Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?

yep..........., posted on April 26, 2017 at 10:03:01
Chuck Y Audiophile Posts: 4376 Joined: August 31, 2001	To drive a headphone amp which has a VC.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 26, 2017 at 10:08:58
6bq5 Audiophile Posts: 4393 Location: SF Bay Joined: August 16, 2001	Great question- Varriants: Could it be a Line out- before vol pot? or dual main outs - after Vol Pot Happy Listening

Agree., posted on April 26, 2017 at 10:14:33
csofan Audiophile Posts: 227 Location: IL Joined: August 5, 2003	Very use full for headphone users.

The Rec Out I am asking about would be "before" volume control., posted on April 26, 2017 at 10:27:59
Andy Tebbe Manufacturer Posts: 16 Location: Mid-Atlantic Joined: August 16, 2014	So its volume would not be adjustable. It just sends through the signal that the selector is pointing to, without any attenuation or amplification. As you would want if you were making a cassette recording.

Sure..., posted on April 26, 2017 at 10:54:50
Rod M Web Geek Posts: 16246 Location: So. California Joined: March 1, 1999 Contributor Since: March 1, 1999	I use it to feed a receiver that powers our outdoor speakers, so anything playing on the main system is also in sync in other areas. -Rod

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 26, 2017 at 11:31:06
BRab Audiophile Posts: 962 Joined: January 28, 2002	Used to use an integrated as a phono stage this way.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 26, 2017 at 11:45:12
airtime Audiophile Posts: 11287 Location: Arizona Joined: February 4, 2003	Me personally - I never had a use for it since it's before the VC. If it was after the volume control I would have had plenty of uses for it. But again, that's only me! However there are uses for it that I just never needed it for.

+2 nt, posted on April 26, 2017 at 11:56:16
jec01 Audiophile Posts: 1462 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Joined: September 22, 2004	nt Happy listening, Jim "The passage of my life is measured out in shirts." - Brian Eno

+3, posted on April 26, 2017 at 14:29:58
PAR	Yes indeed. Used to drive my SPL Phonitor 2 headphone amp.

If it's not buffered....., posted on April 26, 2017 at 15:23:25
viridian	......and you leave something hooked up to it, you will be loading the output stage of the preamp, often with deleterious consequences.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 26, 2017 at 15:32:22

Inmate51

The "Rec Out" of my integrated amp is critical. I use it to connect to my 'puter, so I can record to my hard drive from any input on the stereo.

Also, if your company designs preamps or integrated amps, listen to me: Knobs, buttons, tone controls with selectable turnover frequencies, mute, loudness, LF cut, HF roll-off, L/R balance. ALL on the physical unit AND on the remote.

I am completely puzzled as to why manufacturers put some features on a remote, some features on the unit, and totally omit other features. WTF?!

And, I don't want to go through menus!!!!!

(Well, it'd be kinda hard to do the knobs on the remote, but I think you get my point.)

:)

Yes (nt), posted on April 26, 2017 at 16:17:53
Vinyl Valet Audiophile Posts: 1346 Location: Tempe, Arizona Joined: November 13, 2003	nt Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

Use it as intended, posted on April 26, 2017 at 16:47:12
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37673 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	To feed my HRT Line Streamer for digitizing needle drops into Audacity running on a laptop.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 26, 2017 at 17:13:23
Kingshead Audiophile Posts: 574 Location: Florida Joined: September 14, 2016	How else would I make cassette tapes? Kenwood KX-1030 Carver TD-1700 Nakamichi MR1 Martin

I have never had the need, posted on April 26, 2017 at 17:49:10
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46307 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	...but it appears that many others do.

No, posted on April 26, 2017 at 17:50:04
jedrider Audiophile Posts: 15168 Location: No. California Joined: December 26, 2003	I use separate headphone amplifiers for most of my sources. Once in a while I have to fiddle with connections to feed the big amplifier to drive loudspeakers. Of course, I would need something equivalent to a REC OUT! However, the above is true.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 26, 2017 at 17:58:47

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I have always had a recorder in my stereo system. I would never be without a recorder because one of the most important aspects of my audio hobby has been making recordings of phonograph records.

