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24.20.10.236
In Reply to: RE: KIND OF BLUE sold out! posted by ecl876 on May 20, 2021 at 17:52:29
Nt
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I'll make mine, why buy a copy when originals are plentiful and cheap? Most of us already have several copies in our collections. One of mine is an original 6-eye Columbia where the order of the two songs on side 2 is reversed on the jacket, due to an error. Rare huh? Ah no, you could buy a copy for under $50, have the original item and still money left over to buy another three Tone Poets when Target has their buy 2 get 1 free sale.
paid $30 for it at a record show in 2003.
But, to be fair, I've seen VG+ copies for sale on Discogs for $200.
But, to be fair the other way, with Columbia I don't think it's essential to get a first press or even an early press. Six-eye, two-eye, red/orange, they all sound pretty much the same.
I have a copy of Ah Um on the red with mottled black Columbia label, pressed by Sterling in the late 1990s or something and it sounds really good. I prefer it to my two-eye copy.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Please point me to a near mint original pressing of Kind of Blue that is cheap. I will buy it!!! And of course the bigger point is that not all verisons are sonically equal. This is an audiophile forum. There does tend to be a particular interest in sound quality. The point of this new reissue is supposedly a better sounding version. One that you can't buy anywhere else.
I suppose the magic vinyl and curated tape player and system can overcome that inconvenient observation and result in more audiophile fodder and a better sounding record. Fair enough, and in that context a good buy for someone.
No idea about mint, and near mint, as these have never been considerations for me. Why not just ask for a sealed copy from the 1950s?
"I suppose the magic vinyl and curated tape player and system can overcome that inconvenient observation and result in more audiophile fodder and a better sounding record."No. No magic here. But what we do have is a record cut directly from the three track master tape as opposed to a third generation stereo mix that has EQ, compression and rolled highs and lows. We also have Bernie Grundman's vastly better custom mastering chain with a superior cutting amp. And we have Bernie Grundman who knew how and did cut the the record without the compression, EQ, rolled bass and rolled highs of the original cut. THAT can and does make for a better sounding record.
Not to mention vastly superior vinyl formulations and far greater care taken with the pressings. Columbia did not have the best rep for quiet vinyl even when fresh off the presses
"Fair enough, and in that context a good buy for someone."
And in the actual context of facts that you seemed to have missed It's a good buy for soemone interested in sound quality
"No idea about mint, and near mint, as these have never been considerations for me."
Once again, they are considerations for those who would actually like to listen to the music and not the noise of a damaged record"Why not just ask for a sealed copy from the 1950s?"
Truth is sealed copies stand a good chance of suffering from factory defects. As someone with an eye on sound quality the standard would be near mint.
Sooooo where are the cheap ones?
Edits: 05/23/21
Aren't you tired after an interminable argument with a jerk named "glotz" over at Analog Planet? Didn't you ask yourself if responding to someone like that is a big waste of time? I'm actually embarrassed that I read most of it. Though it may be interesting to observe "combatants" in the heat of battle, I can't help feeling there are so many better and more useful things we could be doing. I include myself in this as well.
really. You do.
I just think there is just soooooo much gross misinofrmation from all fronts in audio and so much urban legend and absurd nonsensical beliefs that it is worth while to try to post and defend some fact based information.
It is probably kind of funny that on the one hand I am touting the virtues of this record here while questioning the virtues of the technology of the pressing machines over on Fremer's page. But like I said, there is so much bullshit from all fronts.
I dunno, am I promoting rational thought and fact based decision making or am I slaying windmills? I'd like to think I am just following the golden rule. I actually do appreciate it when other people give me factual information about this stuff.
"I dunno, am I promoting rational thought and fact based decision making or am I slaying windmills? "
Here's my assessment:
They have sold out 25K copies so lots of audiophiles clearly want this. The cognoscenti have spoken, LOL.
Something I feel we need more of in audiophilia.
All the stampers are from the 1995 mastering Bernie Grundman did for Classic Records. He used the original tapes at that time. Fremer had a nice write-up on the various reissues/remasters on his site.
Grundman had to have used the original tapes from the late 1950s as the basis for his work in the 90s, or what am I missing? To me, none of this matters. KOB lives on because it was a moment of musical genius in jazz, a successful departure from bebop from Miles who was a central figure in the origin of bebop. You can hear that even on the radio, even from the crappiest but playable used LP copy. It was a revelation to me when I first heard it at age 15 and turned me into a jazz nut for life. For Miles personally, it seems to have been only a temporary stage in his constant progression.
