stencil slipped...

I've always heard that Subs should be in back of the Main Speakers,, posted on October 22, 2020 at 05:49:06
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10581 Joined: April 12, 2002	there look right up even with the speaker.

Is the R. Speaker really playing right into the table?, posted on October 22, 2020 at 05:52:47
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10581 Joined: April 12, 2002	It looks like a small, crowded room.No bigger room available?

RE: I've always heard that Subs should be in back of the Main Speakers,, posted on October 22, 2020 at 05:59:55
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004	These are Rythmik Servo Subs. They're supposed to be right next to the speakers.

RE: Is the R. Speaker really playing right into the table?, posted on October 22, 2020 at 06:01:57
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004	Yeah, that's required for perfect blending and integration. Remember, these are Rythmik Servo Subs. They're special!

It's an optical illusion. Here's a better picture..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 06:05:06
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004

RE: Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 22, 2020 at 07:28:45
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I've heard good things from a few owners about PS Audio's recent line of Class D amps. I find that Thiels like a good amount of power. Mine sounded their best with a pair of 250-WPC vacuum tube monoblocks. My Tannoys sound great with much less but still like about 50-WPC and more.

+1, posted on October 22, 2020 at 08:31:12

G Squared
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My Rythmic has to be almost touching my left speaker for best performance. It is special.

.
Gsquared

RE: I've always heard that Subs should be in back of the Main Speakers,, posted on October 22, 2020 at 09:16:28
tketcham Audiophile Posts: 6701 Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA Joined: March 21, 2005 Contributor Since: October 1, 2005	I actually place my stereo subwoofers in front of the main speakers, which are about six feet out into the room. That's where they sound the best in the room, and I've moved those subs and speakers around a bunch. The imaging and definition for bass notes is quite good. Tom

The physical relationship depends............................., posted on October 22, 2020 at 09:23:42
Kal Rubinson Reviewer Posts: 12435 Location: New York Joined: June 5, 2002	on the acoustical relationship of the subs to the main speakers and vice versa.

RE: Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 22, 2020 at 11:51:08
telackey Audiophile Posts: 289 Location: Oklahoma Joined: January 15, 2006	The A-S2200 actually replaced an older PS Audio Class D amp, a GCC-100. It was a very fine amp that gave me many good years of service. I think the Yamaha is superior though. But I can make no comparison to the current generation of PS Audio amps, as I have never heard them.

I've heard they should be in the same plane., posted on October 23, 2020 at 05:38:19
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	That's how they work best for me.

RE: Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 23, 2020 at 06:57:39
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	Nice amp. I have the A-S1100 [no XLR's] and it's the previous model having been replaced by the A-S1200. I've gone through several Class D amps over the years but like you, nothing current from PS Audio or any other company. They supposedly get better with each generation.... but I keep returning to "traditional" amps, solid-state and vacuum tubes.

RE: I've heard they should be in the same plane., posted on October 23, 2020 at 08:15:35

Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

That depends on the crossover used and the resulting phase relationship between the sub(s) and main speaker(s).

One of the advantages of using subs is that they can be placed to better minimize the excitation of major modes while the main speakers are placed for imaging/soundstage. This is enabled by effective crossover configuration to maintain the phase relationship between them.

Such hard and fast rules apply only in a fully defined context.

I once thought that as well..., posted on October 23, 2020 at 08:35:00

E-Stat
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Posts: 37582
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
Since: April 5, 2002

Until I experimented. Naturally, there are lots of variables when it comes to subwoofers - placement, number, crossover frequency, direction of radiation, cabinet design, etc.

In 2012, they were literally in the same space as stands for Polk LSi9s:

In 2015, I replaced those with Acoustat 1+1s and kept the position close by:

Then I was looking to clear some of the area. I ended up removing one of the shelves, purchased Emotiva "Virtual Copper" devices and moved them behind my sitting position where they were out of sight:

I got the most linear measured results in the final position. There was still a room mode based trough centered around 100 hz, but otherwise it was pretty flat in this third octave plot:

That space has since been completely remodeled with many a wall taken down and one pushed further out. I'm still a good month away from completion, but look forward to hearing the system in the new larger more open space where the system will be oriented in reverse since the wall in the above pic has been replaced with the kitchen island.

"that's required for perfect blending and integration. " The Table?, posted on October 23, 2020 at 10:56:17
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10581 Joined: April 12, 2002	You mean the Subs need to be forward, as pictured?

