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The latest in wretched excess from McIntosh

216.228.191.161
Posted on October 10, 2020 at 21:04:01
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13975
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 McIntosh has bestowed upon us the MA12000, a 350wpc behemoth, weighing
108 pounds (141 pounds as shipped), with a tubed preamp section and Mac's
usual autoformers in the output section. Cost: $14000. No discounts will
apply, I'm sure. And let us not forget the monogrammed heatsinks. Read more about it right here: https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/integrated-amplifiers/MA12000

And let us not forget the MC901, a new dual mono amplifier, that McIntosh bills as "The ultimate solution for bi-amping loudspeakers: 300 Watt vacuum tube amplifier and 600 Watt solid state amplifier on one chassis".
Weight 180 pounds (200 pounds as shipped). Monogrammed heatsinks included. Read more about it right here: https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/new-products/MC901

Apparently Mac does not include in the price free rental of a forklift or other devices necessary to move these beasts around. One presumes that
once positioned they will not be regularly moved. Hopefully
they will never need to be returned to the factory for service.

It is likely impossible to view, much less audition, these products as no
sane dealer is going to stock them due to their cost. So one will have to
order it/them sight unseen and sound unheard, and hope for the best. I'm
pretty sure McIntosh does not plan to sell many of these, except perhaps
in Asia.




Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

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RE: The latest in wretched excess from McIntosh, posted on October 11, 2020 at 02:58:47
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10456
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 about a year or so ago I witnessed one model at Best Buy with green LED's circling the base of each tube. I guess the magic glow of the filaments were not enough to thrill the marketing dept. so they added them to attract ........somebody



 

"...with green LED's circling the base of each tube", posted on October 11, 2020 at 07:17:15
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 This one allows you to choose the color of the light show. ;)

 

RE: "...with green LED's circling the base of each tube", posted on October 11, 2020 at 08:36:08
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10456
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I think it was the same. They had the green on the display model. no thanks, my old modded Dyna III's sound wonderful. Thank you David Hafler.



 

But alas, posted on October 11, 2020 at 08:44:03
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 the 2152 doesn't have the cup holder atop like the new integrated.

 

Excess is good. Wretched excess is better., posted on October 11, 2020 at 08:55:44
viridian
 You know you can provide clickable links.

 

LOL!, posted on October 11, 2020 at 10:52:48
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 I want the one with the built in roaster. Nothing tastes better than coffee beans roasted over some KT88s. NOS if possible. Very smooth.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

What?!? No meter, no blue glow..., posted on October 11, 2020 at 15:22:52
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 radius of the bottom seems too small for the cup holder AND, far too easy for this style of cup to get knocked over. Obviously NOT their area of expertise.




a
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

But..., posted on October 11, 2020 at 15:29:31
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 you can get the meters and blue glow from the towel. ;)



 

A friend bought the 2 amp mono blocks. He loves them. Mac gear, posted on October 11, 2020 at 19:04:24
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 I have is fantastic.
And while expensive, not everything is That expensive...

 

You are leaving out the part about sounding, posted on October 11, 2020 at 19:06:07
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 GREAT!
My Mc 275 has the Green Lights.
Sounds great too, BTW.

 

No one is asking you to change. nt, posted on October 11, 2020 at 19:08:14
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

 

I have several tall mugs. they work fine. Scoff all you want,, posted on October 11, 2020 at 19:10:20
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 they even have a Clock.
But the gear is great.
End of story.

 

Dude, it's an AMP.nt, posted on October 11, 2020 at 19:11:20
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

 

RE: The latest in wretched excess from McIntosh, posted on October 11, 2020 at 20:13:48
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4309
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 You're right but so what. If it doesn't sell then the public has spoken and vice versa. You don't have to buy one. Why are you so angry? There are many way more egregious examples in high end audio.

 

RE: No one is asking you to change. nt, posted on October 12, 2020 at 02:06:47
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10456
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 It's my experience related to the sad state of retail hi end. Why add your insipid comment?



 

RE: You are leaving out the part about sounding, posted on October 12, 2020 at 02:08:20
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10456
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I'm happy for you anyway



 

LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 12, 2020 at 07:42:17
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 Frankly, McIntosh amps are so reliable that I've seen them used to drive special nuclear instruments at a reactor plant. THAT says a LOT.