No one is questioning the musical achievement of Kind of Blue. The one and only issue with this particular record is the unique sound quality it offers.
**IF** that doesn't matter Kind of Blue can be had for pretty cheap on the used market.
I have 4-5 versions, ranging from the original Columbia 6-eye mono that I bought when I was a teenager to several of the re-issues, including one of the 45-rpm versions. My point would be that ultimately the quality of any re-issue must be limited by the quality of the source material used to make it and that once I owned a really audiophile worthy pressing or two or three, I, for one, do not feel the need for another. It's only my opinion, and I don't disagree or disapprove of collecting KOB re-issues, or especially if you are a newbie to jazz or audio. One could do worse with money. I guess another point in the back of my mind is that you can hear the "greatness" in the music without fancy equipment or a boutique LP copy.
which is your favorite?
because I haven't thought about it. Certainly the 45rpm version is very good. But I often choose not to play it, because I don't want to be jumping up to change sides nearly twice as often as normal. I have a British Columbia pressing ("CBS" is I think the British version of Columbia), and it's also very good, quiet. I also have a Columbia 2-eye that's excellent.
Nt
Without checking, I would guess that a whole lot of the 15 ips 2 track tapes in my collection were sourced from 60-year-old master tape (or dubs thereof). That would definitely include Chad Kassem's new reel-to-reel spectacular of "Blues and the Abstract Truth" we discussed over at Tape Trail. Thankfully, well=kept tape lasts a long time.
As I said there, not a tape guy...yet, but looking forward to replacing my recent Euro copy with the new Impulse reisssue on LP. A touchstone album for sure. Just wish that an original was within my budget.
Edits: 05/23/21
I've been here 20 years. No one ever told me!! 🤔
I think since it started. Funny, when you do a google search on Audio Asylum this is what pops up
"Audio Asylum -- Audio Reviews, Audiophile Forums and ...www.audioasylum.com"
who knew?
I guess we're talking about two different things. Yes, certainly audiophiles frequent this site. I think of the Vinyl Asylum more as a place to discuss everything vinyl, whether the recording is considered "audiophile" or not.
I have an original 6 eye too and have never had any interest in buying a different mastering/pressing. But the music/performances on KOB are hardly the McD of jazz. The modal aspect was ground breaking at the time for small group jazz and the playing is obviously excellent.
If your point was that the record ain't hard to find I guess I'd agree, though I don't know how plentiful original 6 eyes are now. I'm glad so many people dig it but I gotta wonder how many who own more than one KOB record also own a bunch of other Miles records. Its hardly the only one worth having.
I was pointing out the fallacy in the post above that, in some way, high sales equates to high quality. In some cases yes, but high sales is hardly the litmus test of quality.
Though KOB is certainly a marvelous album, original copies are plentiful and cheap. Columbia did a good job of giving it the promotion it deserved when it was initially issued, and that is what makes good, original, copies, common.
Not everyone can afford an original copy of "Whistle Stop" and there a reissue may be the only economic option for a music lover, but KOB, not so much.
Yup, I have a I think 1975 (or late 70's UA reissue in any case) pristine (near)pressing with the white B that I bought, what in 2017, or '18 for $40. I know an original 1961 issue can command bucko bucks. A great album if you ask me.
I also have an early press of KOB, in mono, best that could be ascertained was it was pressed in late '59 (after the side 2 label was corrected, but before the sale of Columbia to CBS in 1961 (no CBS nomenclature at the 12:00 position). I think I paid $15 for it what, 3 years ago in decent, but not NM shape, in mono no less. Would not trade that LP for anything.
CBS bought Columbia Records in 1940, by the way. Some 6 eye labels have CBS, some do not.
Had to go back and find the article about this as what I read years ago was that CBS bought Columbia records in 1961 and ONLY those records pressed in 1961-62 on the 6 eye label had these as by June 1962, they ceased with the nomenclature and by 1963, the 2 eye labels made their debut.
The present Wikipedia article says 1938 when CBS bought Columbia, but from what I understand, the nomenclature was when CBS went international (as CBS International) I believe in 1960-61.
Either way, I have 6-eyes with and without the CBS nomenclature, depends on when pressed. My KOB does not as it predates 1961.
My copy of Take Five has them on both sides, and research reveals it's from 1961, even though the LP was released in 1959 originally.
if: Sketches Of Spain = fries?
and: On The Corner = Happy Meal?
then: Bitches Brew = Olive Garden?
?
it's musical orange juice!
regards,
I was bombarded with music like this as a kid. My played bebop jazz in the house all of the time.
nt
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nt
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