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In Reply to: Question for Viktor Khomenko: balanced phono stage posted by silverbug on August 06, 2000 at 10:44:29:
***Since cartridges are sort of balanced R+, R- and L+ and L- already.Cartridge is actually not a balanced source, it is what is more properly called 'floating' source. Floating source can be treated any way you want.
There was a good discusion to that effect just some time ago on rec.audio.tech if I remember right.
So the cartridge doesn't really need balanced connection, and in addition you get 6dB noise advantage when treating it in single-ended fashion. With tubes that is very important.
***Have you ever tried to make a balanced phono stage with a sort of floating ground? (I know this wouldn't be balanced but,...)I believe our two phono stage do what you are asking - if I inderstand you correctly.
***How about designing a truly balanced cartridge with 3 pins aside rather than 2. This could kick some ass the same way balanced DACs sound better single ended.
Again, I don't think so - I see some differences in these two cases. a cartridge with the third pin would probably create more problems than it would solve. I think it is better left floating.
Follow Ups:
It was just a thought. I know you have done alot of work in balanced configurations from the past.
I read a while back that a British high end company made a balanced phono stage and Wilson Benecsh had a tonearm with balaned cables. Any comments on this design?
TI think the phono stage you are referrinf to is made by Chord in the UK. WB do sell a balanced version of their Act 2 tonearm, but I must say I'm not sure if it is simply the Act 2 with a balanced cable, or whether they are doing something more. They terminate the headshell wires with the standard DIN connector, so it shou;d be possible to make or attach a balanced cable for any of their arms.-Joe.
Thank you for reminding me. I read a review of it in HiFi News and they seemed to think that it lowered the noise floor. I admit I have not heard this, but thought the idea was interesting.
Cartridges only have 4 pins R+ R- and L+ L-. There is no ground. That means the ground has to float at the phono stage. Is this Chord phono stage truly balanced?
Viktor is right about cartridge design not being truly balanced though. There is no point in having a balanced phono stage and floating ground cartridge. (Unless of course you had a long cable run between phono stage and preamp/amp) I still think it would be very cool if some radical designer built a 6 pin balanced cartridge although this would be a proprietary one off design. Imagine the blacker blacks and improvements in dynamics with extraneous electrical noise gone. Especially on an electomagnetic device like a cartridge. I only asked because BAT, Theta and Sonic Frontiers is huge on balanced designs. But then again some guys like Blue Circle, Cary and YBA think it's a waste of additional circuitry. Personally I like running balanced lines and think they sound quieter and more robust.
> > Viktor is right about cartridge design not being truly balanced though. < <You may want to check out a thread which recently ran on rec.audio.high-end dealing with this very same subject. Victor's position seems to differ from the opinions offered by several *very* respected research scientists and design engineers [JJ, Dick Pierce, Stewart Pinkerton]. Not being an engineer myself, I can't offer an opinion on the validity of the arguments presented; however, having lived with a fully balanced phono setup for the last three years, I certainly do not wish to go back to single ended operation.
Best Wishes,
Felix
Why don't you share with us a technical description of the set-up you're using and how you achieve fully balanced operation.
What phono stage are you using now? I spoke with a representative from Sonic Frontiers (Chris Johnson if I recall correctly) and he told me a similar story to Mr. Khomenko about the pseudo balanced nature of cartridges.(floating ground vs true balance)I'm very interested in following up on this. I'm also new to this forum and being Canadian enjoying a 3 day weekend with some extra time.
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