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The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production

79.75.223.45
Posted on May 9, 2020 at 09:32:48
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004



There's hardly a word about this miniscule Class D amplifier in this forum, so I'm wondering if anyone here owns this odd-looking mono amp, or has first hand experience.

It's a cute looking thing that has most of its electronics built into what looks like a vacuum tube - but it isn't!

On another forum, a fellow Avantgarde speaker owner uses these amps to power his 47K (UK pounds) Avantgarde Mezzos. At $7500 per pair in this polished finish (or $6800 in standard), it seems pretty good value, judgung by its exceptional reviews.

Any useful observations welcome. Thanks

 

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Looks expensive, posted on May 9, 2020 at 10:36:32
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13976
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 Also looks like mfgr. spent a lot of money on glitzy chrome and other non-
essentials, which ups the price and does nothing for performance. But it
may sound great nonetheless.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

RE: Looks expensive, posted on May 9, 2020 at 10:42:40
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Mike - I've edited my post to give the price. A few very good reviews that all consider these mini-amps exceptional value. No good with Maggies though! Peter

 

Looks novel and unique - butttt, posted on May 9, 2020 at 12:29:55
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Unfortunately, as others have already said, unique and sound are usually two very different categories. The ONLY way you would know how they perform is:

1- home trial with 30 day return policy. This way the company can get their name out there if they are that good.
2- Other posters OWN them and do their own reviews. Commercial reviews are worthless. Actually they are more often then not, just a paid advertisement. When was the last time you saw a BAD review!!!

I like how their web page shows various wave patterns. I can make a squeaking door put out a square wave. Doesn't mean it's going to play my Doobie Brothers album.

 

Looks Cheesy To Me, posted on May 9, 2020 at 12:35:47
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46302
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Are you kidding, really? A solid-state Class D switching amp with it's electronics housed in a glass non-vacuum tube? And a cheesy polished pot metal chassis covered in a heavy helping of audiophile marketing syrup.

Doesn't do it for me but make it bizarre for no practical reason and they will come. They should have riveted some rocket ship fins to it as it appears to be marketed toward the space race generation.

EnjoyTheMusic.com pegs them at $7500/pair for the polished pot metal finish.




 

Agree ................., posted on May 9, 2020 at 12:45:28
Cut-Throat
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Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
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  Since: May 16, 2021
 Looks like it was put together by a High School Sheet Metal Shop Class.



 

RE: I can make a squeaking door put out a square wave, posted on May 9, 2020 at 13:12:07
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I'll have to remember that! I like it ;-)



 

Abe and Cut-Throat, posted on May 9, 2020 at 16:25:58
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 I asked for observations from anyone with experience of this amp. You are both notorious for rubbishing equipment you know nothing about but despise its cost or technology.

It would be appreciated if you keep your comments (at least in respect of my postings) to ones that you have personally observed.

Many thanks. Peter

 

From your Post "Any useful observations welcome. Thanks" ........., posted on May 9, 2020 at 16:27:55
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 I gave you my observation.... And for the untrained eye, it was very 'useful'.

IOW - It doesn't take actual experience with this amp to realize that it is 'Butt Ugly'.




 

Enjoy the Music say, posted on May 9, 2020 at 16:35:08
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 "Today, along with advances in speaker design, we've reached a level of sound quality at the upper reaches of this industry where I really don't care whether an amp is tube based or solid state. The music is simply so good. And partly I don't care because I can't afford the gear at that high level. While The Audion is not inexpensive, it breaks through what for many is a megabuck financial threshold making it a lot more accessible than most amps of this quality."

Enjoy the Music Summary

 

I think you mispelled Useless ..., posted on May 9, 2020 at 16:38:27
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 and said Useful in error.

No further useful or useless comments required thanks

 

Meaningless .................... nt, posted on May 9, 2020 at 16:50:19
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 nt



 

You can add me to that line-up..., posted on May 9, 2020 at 16:59:03
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 and I have yet to even reach anywhere near notorious.

My observation mirrors theirs in regards to the obvious aesthetic failing.

Really seems more like an immature attempt at novelty than a solid
engineering choice. To just look at it and think pretty good value
seems... disingenuous... at what the price is.

Can't fault their posting(s) as you edited your initial post repeatedly.


"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: Looks novel and unique - butttt, posted on May 9, 2020 at 17:11:51
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 You say:

2- Other posters OWN them and do their own reviews. Commercial reviews are worthless. Actually they are more often then not, just a paid advertisement. When was the last time you saw a BAD review!!!

