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My Benz Micro Glider H is showing its age these days, putting me in the market for something new. The output om my sample is 2.7mv. Trouble is, I can't get the volume control on my CJ PV 9a past about 8 o'clock. Would this phono preamp section have enough gain to accommodate a medium or low output unit with gain about 0.5 to 0.8?
Component gains/sensitivity:
CJ phono 47 db, line stage 31 db.
Mac MC 462 2.1 V for for full output, unbalanced.
Von Schweikert VR 4 jr about 90 db.
I am looking for a warmer sound than the Benz, since the rest of my system is more neutral than before, but I would hate to sacrifice the clarity of the Glider, not an easy balance to get, I know. I have a top budget of $1000-1500.
Pinging John Elison: Like myself, you have a SOTA TT and an SME tone arm so you might have a good idea of what will track well in this setup.
But thanks to all for any suggestions. BTW, Denon 103's seem a favorite, but (not to be too demanding), if anyone suggests a Denon 103, please be specific, as I'll be damned if I can keep up with all the versions plus re-tipping by Soundsmith.
Thanks again for any help.
LowIQ
Follow Ups:
I believe that teenage diplomat is correct. You really need about 60db of gain and MC loading to handle anything in the 0.5mv range. I have a Glider that I finally got retipped and haven't used it yet, but in the meantime I bought an Otofon and Denon 103D and finally got a Shelter 501. Both the Denon and Shelter are warmer than the Glider with the Shelter being more detailed. All of those are about 0.5mv which could be an issue for you.
If you're interested in trying a Denon, ping me.
-Rod
I just picked up the AT-ARTxi.
I am really surprised how much I like it. It blows away my backup cartridge, the very good Hana SL. I think I like it more than my regular cartridge, the Lyra Delos for half the price. I went for the XI as I wasn't sure I had enough gain (using the Coincident Statement Phono Stage with its built in volume pots without using a line stage) for the XA. The XI has a useful .5mv output which makes it easy to use, gives me lots of gain in my setup. Transparent and pure sounding in the midrange, very dynamic and lively. Tight bass. . Slightly rising top end works well in my tube/electrostatic system, might be a bit bright in certain other systems.
Buying cartridges is a bit of a crapshoot, but I can definitely recommend the AT-ARTxi.
Nt
Yes! About 3 years ago (after having my Orbe for over a decade) I purchased "Pete's Pylons" from True-Point Audio in England (with Peter's help!). Easy to go from springs to o-ring pylons, takes less than a hour and the same time to convert the deck back to stock form. Really no comparison, much more focused, detailed sound with the pylons. Next upgraded my techno arm to a Moerch DP-8 with help from Mehran at Sorasound (another great guy to work with!). Another big improvement. My Orbe is set for another decade at least.
Nt
benz is on the warmer side of spectrum ..
more warm? koetsu, miyabi. dynavectorII and dynavector DRT, ortofon spu and other vintage ortofon cartridges like sl15 . but really, not a whole lot of modern cartridges that are more warm .you may need to dig into mid-80s cartrides
like sony xl55, entre etc.
art9 is neutral. it tries to be like lyra titan but is really more like helikon.
most modern ortofons
A Glider isn't terribly warm. The Wood bodies is where Benz gets the rep for warmth, so it should be a good move for OP. Koetsu is certainly warmer yet, though.
I use low-output moving coils exclusively and I believe that Audio Technica makes the best moving coils today. I have the Audio Technica ART7 mounted in my SME V and it sounds spectacular. However, if I were buying a new cartridge today, I would buy the Audio Technica ART9XA , which sells for $1290. It has 0.2-mV rated output, but if you need slightly higher output, the Audio Technica ART9XI has 0.5-mV rated output and costs the same.
If you want the cartridge that I consider to be the best in the world, buy the Audio Technica ART1000 , which costs $5000.
Good luck,
John Elison
So is the ART9XA an improvement? It does have higher output, and a higher price. My ART7 is due for a replacement this year so I'm pondering re-tipping at a much lower price. I wish I could bring myself to spend $5000 on an ART1000 so I could be assured of an upgrade!
Why do you say the ART7 is no longer available? It's still listed by Audio Technica and LP Gear . However, the ART9XA should be a better cartridge because it has slightly higher output as well as lower coil inductance. Therefore, I would recommend the Audio Technica ART9XA .
Good luck!