However? I'm not exactly crazy about their looks.

But? Looks wouldn't put me off, if I liked the sound. I've just never been bowled over by any McIntosh gear driven systems.

 

Angry? I'm not the least bit angry., posted on October 12, 2020 at 07:59:41
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13975
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 I'm just amused.

I'm sure the stuff is high quality. I'm sure it will last a long time.
I'm sure it will sound like all other McIntosh gear.

I'm sure it has nigh snob appeal - "look at me, I can afford McIntosh and
you can't".

McIntosh is for people who have money buy not particularly great ears.

For the cost of one MA12000 - $14k - I can put together an absolutely
killer complete system.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 12, 2020 at 08:37:21
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I did actually witness one of their big ones go nuclear at a Best Buy. It could have taken out the front windows with the squeal it made.

In fairness, who knows what happened to that amp. Probably some kid spilt his "power drink" on it???

 

Interesting ................, posted on October 12, 2020 at 13:42:16
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 I don't believe that I've heard of Amplifiers expressed in terms of Amps? Do you have a link to what he actually bought?



 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 12, 2020 at 14:46:33
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
 The Grateful Dead used 48 McIntosh MC-2300 amps as the main power source for the 'Wall of Sound'. If you google for photos, I'm sure you can find images showing them.

 

Why are you so defensive?, posted on October 12, 2020 at 20:02:53
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 People are just having fun. I deleted my earlier replies, because they were pretty rude, admittedly, so sorry about that, but I don't understand your reaction.

Personally, I think the products linked to are over the top, especially those monoblocks, and I don't understand the need to make every single McIntosh product immediately identifiable as such with meters and glass and blue lights, and now the green LEDs. But that's just my opinion and so I'm poking some fun at the whole thing.

I get that it's a wildly popular and successful company that makes products people really like. And it also employees a lot of people and is part of U.S. manufacturing, which is great. But I can still make fun of some of their products. I can also appreciate other products they make.

My joke about the coffee roaster was part of the thread and all the various functions listed. It's no big deal.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 12, 2020 at 20:05:58
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4391
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 I was talking to a rep from Anvil Case to get a custom case for a scientific instrument - the rep said that the Dead used Anvil Cases for their amps, and one day an amp fell of the back of the flatbed truck (18 Wheeler for the wall of sound) on 880 coming home from San Jose-
The case was pretty banged up - but the amp worked, and not a tube was broken!
Happy Listening

 

The one described by the OP, posted on October 12, 2020 at 20:06:22
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 He provided the IRL.

It might very well sound great, I suppose. But I'd never want one for a number of reasons.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 13, 2020 at 02:28:51
Uncle Mike
 I've done instrumentation in several nuclear plants but never saw a piece of Mac in anything but pictures of a co-workers home system, among other things. Not to name drop but that co-worker was Lloyd Walker.

 

RE: Fox, meet Grape (nt), posted on October 13, 2020 at 05:12:52
B. Scarpia

 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 13, 2020 at 06:54:51
ABliss
Audiophile

Posts: 1482
Joined: March 16, 2001
Contributor
  Since: August 3, 2002
 I am a Mac fan and have Mac equipment, but if Mac amps were used at nuclear power plants, I am sure they would be special order and built to a much higher speck.

 

Was at the Kesselring site naval nuclear prototype where I saw them., posted on October 13, 2020 at 07:36:34
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000



D1G special instrumentation room. :)

 

Nope, run of the mill, "off the rack" amps..., posted on October 13, 2020 at 07:47:05
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 Of course, the instruments they were driving weren't in any way tied into the control or operation of the reactor plant - rather they were used in a "special nuclear instruments" environment, so just monitoring some parameters for experimental data.

 

The MC901 is unusual, posted on October 13, 2020 at 09:20:30
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 A hybrid design intended for bi-amping using 300 watt tube and 600 watt SS in one chassis for a single channel.





 

What is your point?, posted on October 13, 2020 at 11:27:23
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 1356
Location: New England
Joined: June 22, 2008
 Audio Classics will have the amp as soon as it's available for auditions. They also have the MC901 on display for audition. You are complaining about the weight of the amps and needing a fork lift. There are hundreds upon hundreds of amps that weigh more than the Mac. If you aren't a McIntosh fan, that's fine but don't diss it because you dislike or can't afford McIntosh.