People who OWN equipment rarely admit to buying something that's not good, so I treat owners; reviews with a degree of scepticism, although I greatly appreciate their views on how the stuff sounds in their room with their speakers on their choice of music. I can decipher this as I think fit.

PROFESSIONALS' reviews are, as you say, rarely damning of a product, but one learns to read between the lines and to dismiss the bullshit that the manufacturer has fed them.

I respect several reviewers though far from all. I would not have considered buying my speakers had it not been for Robert Deutsch's comprehensive and very descriptive (and scarily accurate) review. A consistency in several reviews is what's needed and then to arrange a home demo before committing to buy.

I'm hoping to hear from owners and those who've experienced this equipment at shows or showrooms - it's a start!

 

Editing Problems, posted on May 9, 2020 at 18:12:02
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > Can't fault their posting(s) as you edited your initial post repeatedly.

Interesting that a £ sign can be included in an ORIGINAL post, but any text that follows this sign is rejected when editing. Hence the numerous re-edits until I'd worked out why my text was disappearing! Sorry about that.

 

You're right, posted on May 10, 2020 at 06:26:31
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I myself have purchased gear over the years, and posted how great it's working out. Only to have that same gear sitting in my closet used. Because in the long haul it really wasn't that good.

So, I agree.

However, I've read reviews on gear that I've personally owned or tried and couldn't believe that we're talking about the same piece.

 

RE: You're right, posted on May 10, 2020 at 06:58:36
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > However, I've read reviews on gear that I've personally owned or tried and couldn't believe that we're talking about the same piece.

Ha-ha, yes. I can think of one amp in particular that I bought after a rave personal recommendation from a fellow Avantgarde owner before any reviews were published. He was waxing lyrical about this $3K amp and comparing it with megabuck valve and costly ss ones. However I found it dull and lifeless - to the extent I wanted to turn down the volume - surely the kiss of death in hi-fi!

Professional reviews started appearing, generally raving about its silence (this it turned out to be what my AG chum was craving), it's accuracy, its diminutive size and nice features such as gain switch. However, some of the truth began to seep out when carefully reading between the lines and some hints that it wasn't as exciting as suggested in the bulk of the review. It's like reading Amazon reviews - always ignore the 5 and 4 star reviews and read the 3 and 2 ones. The 1 star ones are usually from idiots who didn't read about what they were buying!

 

I wonder if, posted on May 10, 2020 at 07:16:43
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 they complete the faux tube theme with Edison style LED "filaments" within the ship-in-a-bottle?

It seems to answer a question no one asks. While it targets the SET market, I doubt they'll have many takers from that camp. For those who want a powerful switcher, why not get a pair of Bruno's latest and greatest for far less?

 

Exactly, posted on May 10, 2020 at 07:50:38
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Funny, that's exactly what I do on Amazon.

I always believed a good review points out both the pros and cons. There no such thing as the "perfect" stereo. Only MY stereo is the perfect one :)

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on May 10, 2020 at 08:03:37
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 I've seen those amps demoed on YouTube by Mike Powell.(Mike Powell Audio/ OCD HiFi Guy)
I believe he is a dealer for this product as well. Now like many here, I can't find much value in YouTube videos in regard to determining how a component sounds. I guess if you're curious about these amps, I'd give him a call or e-mail.

 

Sucker bait ... period, posted on May 10, 2020 at 08:30:49
Feanor
Audiophile

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Location: London, Ontario
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Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 Like E-Stat in his wisdom says if you want and switching amp look to a Hypex nCore which can be had for beginning around $600. At least you know your SOTA.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: I wonder if, posted on May 10, 2020 at 09:08:29
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 I think one of the points in using the tube-like enclosure is upgradeability. It can be replaced so easily for an alternative device.

The present Audion is 70 watts or so and I gather from reviews that others may be available in future. SET watts seem to go far further than SS ones (a controversial observation perhaps), so this amp is probably most suitable for use with efficient speakers such as those loved by SET users.

As an ex-SET user (PX-25, 300B and mainly 845) for many years and now a Class D convert for my 104dB speakers, I rather like the idea of imitating (if that's not a derogatory term) SET sound and appearance in a highly efficient modern amplifier.

I don't really want to follow Feanor's Hypex Ncore suggestion as it's far too powerful for me and I believe there are now better D modules, particularly in the lower power range eg Purifi.

If people here with no first hand experience of this amp chose to read reviews first, I wonder if we wouldn't get more enlightened replies!

 

Enlightened audiophoolery, posted on May 10, 2020 at 10:52:03
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 "If people here with no first hand experience of this amp chose to read reviews first, I wonder if we wouldn't get more enlightened replies!"