OK, I get it! nt, posted on October 23, 2020 at 10:57:28
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10581 Joined: April 12, 2002	/

RE: It's an optical illusion. Here's a better picture..., posted on October 23, 2020 at 11:39:00
rivervalley817	wonder what old Charlie Wooster's cookin' up for the boys on the TV there with regards,

RE: Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 23, 2020 at 12:10:13

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I just decided to take a chance on them because I saw that Stereophile was rating some of the newer class-D amplifiers as Class "A" in performance in their "Recommended Components". I didn't want to spend $17,000 for a pair of Parasound JC1+ monoblocks or $15,000 for a pair of PS Audio class-A/B monoblocks so I thought I would give the new PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblocks a try. I bought them before they were available, which was called a pre-order and they gave me a 20% discount as a result. Furthermore, the amplifiers were returnable if I didn't like them. Consequently, I thought it was kind of a no-brainer.

As it turned out, they sound absolutely spectacular with my Thiel CS3.7 speakers. They blew my Parasound Halo A21 out of the water. Perhaps the Parasound JC5 or JC1+ amplifiers would have sounded just as good or better, but the JC5 retailed for $6,000 and the JC1+ monoblocks retailed for $17,000 a pair. I was given a 20% discount for pre-ordering the PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblocks and they turned out to be awesome performers.

Best regards,
John Elison

PS Audio Stellar M1200 Monoblock Amplifiers

RE: Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 24, 2020 at 19:06:32
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I wonder how the M700's compare.

RE: Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 25, 2020 at 03:57:39
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004	> I wonder how the M700's compare. Well, the M700's are rated Class "A" in Stereophile's October issue of their "Recommended Components". However, I've read that the M1200's sound even better. Maybe they'll also be rated Class "A" in the future after Stereophile conducts a review of the new M1200's. They certainly sound good in my system. Best regards, John Elison

RE: I've heard they should be in the same plane., posted on October 25, 2020 at 04:05:08
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004	My Rythmik Servo Subs have continuously adjustable phase so I adjusted their phase potentiometer for the loudest bass and then adjusted their volume pot for a seamless blend. Best regards, John Elison

RE: I've heard they should be in the same plane., posted on October 25, 2020 at 05:25:55
tketcham Audiophile Posts: 6701 Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA Joined: March 21, 2005 Contributor Since: October 1, 2005	Hi, John, I often see instructions to place subwoofers and adjust phase to get the loudest bass but in my experience all that does is give you loud bass, not necessarily the best bass response. I prefer to set things up for the best articulation of bass notes within the frequency range of the subwoofers. Loudest output and best articulation can be coincident, but not always. Tom

RE: Exactly! /nm/, posted on October 25, 2020 at 05:27:23
tketcham Audiophile Posts: 6701 Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA Joined: March 21, 2005 Contributor Since: October 1, 2005	Tom

Well, I think you're wrong..., posted on October 25, 2020 at 05:41:17

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I place my subs right next to my main speakers and I adjust phase for maximum loudness, which sets the subs' phase to coincide with my main speakers phase. Next, I adjust the sub's volume to blend seamlessly with my main speakers without producing overpowering bass. This gives the best articulation of bass notes within the frequency range of the subwoofers and also the best overall sound quality.

Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with my speaker system's sound quality. My subs integrate perfectly and sound awesome without producing overpowering bass. The frequency range from top to bottom sounds perfect to me. Each time I play my stereo it sounds better to me than the last time.

Best regards,
John Elison

well, I am glad that you are happy., posted on October 25, 2020 at 06:37:59

Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

Apparently, your setup has extended the low range of your main speakers quite well.

OTOH, there might be better locations for your subs with respect to the room boundaries since it is likely you placed your main speakers for optimal full-range balance and soundstage. Having separate subs allows the option of moving the low frequency sources (subs) from those spots to others which will minimize the influence of room modes. Once those locations are determined (by calculation, bass-crawl and/or measurements), the useful controls on the Rythmik subs can be adjusted to bring them into proper acoustic alignment with the main speakers.

Many have found this to be an even more effective and satisfying way to set up the subs.

RE: well, I am glad that you are happy., posted on October 25, 2020 at 08:30:30

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I'm sure there might be better locations, but I don't know what they are and there are an infinite number of other locations. My system is a one man system and it sounds absolutely perfect from my listening position. If I heard anything that made me think I should make changes, I would. However, I've never owned another system that sounds this good so I'm just enjoying it. In fact, most of the time I think I've never heard another system that sounds this good.