Originally, I used a reel-to-reel tape recorder. When Nakamichi introduced the Dragon cassette recorder I switched to cassette because it was more convenient. The Nakamichi Dragon was not as good as a reel-to-reel, but it came pretty close and it allowed me to trade tapes with a lot of other audio enthusiasts because most people owned cassette tape recorders. When digital audio tape (DAT) was introduced I upgraded to a DAT recorder. Next, I moved on to a CD recorder and then on to a hi-rez PCM digital recorder. Now I have a TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder connected into the tape loop of my new Vacuum Tube Audio SP14 preamp.

Best regards,
John Elison

Same here, posted on April 26, 2017 at 18:03:53
G Squared Audiophile Posts: 8491 Location: Washington, DC Metro Area Joined: November 16, 2004 Contributor Since: May 23, 2023	I do need two sets of outputs for mains amp and sub. Gsquared

RE: If it's not buffered....., posted on April 26, 2017 at 18:08:16
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004	It doesn't load the output stage of the preamp---it loads the output stage of the audio component currently selected for listening. However, my record output is not buffered and I can detect absolutely no problems whatsoever. My TASCAM DA-3000 is connected to my record output and my system sounds just fine to me. Best regards, John Elison

Not since cassettes when obsolete, just a extra preout and HT bypass is fine. nt., posted on April 26, 2017 at 19:26:28
ABliss Audiophile Posts: 1482 Joined: March 16, 2001 Contributor Since: August 3, 2002	AB.

What?!, posted on April 26, 2017 at 20:08:54
Inmate51	What happened to your Parasound A21? (Please don't be negative - our friend John is a nice guy and a great amp designer.) :)

RE: What?!, posted on April 26, 2017 at 20:46:59
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004	I love my Parasound A21. It works just fine and I'm still using it exclusively. It is located on the left side of my turntable behind my left subwoofer.

Sure do, posted on April 26, 2017 at 23:13:55
kavakidd Audiophile Posts: 20316 Location: Upstate NY Joined: April 15, 2004	Sure do - for recording to CDR "Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

Yes, I have 2 preamps and 2 amps + a headphone that I mostly use, posted on April 27, 2017 at 04:25:04
Frihed89 Audiophile Posts: 15703 Location: Copenhagen Joined: March 21, 2005	I have 2 preamps with a rec out. This allows me to pass the digital signal from CDP (only 1 output), untouched from preamp 1 to preamp 2 and from preamp 2, untouched, to a headphone amp. It also allows me to hook up 2 different amps to the two different preamps, with minimal cable changes, and several other combinations. And yes, I have lots of IC and power cables.

Absolutely., posted on April 27, 2017 at 05:17:22
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	Essential to me.

I DO use "REC OUT" on my preamp for my headphone amp. nt, posted on April 27, 2017 at 08:41:27
3+4=5	.

Yes..., posted on April 27, 2017 at 08:42:47
blues4ever Audiophile Posts: 1004 Location: New Mexico Joined: May 28, 2003 Contributor Since: June 22, 2010	I do value/want/use Rec Out on my preamps. I use an Alesis Masterlink 9600 in one of my systems and some sort of pretty modest Sony CD player/recorder that I picked up for $37.50 at a thrift store in one of my other systems. For perfect tone use Columbia Needles For Best results use Victor Needles For best results use OKEH Needles

Respectfully disagree, in an unbuffered tape out the...., posted on April 27, 2017 at 10:46:58

viridian

... input impedance of the driven component is in parallel with the preamp output. Not to say that it will always cause degradation, as you have found. A low impedance preamp output can be unfazed by the parallel impedance a that it sees.

Not sure how the rec out could load the output stage of the attached component as one would attach the rec out to the input of the driven component not the output.

You can respectively disagree all you want, but you're wrong..., posted on April 27, 2017 at 13:11:05

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I just assembled a Vacuum Tube Audio SP14 line-stage preamplifier kit. My TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder is connected to its record-output. The signal to the record-output never enters any active components in the preamp. In fact, I never even turn on my preamp when I make recordings of vinyl records. I leave the preamp turned off. I set the input selector switch to "AUX 1" where my external phono stage is connected. This connects the phono stage directly to my TASCAM DA-3000 through the record-output. I don't turn my preamp on to make recordings because I don't want my speakers playing. I monitor my recordings using headphones connected directly to the headphone jack on my TASCAM DA-3000.

The record-input on my SP14 preamp is connected to the "Tape-Monitor" switch. Unless that switch is in the "Tape" position, the output from my TASCAM is not connected to the preamp. I leave the tape monitor-switch in the "Source" position unless I want to play back a recording through my speakers.

