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Over the weekends I finally replaced my flimsy home-made tt wall mount with a much more beefier (3/4" MDF and solid steel brackets mounted on studs) one.Compared to my CD rig (Copland CDA288), my analog rig sounded diffused and undynamic on previous shelf. Witht the new shelf I heard improved dynamics and focus. The soundstage depth that was hardly perceived before was now better presented.
However, I'm still not satisfied. Compared to CD my records still sounded less dynamic and less transparent.
Any suggestions on what next move should I do to make my analog playback better?
My analog setup is:
Rega Planar 3 (not P3) on PS audio PP300
Stacked Vibrapod/AQ Sorbothane cups (or BDR cones) under tt
RB300 stock arm
Grado Platinum regular output
Lehmann Black Cube phono preamp with upgraded OPA627/OPA6234/AD825 opampWhat change can I make to most effectively improve the current setup
I relied on a acknowledged dealer in tt tuning but plan to buy tools for further adjustments/verifying.
Also, what about the flimsy gray stock phono cords on Planar 3? Will rewiring it with better cables vastly improve it? From my past experience with CD-amp interconnects I'm expecting the transparency to be improved.
Any comments welcome!
Follow Ups:
I would throw away all feet/pods/cones.Just have it sit right on a light, rigid shelf.
The Dynavector cart. will do wonders. It needs only a 2mm spacer for VTA, I am pretty sure. I have the 20xh -- 2mm spacer for it.
Why don't you take the table to a hi fi shop and have a professional make sure it's correctly set up and calibrated?
If I were in the original poster's situation, I'd do the followings (in the given order);1. Get a light and rigid support, and use the stock feet. Wall shelf if there's footfall problem, or Ikea Lack.
2. Replace the Grado with Dyna 10x4. Personally I would not spend more on the cartridge with Planar 3. You can keep the Grado as a backup cartridge (One always needs a backup ;-). You might consider Goldrings, Roksan Corus or Rega Elys/Super Elys as an alternative choice of cartridges.
3. Get the P3 motor upgrade from Rega.
4. Get the arm rewired. I hear that Incognito is excellent.One does not need to do all of this. I would most definitely do 1 right now, and follow through with 2 as soon as funding is available. The rest can wait, or even be skipped in favor of a TT upgrade.
Hi Jlee,Thanks for the excellent advises and the priority list. Indeed priority is my main question now.
I think I got #1 solved just last weekend by installing a rigid wall mount (floor is indeed bouncy). Currently BDR cones are in use but the stock feet will be tried for comparison too.
My position now is that, after a fix on bias/antiskate (reported in the link below), the sound has been much more acceptable. But where do I head for now?
The thing I struggle the most is this Grado cart. Is it really so bad, comparing to Dyna 10x4, Goldring Eroica/1042, or Rega Elys?
I still have Elys, but it sounded distorted, probably due to worn stylus or bad setting. That's why couple years ago I brought it to a dealer and had him fix it, and in the process purchased the Grado from him too. Is it worthwhile to retip Elys?
I am still building experience on analog. So I'd really appreciate any advises from experienced, especially regarding priority on the following moves. With limited budget (for the moment, at least), I need to go for the most cost effective one first.
Cheers.
Ehien
i had a grado with my p25, and i hated it. it was an $800 grado. it was just dead as a doornail. dynavector will be, repeat WILL be, a massive improvement. nothing against grados -- they sound great on other turntables. just not rega.
Ehien,I'm not an expert on Grado carts. I've heard one at a shop, and it did not suit my taste. No experience with it on my system.
With that said, my feeling is that rega and grado are pursuing different types of presentations. Therefore I would not call it a synergistic match, but you might find that the combination has the right balance for you.
You mentioned that your table still comes short on dynamics, focus and transparency. That is what I heard when I tried the Grado at the shop. By going to dynavector or roksan, you will lose a bit of warmth compared to grado, but it won't sound cold and sterile. I think it will still have the natural, warm and effortless sound compared to CDs.
I included Elys because I have some experience with it, it is decent if not spectacular, it is relatively cheap and it is plug and play on rega decks. You get discount on the new rega cartridges by turning in the old one. I hear (from trusted source) that the super elys is quite good but don't have direct experience.
Take your time and enjoy the music. It's the most cost-effective way :-)
I had mine setup by an experienced dealer. But guess I fussed around with bias afterward and degrade the sound. It's back to normal now.Well the Planar 3 can't sit on its own as the motor housing is protruding under the plinth. I'm now using 3 BDR carbon cones in place of original 3 rubber feet.
Yeah I long for the Dyna 10x4 in place of current Grado Platinum. But the Grado has low hours and even not as good, may give me acceptable sound after more tweaking. I'll keep an eye on this. When I optimize everything around it, I may start considering a better cart like Dyna or something even better, as long as my humble Rega can keep up.
This is fun, isn't it!
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Sand filled copper tube shelf supports rising up through the floor from concrete slabbed basement to rigid lightweight shelf supporting Planar 3. I use Phil Wood green bicycle grease to lube the main bearing and I'm using a Maxon DC motor mounted externally and driving the platter with 1/2" VCR tape. A Variable DC power supply drives the motor and allows for easy speed changes between 331/3 qnd 45rpm. I'm also currently experimenting with a vinyl non slip mat that seems to make things sound more focused and "solid" So far I'm quite happy with teh mods and of course all is reversible. I'm using a NOS B&O MMC2 cart (with adaptor) given to me and this cart is surprisingly smooth, fast and neutral.