John Elison
It is not available directly from Audio Technica, from whom I purchased the one I have. Retailers may be selling their remaining stock. I'm surprised some are still available, so thank you for the link.
I use the ART7 personally, love that cartridge.
Yes, the ART7 is excellent. If I were still playing records, I'd probably buy the ART1000, or at least the ART9XA, which has slightly higher output than the ART7 and even lower coil inductance. I feel that the lower the coil inductance, the better the sound. In addition to having the lowest coil inductance of all Audio Technica cartridges, the ART1000 also has its coils mounted just above the stylus for the most accurate audio reproduction. I have several high-resolution digital recordings of the ART1000 and its sound quality is beyond reproach.
Best regards,
John Elison
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. I have had Sumiko Talisman and Alchemst's, Dynavector 10x5 and the 20XXXX, but they've all been hi output.
I've never had Audio-Tech cartridges, but might be willing to try one. Any comments on the build quality in the sense of operating longevity and/or quality control. As I replied to another poster, the Glider performed awfully well for a long time with no issues.
LowIQ
All of my Audio Technica moving coils have been very reliable and very durable. Additionally, they're simply the best sounding low-output moving coils I've ever owned.
Good luck!
John Elison
I've used a wide variety of MC carts, including the Sumiko Blackbird HOMC, the Dyna 10x5 HOMC, the Dyna xx2MK2 MC, the Shelter 90x MC, the AT ART7 low output MC and now the AT ART1000 low output MC. I've been extremely fortunate - only one of those carts (the Blackbird) gave me any reliability issues. (Its suspension progressively gave out over the course of the year I had it in service, requiring either a rebuild or retirement. I chose the latter.) Both the ATs I've used have been flawless performers both sonically and from a reliability/longevity perspective. NOTE - be sure you have enough gain in your phono section's MC input (at least 60db in my experience, and more is better) if you choose any of the mentioned AT options. If you don't, you will need a step-up transformer. I highly recommend Bob's Devices step up transformers as being both of high quality and relative affordability. I use one set at 20db gain in front of the MM phono stage in my preamp. Hope this helps.
The Bob's Devices blue label CineMags (1131, Sky) will certainly warm up and add meat to the bones of any low output MC cartridge OP pairs with it (given appropriate loading and SUT ratio consideration). These SUTs have a very vibrant, pleasing sound. I think OP would love it, given his request for more warmth. The problem is fitting both that AND a new MC cartridge in the listed budget. If his Glider wasn't worn, he should just try the SUT and (quite possibly) be happy.I got a used Bob's Devices Sky 20 for $650, but even that doesn't leave much room for a new MC (though an new Glider SL for $800 could work?). The CineMag 1254 sounds very close to the Sky, at $360 for a pair which could be thrown in an affordable box w/ RCA connectors. But none of this will help the issue he has with preamp volume control being pegged near 0. His preamp simply has a very difficult gain structure to work with in modern systems. It's maybe good if you have extremely high power, low gain amps paired to very low efficiency, high power handling speakers (an extremely unlikely combination) - that's the only way 31dB of line stage gain makes sense.
Edits: 01/11/22 01/11/22 01/11/22
Some of those older full function tube preamps have ludicrously high line stage gain (31 dB!!) which in combination with high MM stage gain allows for MC cartridges to be run from them.What you have is the same net gain as a much more typical 67dB MC phono stage plus 11dB line stage. In theory you could run a low output 0.3mV - 0.5mV MC cartridge just fine. The problem is that without the MC gain up front before RIAA, you might (or might not) notice a lack of dynamics in the resulting sound, though the overall volume level might be fine? I can't say.
In your setup I'd be tempted to try a Benz Zebrawood L/M/H (from Audiogon, at the top end of your budget), but I don't know which of the 3 output levels would be optimal for your preamp, since its configuration is unusual. I'd probably go for "M" in that case. You get lighter more nimble coils than H and you get a lot of your volume control range back.
I had a Glider L2 and a Wood M2 and SM - the new Zebrawood is much, much better than these models.
Edits: 01/10/22
Thanks for the reply. I had not even thought about the RIAA matter, just the gain. I liked the Glider's overall sound, but it's just not a good fit for what I have now. However, it performed flawlessly for a long time, a point in favor of getting another Benz. Gosh, I wish I could A/B these things, since $1000-1500 is a lot of dough to me to spend sound unheard, and I just won't buy a used cartridge.
LowIQ
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