"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."


 

Not angry, just a jerk, posted on October 13, 2020 at 11:33:01
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 1356
Location: New England
Joined: June 22, 2008
 You made quite an asshole statement that Mac is good for people with money but can't hear. My hearing is excellent and in my later years have moved on to mostly McIntosh equipment. Again, sour grapes because you can't afford the equipment. I also bet you are a Republican, that would explain everything.


"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."


 

RE: "...with green LED's circling the base of each tube", posted on October 13, 2020 at 11:36:33
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 1356
Location: New England
Joined: June 22, 2008
 And here that explains it. Still sticking with the old Dynaco. I call cheapskate.


"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."


 

RE: Smiling Albert Kesselring?, posted on October 13, 2020 at 12:15:08
B. Scarpia

 

If you need to complain, check out Dan D'Augastino.... nt, posted on October 14, 2020 at 09:26:06
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

 

I bought a Mac amp once. , posted on October 14, 2020 at 09:51:49
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 Fifty pounds. Came on a wood crate.

Plugged it in and one of the meters was broken. I sent it back (no local hi-fi stores) and said 'never again'.

Replaced it with a Benchmark AHB2, an absolutely zero hassle amp. It's the last amp for me.
'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: I bought a Mac amp once. , posted on October 14, 2020 at 10:16:00
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I've had about a half dozen Mac's over the decades. Always tried them and always sold them.

They're good amps, but it's clearly a taste thing. It's like trying to convince everyone that they should be using SET's, Class D's or tubes. The point is - It's a taste! But those blue meters do draw you in like flies to sugar water.

 

RE: I bought a Mac amp once. , posted on October 14, 2020 at 10:46:26
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 They're good amps, but it's clearly a taste thing.

I think Charlie Randall hit the nail on the head with his comments in this interview.

"...whereas the McIntosh customer just has McIntosh -- they gravitate to the stack."

And aren't concerned that their SS line stages use $.34 op amps.

But those blue meters do draw you in like flies to sugar water.

While they are superfluous and appear gaudy to others.

HP highly regarded the MC2301 tube amps. They were there during one of my visits and I auditioned them in Room 2 as you see in the picture. I turned off the Cyclop's eyes ;)


 

Oy! still obsessing over op amps, posted on October 14, 2020 at 11:41:31
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9872
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 Lots of great-sounding equipment use them.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

They are appropriate when, posted on October 14, 2020 at 11:48:33
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 working with limited budgets.

On an $8000 preamp?

 

RE: They are appropriate when, posted on October 14, 2020 at 13:26:38
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I gotta go with E-Stat on this one! Just bust open the accounting department and buy the damn chip!

 

Making HiFi equipment is not a charity operation -NT, posted on October 14, 2020 at 14:39:20
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003

 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 14, 2020 at 14:56:02
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I think the Dead even were Distributors or some other relation TO mac so they had a pipeline to what they needed. I'm guessing in THAT duty that failures in equipment DID occur.


Too much is never enough

 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 14, 2020 at 15:08:40
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
 I was reading an article some years back where they were talking about the 'Wall of Sound', and it mentioned that the Mac amps were pretty reliable. That's the reason they were chosen. I imagine a few did go out from time to time, but with 48 of them, you probably wouldn't notice.

 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 14, 2020 at 15:48:49
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Was there a Bryston Option at that time? I thought they were the 'bulletproof' choice?


Too much is never enough

 

RE: LOVE McIntosh reliability..., posted on October 15, 2020 at 13:32:56
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
 I dont know. The Dead did not consult with me over their choice.

 

HP seems to be saying,.., posted on October 15, 2020 at 18:38:27
DustyC
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Yeah, I know they're not electrostatic! How about the amp??
I remember that mac review. HP said he had a hard time identifying any coloration. I thought "wow, he finally found the perfect amp".

 

Until..., posted on October 15, 2020 at 18:46:05
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 I thought "wow, he finally found the perfect amp".

he heard a REF75 driving the big Nolas in 2014.




