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In Reply to: can someone explain the concept of PRaT and... posted by analog guy on May 9, 2007 at 16:14:11:
. . . is an AC-synchronous/belt-driven turntable running 1% to 2% too fast.When selling such turntables, be sure to pooh-pooh quartz direct drive, and talk about the motor "hunting around" for the right speed.
Follow Ups:
I am sure that the nad i have is fast. i wouldn't have it any other way. I think it is an attribute. sort of like certain order harmonics.additionally i have heard it said that the DDs have 'drive' and 'purpose.' Idlers have a very 'direct connection' and serious forward movement.
~ Pat O'Malley
... is that things like 'drive' and 'serious forward movement' imply an additive element.PRaT either exists in music or not, right? if so, can't it either be conveyed or lost?
i could see someone saying:
"a [insert favorite belt-drive table that is out-of-favor with an idler crowd] killed the PRaT of this record."i do not understand:
"[idler- or DD-of-choice] really has PRaT."(i've heard some great belt-drives and some terrible ones, as i've heard some great and some lacking DDs & idlers....so i'd rather keep the implementation of the technology out of the discussion.)
I have heard cartridges that did not ahve this PRaT thing.For instance the Denon DL-160 has PRaT out the ass, ass they say. Perky, exciting, on top of the beat. fast on detail. I have heard anotehr cartridge that was more detailed but a bit boring. Too smooth. [there's another amorphous term for you] And the Dl-103 has TONE as it's forte.
Sometimes terms like speed, tone, smooth, can convey better than this PRaT term. Paced, rhytym, and timing may really mean different things to different people. Maybe we can come close with the other terms...
But we are ultimatly talking about equipment the entire time ...
~ Pat O'Malley
...we all make our choices.when people say that component X has PRat, can i assume that it adds "pace, rhythm and timing" to otherwise bland records? :) i do have some duds in the collection where the musicians could have used a bit more inspiration @ the session. :)
i can understand your point about gear NOT having the ability to convey something....but adding pace/rhythm/timing seems to be, well, assinine!
It's a crap shoot ! If you werent there at the time of the
recording of the music how do you know if a component is adding
or taking away the pace rythem and timing. It's only a guess.
Of course IMHO
...that unless one was "there" it's hard to say what "should be there" on the recording (although that's kind of standard audiophile stuff).however, pace and timing doesn't seem to fall in the same category. how do you think a "component is (could be) adding" pace, rhythm and timing? subtract? yes. add? fill me in, please....
A component might be said to emphasise certain areas of the frequency spectrum at the expense of others, which might appeal to a particular listeners set of musical priorities.The LP12 is often stated to be at or near the top of the tree in the PRaT department, but it isn't regarded as a strictly neutral design. The traditiona; Naim sound has often been described similarly, hence the apparent synergy of these products when used together.
Again, all in IMHO.
Cheers!
I don't really think about anything other than neutrality. I agree though that a lot of the tables that are supposed to have "prat" or less tha neutral and have more of a "sound" and sometimes it;s a good sound, like a thorens 124. But, i think some of the high end tables will give you that slam and neutrality.
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