This is exactly the way all preamps with unbuffered record-outputs are configured. The recorder connected to the record-output applies a load only to the source component through the input selector switch; it does not apply any kind of a load to the preamp output.

My SP14 preamp has two main outputs separate from the record-output. The main outputs are in parallel and require the preamp to be turned on. My Parasound A21 amplifier is connected to one set of main outputs and my active subwoofers are connected to the second set of main outputs. The loads of these components are in parallel although they use separate output capacitors.

I think you need to reevaluate your thinking on unbuffered record-outputs.

Good luck,
John Elison

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 27, 2017 at 14:04:04
SgreenP@MSN.com Audiophile Posts: 3538 Joined: April 23, 2007	I use record out to go to a headphone amp/headphone setup.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 27, 2017 at 15:11:22
docw Audiophile Posts: 8115 Location: So. California Joined: July 23, 2004 Contributor Since: November 29, 2004	That is what I am doing, from my pretty good SS integrated to a Denon AVR, which selects an input. Everything I run into the integrated plays thru the Denon. Perhaps I shouldn't do that, but there is no obvious degradation and I am no longer so perfectionistic.

Just asking., posted on April 28, 2017 at 05:49:17
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	Does that headphone jack actually allow you to monitor the recording as you are making it, or just monitor the input to the DA-3000?

No (nt), posted on April 28, 2017 at 06:15:12
Jack G Audiophile Posts: 9740 Joined: September 24, 1999	.

I use two tape loops, posted on April 28, 2017 at 06:19:11
reuben Audiophile Posts: 1639 Joined: September 28, 2004	One for the talking machine and the other for signal processing. Dark energy? Ridiculous! We live in an electric universe.

RE: Just asking., posted on April 28, 2017 at 06:37:47
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004	I don't really know because I've never tested it. I suspect it monitors the digital conversion, which is the digitized input signal converted back to analog. That's what the Alesis Masterlink did. Why do you ask?

RE: Just asking., posted on April 28, 2017 at 07:53:11
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	Just curious. I've never known how faithful my old Tascam CD-RW700 really is -- at dubbing stuff -- because I can't monitor the actual dub. And as a playback unit, it's pretty dismal (unless I run it into an outboard DAC).

RE: Just asking., posted on April 28, 2017 at 08:21:44

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I never had any problems with my CD-RW700. Of course, it records to a CD-R and if the CD-R is dirty or damaged you will undoubtedly have problems. It's a different story with the TASCAM DA-3000, which records to a solid state memory card. It makes perfect recordings every time for me.

Its DAC is outstanding as far as I can tell. It has BurrBrown PCM1795 DAC chips and its analog output stage must also be very good because it sounds better than any DAC that I've heard in its price range. Furthermore, it can be used as an external DAC without putting it in the record mode. It can be configured to operate as a DAC from its menu. For a thousand dollars it's one of the most versatile digital components I've ever owned. I can plug in a USB flash drive and use it as an autonomous digital player for PCM up to 24/192 and DSD up to 5.6-MHz and it sounds very good to me.

Best regards,
John Elison

TASCAM DA-3000 DSD Recorder

RE: Just asking., posted on April 28, 2017 at 09:06:51
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	Even if I grant that it's all you say it is -- and I have no reason to doubt this -- I'd sure rather be able to monitor and directly compare input to output, as I can with an open reel deck and thus KNOW I'm getting (or not getting) "perfect recordings." On the other hand, with ears as old as mine, what difference does it make? :-)

RE: Just asking., posted on April 28, 2017 at 09:26:36

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I think you should stick with open reel because I don't think you'll find a digital recorder that monitors the recorded media in real time as it's being recorded. The best you'll get is monitoring of the digital conversion in real time as it's being stored in memory. You'll have to replay the recording to know for certain whether what's in memory is what you expect to be in memory. However, you already own open reel tape recorders so you're in good shape. Of course, the cost of open reel media is probably ten thousand times more than the cost of digital media. Oh, well. Such is life!