 

RE: "...with green LED's circling the base of each tube", posted on October 16, 2020 at 02:50:40
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10456
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 your an asswipe. You have no idea of what I experience, none whatsoEVER



 

RE: Until..., posted on October 16, 2020 at 07:24:56
DustyC
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Yeah it's amazing how NOLA got all those drivers to play nice and be tube friendly.

 

RE: Until..., posted on October 16, 2020 at 08:48:26
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 The drivers play nicely but still have seams to this coherency freak. ;)

 

"Excess" will always have its appeal, but ..., posted on October 16, 2020 at 08:51:58
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9872
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 ... It's no longer essential for great sound.

Schiit Audio, various Chinese offering such as from Topping, and the latest generation of class D, notably from Hypex and Purifi, deliver the goods for dimes on the dollar.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: Until..., posted on October 16, 2020 at 09:57:52
DustyC
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Yeah, kinda hard to argue with a full range driver.

 

Your kidding!, posted on October 16, 2020 at 10:00:47
DustyC
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Joined: November 4, 2000
 They have towels?
Brilliant marketing move!

 

Naturally!, posted on October 16, 2020 at 10:58:27
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37653
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Some use it as a wall hanging. ;)



 

LOL, Schitt audio! Their customers are beta testers. nt, posted on October 19, 2020 at 16:02:31
viridian
 Nt

 

RE: LOL, Schitt audio! Their customers are beta testers. nt, posted on October 20, 2020 at 09:29:05
Don Reid
Audiophile

Posts: 890
Location: Rural NW Georgia
Joined: February 2, 2001
Contributor
  Since: April 1, 2010
 My wife and I bought a new McIntosh 2105 power amp in 1972. I passed it on to my son. It is still playing fine in my son's basement party room driving a pair of Bose 901s, Series 1 that are also hand me downs. The Mac has never needed repair. After forty-eight years I think it could benefit from new capacitors, but the fact that it has been playing away for nearly half a century says something.
I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

 

Have you had problems with Schiit products?, posted on October 20, 2020 at 11:02:31
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9872
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 I've owned quite a few and have not.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: Neither have I..., posted on October 20, 2020 at 11:20:49
tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
Joined: March 21, 2005
Contributor
  Since: October 1, 2005
 I have a number of Schiit Audio products and never a problem.

But I've had to return or repair products from Audio-Technica, Dynavector, Music Hall, Rega, Creek, Michell Engineering, Oppo, and AVID.

Tom

 

We dun phucked up, or, please be part of the "Sol Beta Test", posted on October 20, 2020 at 17:47:44
viridian
 No one cares about my experience, or yours. We are a sample of two, you must have the math skills to understand that.

The header quote is not from me, but from Schiit Audio after every turntable they sent out was unacceptably problem prone. They are making their customers beta testers. They said it, not me.

There are many other anecdotal problems discussed on the net about Schiit gear, including the pieces smoking, I might add. I take this with a grain of salt as they are a high volume seller and it is really hard, without their assistance, to understand the rate of defects in their products, but the SOL thing is the smoking gun that caused them to capitulate to customer outrage and admit a 100% failure. As you said, "They deliver the goods." And sometimes, the goods even work.

You know, Mac sells turntables as well, not much talk about failures from what I can see, but, in all fairness, the sales volumes must be orders of magnitude lower.

 

RE: I bought a Mac amp once. , posted on October 20, 2020 at 17:49:51
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 It's funny but my favourite McIntosh amps don't have meters.

 

RE: The latest in wretched excess from McIntosh, posted on October 20, 2020 at 17:53:13
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Nothing Succeeds Like Excess


Too much is never enough

 

RE: The latest in wretched excess from McIntosh, posted on October 23, 2020 at 00:29:54
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 I'm not crazy about the brand either. It's becoming more and more "over the top".
Hell, a guy I know bought an MA9000 to drive a pair of... AvantGuarde speakers. That's probably the worst mismatch one could make, but it says a lot: he obviously bought the amp because it's big, expensive, and everyone recognizes it. It's a status symbol.
Same for his AvantGuarde speakers: he probably bought them as status symbols, otherwise he would have picked an amp that is more appropriate for them.
But okay, whatever floats his boat, you know, his money and all that, but still, somehow, frustrating.

 

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