As inmate Cut-Throat already said about reviews: "Meaningless".

I will add that I have owned many "well reviewed" amps and other audio components over the decades that were not so great sounding. I have learned to read reviews mainly for the product description including features, photos, pricing, and some specs.

How the reviewer gushes over game changing sonics is of no interest to me.

In this case, the amp's gaudy looks and gimmicky tech immediately raised two red flags with me. One would have been enough to raise my suspicions. But two red flags? I know better than to fall victim to this kind of audiophoolery.



 

RE: Enlightened audiophoolery, posted on May 10, 2020 at 13:12:45
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > In this case, the amp's gaudy looks and gimmicky tech immediately raised two red flags with me. One would have been enough to raise my suspicions. But two red flags? I know better than to fall victim to this kind of audiophoolery.

I felt much the same after seeing Avantgarde and other weird-looking speakers at shows - I just walked past. However when I wanted to replace my ATC50 speakers, I looked around and read reviews. I noticed that Stereophile had chosen Avantgarde Unos as their Joint Speaker of the Year. This led me to read Robert Deutsch's full 15 page review and that convinced me that I should give then serious consideration, as he described EXACTLY the sort of sound I was looking for. A quick demo in a dingy London basement showroom had me further encouraged. I bought a pair in 2003 and kept them till last year - to be replaced by Duos. So appearances can be very deceptive and because something looks zany doesn't mean it deserves rubbishing.

Reviews are not always to be dismissed. Asking here seems less useful as no replies so far have been remotely constructive. Most have been dismissive for no other reason than their appearance. Well, I'd like to hear them myself but also from anyone who has actually heard them as the reviews have been consistently exceptional - and voted best sound at Axpona, for what any of this is worth But I suppose those who've damned them here have neither heard them, nor read reviews. It's a shame that AA has fallen as far as it has in getting honest and worthwhile comments from fellow members. Perhaps I should have posted elsewhere which is a shame as I used to respect the views of others here.

 

Sometimes skepticism is warranted whether or not auditioned, posted on May 10, 2020 at 13:16:18
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9873
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 That's especially true of ugly, presumably overpriced equipment from obscure makers.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: I wonder if, posted on May 10, 2020 at 13:19:58
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 I believe there are now better D modules, particularly in the lower power range eg Purifi.

That's Bruno's latest and greatest.

If people here with no first hand experience of this amp chose to read reviews first...

Lead us to them!

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on May 10, 2020 at 13:28:07
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Thanks Mike. I'll take a look at the Youtube video you mention, though sound comparisons are impossible. It's just good to hear the presenter's opinions.

AGD only sell direct so Mike Powell is not a dealer for the brand. Peter

 

Agree that reviews can be helpful, esp. the objective variety, posted on May 10, 2020 at 14:21:55
Feanor
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Posts: 9873
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 Yes, you mentioned Purifi amp modules; no, I haven't heard one but here's an objective review ...


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: Agree that reviews can be helpful, esp. the objective variety, posted on May 10, 2020 at 14:37:56
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Thanks. I'm planning to get my hands on the new NAD M33 amplifier when it comes out. This uses a Purifi module that I'm told is better than the DirectDigital one found in the current N32. I have the M32 and it's a great box of tricks.

The AGD uses GaN technology - I know absolutely nothing of it, apart from the fact that it's used in a few other amps such as the very costly Merrill Elements ones.

 

RE: Years ago Audion Amps, Silver Night 300B for one, were well respected, posted on May 10, 2020 at 17:48:49
B. Scarpia
 Likely the name was bought?

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on May 11, 2020 at 08:15:50
Mick Wolfe
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Posts: 3365
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Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 That's a plus for you as being direct sales, maybe they offer an in home audition policy.

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on May 11, 2020 at 10:01:19
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > maybe they offer an in home audition policy.

Probably not for UK customers! However they do offer a limited-time free of penalty return scheme. Peter

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on May 11, 2020 at 12:59:52
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Basically a trial period with return - go for it!

Post your findings, please.

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on May 14, 2020 at 06:43:39
HiOnFi
Audiophile

Posts: 1645
Location: Florida
Joined: January 11, 2004
 My reply here is neither to praise nor dump on AGD.