Belt made by VCR tape?! Wow! Never imaged it in my life.Thanks for the cool photo. With the bouncy elevated wooden floor I have, the only place to mount the tt is on studs behind wall. Wish I had as strong foundation for all my audio gears as yours, though.
I have two Rega 3's, both stock when I got them. I did the following to one of them:
New P3 motor
Incognito tonearm wiring
Express Machining heavyweight
Rega Exact cartridge ($280 on ebay)No contest. The hot rodded TT blows the stock one (Elys cartridge) away. Huge difference in all respects, but since I made all the chages at once I don't know what the incremental improvement for each change was.
Can't agree more about the sorbo and 10x4. The Dyna cartridge is going to transform the setup to a different performance level. Your arm might need a 4mm spacer, as the Dyna is taller than most cartridge.
Also consider the Incognito wiring as well as the Origin Live's...
Thanks for the answer before question. :-) I was wondering if there was height difference between Grado and Dynavector or what is the optimal height for proper VTA on Rega.Now I get it. But where do I get this 4mm spacer? Since I'm planning on rewiring, I might as well intall this spacer and getting ready for Dyna.
I found a very nice step-by-step instruction of rewiring RB300 on Internet. So I'll first try to figure out if the phono cable can be made of my favorite CCC (Continuous Cast Copper) wires from Chimera Labs.
You can get the spacer at any Rega dealers or at needledoctor.com... several other sites sell this item as well.I am not sure about the height difference between the Dyna and other cartridges. My Rega dealer installed it for me. From his experience a Rega arm +Dyna cart will always require a spacer.
I think the required height is closer to 2mm (I've used a 10x4 on an RB300 for around a year), and you can get something called a "bicycle headset washer" at a sports shop for a dollar or so that will work. I have no idea what it does on a bicycle, but I went up to the counter and asked and the guy knew what it was, and he brought out things that looked like the pictures on the Needle Doctor site, so I figured they were the right things :) I don't know if the Rega washers are much better machined or not, that may make a difference.
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I do mountain biking but never used it. Guess it's the washer used to raise headset and thus handle bar. If it's cheaper than $15 from tt shop or more readily available, I may get it instead.
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If your looking for dynamics, I think the Grado cart is a poor choice. There are lots of people who love the Grado sound, but it's a little too laid back for my tastes, and probbably yours too. Sure, the midrange is very rich and the bass is good, but the high frequencies are rolled off WAAAYYY too much, IMO, and thats where your percieved lack of dynamics is manifesting itself. If I had your table I would try any of these; Goldring Eroica, Rega Super Elyss,Ortofon OM30, just to name a few. Any of the above can be had for a couple of hundred bucks from various dealers at audiogon.com. Plus, if you ever decide to sell/upgrade your TT, the Grado will make a good spare for that.
Guess my dealer highly recommended Grado due to the warmth and nice vocal it brought.However these two things are not in any way lacking in other part of my system for my taste. I want foot tapping, transparent, detailed, and emotional sound.
Wonder how your suggestions compare to Dyna 10x4? The latter one seems to be a favorite here for the qualities I look for.
The Dynavector is great of course, but I don't feel its any better than the Goldring Eroica at half the price. You're just paying an outrageuos import duty and I'm not sure how to get around it unless you have a cousin in Japan. I bought my Goldring from Canada and avoioded that. Either way it will be an improvement in the things you're looking for.
Thanks for the link. This one will be on my short list too.
Don't take any of this as gospel but here are a few suggestions...First, (and also free) loose the sorbothane/vibrapods. Its been my experience that light unsuspended tables (like the rega) tend to respond best when placed directly on light rigid racks (like you MDF wall mount). Might also want to look at some aluminum cones to replace the stock feet. Anyway give this a try it should help sharpen things up...
Second, the Grado Carts are not particularly known for their speed and dynamics. The platinum (and the lower prestige line) tend to sound thick and slow, without being particularly detailed. The midrage is glorious but ultimately I found the grado a little too bloated for my taste, sounds like a dynavector 10x4 might be just what the doctor ordered...
Third, certainly look into rewiring and some structural mods (do a search here for Origin Live). This should help boast perfomance of RB300 and give you a little more clarity throughout the audio spectrum.
Fourth, look into getting a motor upgrade to bring your Planar 3 up to the level of the current P3. For only a little over $100 the benefits far outway the paltry cost.
Anyway these are a few suggestions to get the ball rolling. You've got a nice system with great potential, a few tweeks and you just might forget CDs were ever invented...
Cheers,
Sebastian,Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions.
For the first suggestion, actually by the end of last night I replaced four Vibrapods/Sorbothane feet with three Black Diamond Racing carbon fiber cones #3. I haven't done serious audition on them yet, but I seemed to hear better focuse, tighter bass, and better soundstage. The transparency didn't seem to improve. Will spend more time with these cones, maybe even try #4 cones that're currently used under my tube amp. I can also try Aurios currently uder CDP. But their tendency to swing does concern me a bit.
Between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th suggestions, I might go for either 3rd or 4th first, as getting another cart. of 2nd will cost more than others. But when I do it, judging from your suggestion and what other inmates have posted here, Dynavector 10x4 seems to be what I'm looking for, i.e., dynamics and resolution.
I might go for rewiring as the first step in hope of getting higher resolution and transparency.
I'm not sure what benefits the motor upgrade will bring. But I'll likely do it after rewiring.
Hope these sound like a good plan. I've gotten to realize the importance of system optimization in my digital playback. I understand that such thing is even more important in analog systems.
Cheers.
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