Best regards,
John Elison

RE: Poll: Yes, Acoustat RP2A, posted on April 28, 2017 at 11:31:04

BigguyinATL
Manufacturer

Posts: 3475
Joined: April 10, 2002

I use the Phono section and a couple of the Line level ins - Normally the selected input (usually one of the 3 phono inputs) go out the Tape Output to to my receiver"Tape in", I send the Tape out from the receiver to send back into the Preamp line section - the RP2 has two sets of buffered outputs post volume knob - one of those drive a mixer that can drive my power amps on my main system in pure analog so I can run a straight analog from Phono to Power amp. The other line ins is from my oppo digital source or my Sound Devices USBpre2 D-A section. The other output of the Preamp goes to a Audio source Amp for hole house audio and a dedicated NAD2150 power amp that drive my outdoor loudspeakers for parties.

"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius

Yep....lets me use my CJ Prem. 3 as a dedicated phono stage. Quite handy in that regard. , posted on April 28, 2017 at 15:02:22
Mick Wolfe Audiophile Posts: 3365 Location: AZ Joined: October 10, 1999 Contributor Since: September 4, 2000	NT

"... ten thousand times...", posted on April 29, 2017 at 04:49:49
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	Since tape sounds only five thousand times better than digital, I've clearly been wasting my money. Such is life.

Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 29, 2017 at 07:47:50
Justlisten2 Audiophile Posts: 1266 Location: SE PA Joined: March 8, 2001	No, haven't used the REC OUT function in more than 20 years.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 29, 2017 at 09:03:04
Steve. Audiophile Posts: 250 Location: East Coast Joined: July 2, 2007	Must have for a headphone amp.....

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 29, 2017 at 10:33:25
stereo5 Audiophile Posts: 1356 Location: New England Joined: June 22, 2008	Yes, I use the tape in/out for my rumble filter for turntable. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on April 29, 2017 at 10:44:53
Justlisten2 Audiophile Posts: 1266 Location: SE PA Joined: March 8, 2001	I don't own a headphone amp, or headphones. Gasp!

RE: "... ten thousand times...", posted on April 29, 2017 at 13:39:02

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

Actually, tape doesn't sound any better than digital. You can prove this to yourself by using your TASCAM DA-3000 to make a 5.6-MHz DSD recording of one of your tapes. You'll find the DSD recording sounds identical to your tape. It only costs a lot less.

It costs less for a DSD recorder than an open reel tape recorder and it costs a lot less for the storage media. However, DSD sounds just as good as tape if not better!

It's much easier to make digital recordings, too. No need to monitor the recording because it comes out perfect every time and no more cleaning tape heads!

Such is life!

Never have used it... N/T, posted on April 29, 2017 at 13:51:08
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31879 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	aa "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

+ 1.......nt., posted on May 1, 2017 at 08:10:14
ABliss Audiophile Posts: 1482 Joined: March 16, 2001 Contributor Since: August 3, 2002	Nt

Interesting, posted on May 2, 2017 at 09:36:21
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37673 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	That seems to be the prevalent response to the question. Actually, my preamp has a headphone stage and the garage based DAC does also but I use neither. For IEM use, I just plug them directly into my phone or pad. Oddly enough, I use the output for the original purpose - I record vinyl to digital via Audacity. :)

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on May 3, 2017 at 13:00:26
SteveM324 Audiophile Posts: 164 Location: Michigan, USA Joined: January 25, 2002	Absolutely for my headphone amp. I wouldn't buy a preamp without it.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on May 12, 2017 at 11:52:46
bondmanp Audiophile Posts: 578 Location: Central NJ Joined: September 11, 2002	I have one tape loop, wish I had two or three!!!! Yes, I record (digitize vinyl), and yes, I occasionally us an equalizer! And I am not ashamed to admit it!!!

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on May 20, 2017 at 19:01:05

gordguide
Audiophile

Posts: 302
Joined: January 20, 2002

It's a very useful option to have. The input and output impedances are correct to interface with a wide range of gear, you can use just the input or output alone, and it doesn't necessarily mean a sonic penalty if properly implemented.

You can use almost any form of processing component with one, not just tape decks. Overall, it's a nice feature that isn't absolutely necessary but sure is nice to have.

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" .. No., posted on May 21, 2017 at 08:59:43
bare Audiophile Posts: 1879 Joined: April 14, 2009	Only ever used it when I dubbed Cassettes. And those haven't been around for a "while" :-) Currently I don't even use OR own a preamp

RE: Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?, posted on May 21, 2017 at 17:39:06
SgreenP@MSN.com Audiophile Posts: 3538 Joined: April 23, 2007	Use rec out into a dedicated headphone amp then to headphones. Works great.

Amp/Preamp Asylum

Poll: Do you value / want / use "REC OUT" on your preamp?

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