Thanks, anyway!
John Elison

RE: Right or wrong..., posted on October 25, 2020 at 10:21:00
tketcham Audiophile Posts: 6701 Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA Joined: March 21, 2005 Contributor Since: October 1, 2005	John, I didn't mean to imply that YOUR setup is wrong, only that configuring a subwoofer for maximum loudness isn't always the best overall setting. That's all. Glad you like your setup. Tom

RE: Right or wrong...., posted on October 25, 2020 at 10:40:36

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I don't configure my subwoofer for maximum loudness. I set the phase control for maximum loudness thereby indicating my subs and my main speakers are in perfect phase with each other. Then I turn the volume down on the subwoofers until they match perfectly with the main speakers. I have several jazz records with a string bass going up and down the scale and I use them for setting subwoofer volume so they blend perfectly with my main speakers. I keep the string bass at the same volume from top to bottom so my system blends together perfectly without the deep bass jumping out at me.

When two speakers are sitting next to each other and they are not in phase, they tend to cancel each other out. If they are 180-degrees out-of-phase, you get maximum cancellation. Therefore, I adjust the phase potentiometer for maximum loudness to indicate correct phase response between the two speakers. Then I use the volume control on the subs to match their output so the string bass plays at the same volume up and down the scale.

I hope you now understand what I'm talking about.

Best regards,
John Elison

RE: Right or wrong...., posted on October 25, 2020 at 11:05:54
tketcham Audiophile Posts: 6701 Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA Joined: March 21, 2005 Contributor Since: October 1, 2005	I use a different approach but it sounds like we end up with a similar bass response. Tom

Amen., posted on October 25, 2020 at 11:20:23
Kal Rubinson Reviewer Posts: 12435 Location: New York Joined: June 5, 2002	I really mean that I was glad that you are happy. Nothing beats that. My comments were based on your description but aimed at other readers who might not be satisfied with their current setup.

RE: Right or wrong...., posted on October 25, 2020 at 11:44:56

John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

There is no other approach for matching the phase of two speakers. When they are perfectly in-phase, they will play the loudest when playing together. Any phase difference reduces their combined volume when playing together. After you match their phase response, you can adjust their relative volumes with any approach you like. However, unless the two speakers are located right next to each other, their relative phase will change based on the listener's location in the room. That's why the best location for subwoofers are right next to the main speakers, but then you need continuously adjustable phase in order to set them up properly.

From your response, I suspect you don't have subwoofers with continuously variable phase. In that case, you would have to find a location for the subwoofer relative to your main speakers where you get the loudest bass and then adjust subwoofer volume for the the proper blend or the best sound.

Good luck,
John Elison

RE: Not at all for my Tannoys....., posted on October 25, 2020 at 12:46:09
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	As a Thiel speaker owner yourself, your amp opinion is meaningful to me. Thanks!

RE: Right or wrong...., posted on October 25, 2020 at 13:54:04

tketcham
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Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
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The subwoofers I use do not have continuously variable phase adjustments so I use a different approach than you do. I can adjust phase to one of four settings: 0, 90, 180, and 270. Because of the limitations in phase control, it does require additional fine tuning of placement. But once I find a good location for each subwoofer, one that minimizes excitement of room nodes and yet provides reinforcement of bass definition for the main speakers, the lack of continuously variable phase control isn't a major handicap. Though I can definitely see the advantages.

I have stand-mount speakers, which have fairly good bass response, but decided to use a Loki Mini to roll off the low bass of the speakers and set the roll off on the subs to around 90-95 Hz. That goes against convention, which suggests setting a lower roll off frequency, but I find that if I pay attention to placement of the speakers and subs and use the Loki and the sub's phase adjustments, onboard DSP, and volume control to advantage I get a nice sounding integration, with well defined bass and great imaging. The subwoofers are as transparent as the main speakers, with no hint of where they're located.

I have had very good luck in setting up the subwoofers. Thanks. :-)

Regards,
Tom

HGTV, posted on October 25, 2020 at 16:45:04
Ozzie Audiophile Posts: 3812 Joined: August 1, 2002	strikes again.

Wait till..., posted on October 25, 2020 at 19:00:03
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37582 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	you see the completely remodeled space. Reduced visibility of gear with better measured response is a good thing for me. ;)

Amp/Preamp Asylum

Yamaha A-S2200 - A Very Brief Review

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