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Krazy kwestion about older Krell preamps...

68.118.28.250
Posted on July 13, 2017 at 10:36:37
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 I've seen a fairly HUGE number of Krell A/V preamps from the mid/late 90's to the early 2000s sell for VERY little money recently.

Much of this is because they don't have HDMI inputs, so are (for many people) pretty much useless for home theater purposes.

However? I'm willing to bet that SOME of these units have line stages that are VERY similar, or perhaps exactly the same as those found in Krell's stand alone line stages of the day (which still sell for a VERY pretty penny.)

Anyone have info or experience with this?

I'd be more than happy to completely ignore the other 3 to 5 channels & gobs of inputs if I could find something equivalent to say, a KBL or KRC for $300, versus $1200.

 

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Some of them were very good..., posted on July 13, 2017 at 13:09:28
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8445
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007
 You have to remember that the costliest Krell HT AV processor's preamp section design was derived from the Krell separate 2-channel preamp.

Case in point the Krell Evolution 707 AV Preamp was basically a trickle down technology that was originated from the Krell Evolution 2 4-chassis and 202 2-chassis preamps.

If you can find them they are the one to go after...

 

Sure can't argue with you there, kootenay, but that's at least a decade out of my pricerange..., posted on July 13, 2017 at 13:41:58
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 What I can afford is more from the mid 90's to barely breaking into the 2000s as far as production time & apparent street price. :)

I think the key issue is HDMI. The ones that don't have it are considered paperweights on the used market.

 

Ok..., posted on July 13, 2017 at 14:05:48
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8445
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007
 Then the Krell Showcase would be a very good choice.

 

Gotcha! Is there a standalone preamp you could compare that to?, posted on July 13, 2017 at 14:15:51
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 Local guy just had a Showcase for $250 that he shipped to somebody via my shop. Quick ebay search has one at $470...

I'm mostly looking in this direction because if I do an amp upgrade soon, I really want a pre with balanced outputs. AND? I've tended to find preamps/line stages often make a MUCH bigger difference than the amp does.

In other other words? I could find a really scruffy ARC LS3 (which I like a LOT) for little money, and run into unbalanced amps. Or, I can get a great deal on some amps that really prefer a balanced input, and find that standout cheapskate preamp... :)

 

The Showcase's pre amp section design was trickled down..., posted on July 13, 2017 at 15:03:58
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8445
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007
 From Krell Current Tunnel (KCT) Preamplifier.

 

RE: Krazy kwestion about older Krell preamps..., posted on July 14, 2017 at 06:59:25
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 "I'm willing to bet that SOME of these units have line stages that are VERY similar, or perhaps exactly the same as those found in Krell's stand alone line stages of the day (which still sell for a VERY pretty penny.)"

Possibly but I wouldn't count on it because most AV processors that I know of use multi-channel electronic volume control integrated circuits and signal processing to handle multiple channels simultaneously.

A simple 2-ch preamp can get by with a quality 2-gang analog volume pot or a less complex electronic attenuator (vs an AV processor). The volume control is a key element in how a preamp sounds and in my experience a 2-ch preamp will sound better than an AV processor for 2-ch duties.

If I were in the market for a Krell preamp on the cheap I would look to the KAV-280P. They're available in black or silver and to my ears they sound slightly better than the highly regarded (and older) Krell KRC-HR. But either of these may be available in your price range. I owned the KAV-280P for a while and it was very good.



 

Thank you for the input, Abe!, posted on July 14, 2017 at 08:58:47
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 Will certainly add that data to the pile. :)

Also wish I could stumble upon a Pass Aleph P at a great price. Just missed out on a perfect one (without remote) a year or so back - sold at $450. Grrr!

 

I have an ARC LS3B, posted on July 14, 2017 at 12:27:33
G Squared
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Posts: 8474
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
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Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 Still sounds good and may meet all your needs. You can find them used around $500 or so.
Gsquared

 

RE: Krazy kwestion about older Krell preamps..., posted on July 14, 2017 at 19:05:28
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 You can get a HDMI connector adapters in a pinch.

 

Pre?, posted on July 15, 2017 at 10:02:00
bare
Audiophile

Posts: 1879
Joined: April 14, 2009
 IF you are using a powerfull source ie; a CDP, DAC, or most phonos then All you actually need is a Simply Volume control (pot, Attenuator ) and Wires to connect it betwixt source and Amp.
IF there are impedance match issues (sometimes there are sometimes there are not, experiment/) then a Simple Buffer (passdiy.com B1 buffer kit ~40$) .. WILL.. better or at least Equal ..Any.. premade preamp money can buy.
Won't have a sparkly shiny box or bragging rights though.

 

RE: WILL.. better or at least Equal ..Any.. premade preamp money can buy., posted on July 15, 2017 at 11:58:51
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 Forgive me, but in my systems, I have NEVER found that to be the case. FULL STOP.

 

Sigh. The key is? I don't WANT HDMI, posted on July 15, 2017 at 12:03:41
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 I'm looking at non-HDMI multichannel units because what WAS $10,000 just 15 years or so ago can be had today for $250 to $500 with next to no use on it.

2 channel line stages that WERE $10k tend to still be $3k plus.

I picked Krell as an example, because I have at least a bit of familiarity with some of their 2 channel products (KBL, Pam-3, Pam-5, KRS-2), and could be happy with something having the house sound (at least similar to the KRS-2 or KBL).

 

RE: Sigh. The key is? I don't WANT HDMI, posted on July 15, 2017 at 12:48:36
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Ok got ya. Sorry I didn't read the OP more carefully.

 

Yup..., posted on July 15, 2017 at 13:27:09
kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8445
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007
 As usual, it's all about listening preference and taste of music. Having said that, you should look into Classe processors as well as most of its preamp section design was trickled down from their costlier separate preamp model.

 

Keeping my eyes open for an LS3B - had an LS3 & LOVED it., posted on July 16, 2017 at 06:21:05
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 Unfortunately, the B (or, even moreso, the Br (with remote)) doesn't come up terribly often.

Only LS3 I see right now is on ebay, not a B, and about $700...

 

Hope Showcase pre was better than the matching power amps..., posted on July 24, 2017 at 02:00:38
kuma
Audiophile

Posts: 10272
Location: IN
Joined: July 8, 2001
 I auditioned the Showcase power amp for my main channel HT. I was running their FPB series power amp and KPS25s as a pre in the main rig. Let me tell you, the Showcase amp did not sound anything like the Krell I loved. I even preferred my Krell 300i over it. I recall it had a very different voicing.

 

RE: Krazy kwestion about older Krell preamps..., posted on July 25, 2017 at 01:11:19
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 I remember back in the days reading a review in a French magazine about a Krell AV preamplifier and the results were stellar even on 2 channels music.
That said, you cannot always trust a review, and being a "very good preamplifier" doesn't say if it is similar in quality to more audiophile Krell preamps.
For the money, I would give it a go. You might just fall in love and forget you ever wanted to compare.

 

Well, that's kinda exactly what I was asking about. Hoped for experiences between the A/V and 2 chan units..., posted on July 27, 2017 at 13:39:28
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 But? I mostly opened up a can of worms. :(

 

UPDATE: Have an LS3b inbound!, posted on September 11, 2017 at 11:49:00
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 Yeah, it is always nice to try something new, but I'm also VERY much looking forward to getting an LS3 back into one of my systems.

Honestly? Only replaced my original LS3 when I found a VTL Ultimate at a good price. The VTL is staying in my main/office/shop system.

 

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