I am a class D fan, especially my Ric SchultZ EVS 1200 (600wpc dual mono IcePower 12200AS II boards. Sadly his health prevents him from making more

If you've ever attended audio shows you should know that many mfgs have no clue how to set up a room. Danny Richie just did a YT video on this subject; at the end he shows some very expensive setups in rooms with ZERO attention paid to room acoustics

So, that the AGD room got an award could have more to do with room set up than the amps

FYI, GaN tech is relatively new to hi-end audio. I fully expect new companies entering the market at MUCH lower prices very soon

 

what's the point of Gallium Arsenide in an audio amp?, posted on May 18, 2020 at 12:02:49
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
 They were invented for microwave and up frequency ultra high speed electronics, like satellite transceivers.

If your baseline switcher oscillator switches "even faster" then that means there are even more high frequency components in that switch stage to filter out before going to the audio band, and maybe all the way up to significant RF. Is that thing switching inside glass tubes with no conductive RFI shell?

The real trick is to null out the various nonlinearities and complex dynamics (by this I mean the physics sense of dynamical systems as in time dependent differential equations of motion) in the loop without generating lots of high frequency garbage which doesn't stay in the wire. (I use a ncore based amp, NAD M22)

 

RE: what's the point of Gallium Arsenide in an audio amp?, posted on May 21, 2020 at 23:29:24
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 844
Joined: August 7, 2000
 GaNs are much faster and have less capacitance and overshoot and ringing compared to a mosfet. This overshoot and ringing causes "dead time" in all class D amps. Dead time causes distortion.....this is universally known. GaNs have practically no dead time.....so, everything being equal they should produce less distortion and better sound. They are also more efficient but class D is already super efficient. This is the point of GaNs.....hopefully better sound.

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on June 13, 2020 at 06:10:07
mikem
Audiophile

Posts: 170
Joined: September 23, 1999
 I don't blame the others for being skeptical about this amp even without hearing it.. Class D amps are basically inexpensive and this amp seems to compensate That with Jewelery.
I would want to hear it first in my system with a descent in home trial with a return policy..

 

RE: what's the point of Gallium Arsenide in an audio amp?, posted on June 13, 2020 at 17:02:56
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > (I use a ncore based amp, NAD M22)

As far as NAD is concerned, the amp technology in your M22 is 3 generations old. The more recent M32 (which I use) uses DirectDigital and the soon-to-be-released M33 uses Purifi. I wonder if NAD's next generation of amps will use GaN technology? I suspect all Class D may move that way.

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on June 13, 2020 at 17:24:56
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > I don't blame the others for being skeptical about this amp even without hearing it.. Class D amps are basically inexpensive and this amp seems to compensate That with Jewelery.
> I would want to hear it first in my system with a descent in home trial with a return policy.

It's obvious that there are far too many active users of AA that jump to inane conclusions on equipment they know absolutely NOTHING about.

I asked for opinions from anyone who owned or had even heard these amps, but what do I get? CRAP from idiots who just like to rubbish things they've never heard, probably never seen, or read about, or even may never before have heard of!

If I asked the same question at other audio forums, I guarantee that I'd get a number of worthwhile and considered replies. It's sad that AA has deteriorated so much during the 16 years I've been here. In fact, unless some of these prolific posters are invited by the moderators to keep their uninformed nonsense to themselves, this forum will become a place to be avoided by anyone genuinely interested in hi-fi and wanting advice.

Of course I agree with you that anyone considering the purchase of this amp would need a home trial with full refund return, but didn't I say that in my original post?

Sorry mikem, I shouldn't pick your reply to snipe at as others have posted far more stupid replies, but if those of us asking for intelligent and helpful information on equipment they aren't familiar with are fed crap from others who obviously know even less, something needs to be said - and I'm prepared to say it.

I see there's an "Alert Moderator" button - I think I'll report this post myself and hope the Moderators take on board the continuing damage being done to the long-past good reputation of this Asylum!

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on June 15, 2020 at 22:56:45
Tidycat1
 Mike Poewell@Verastarr is the OCD Hifi guy.He has quite a number of YouTube videos,comparing dacs,amps and what not.Tries to be honest in presenting different items.The AGDs caught my attention,using the new technology (re-pluggable in a kt-88 housing).Supposedly able to generate 32 amps of current (smaller units).
Give Mr. OCD a shout and ask what can be arranged.He feels strongly about the AGD gear and might loan you a set,depending on where you are.

 

RE: The Audion Mono Amps from AGD Production, posted on June 16, 2020 at 05:04:01
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2383
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Hi Tidicat

Many thanks for the link to Mike at OCD. I'll certainly contact him, though it's unlikely I'll find a loan pair in UK.

AGD has offered to send me a pair with a free of penalty return, but duty and tax may be difficult to resolve if I decide to return them.

Peter

 

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