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Hi,
I am getting into a MC cartridge and I am looking to avoid using an SUT or a head amp if possible. Don't want the extra IC's and such. I own about 20 preamps( all tube but 2)but none of them are high gain. I can use them with a step up device but as I said I am trying to avoid that.
Another inmate uses the Pass Labs Xono. Are there any other ideas out there I could possibly try. The Pass Xono is very hard to find and the XP 15 is a bit pricey. Don't mind spending the money for the results but I am not really a SS person but I try anything upon suggestion if it makes sense.
Thanks
Follow Ups:
Hi,
May I suggest the ARC REF Phono 2SE , REF Phono 3SE and their all out effort the REF Phono 10 . It has high gain , tube based , w/ variable equalisation ( RIAA , Decca , Columbia ) . Variable loading and Gain , all adjustments can be made at the comfort of your listening chair ( via remote control ) . RCA or XLR output . And it's a superb performer .
Hope this helps ,
Mondial
MM/MC - MC gain is 72dB (4000x ... as distinct to the standard MC gain of 1000x).)
Andy
...and an incredible phonostage it is . HiFi World magazine's reference phonostage and my own.
However the OP says " I am getting into a MC cartridge and I am looking to avoid using an SUT or a head amp if possible. " The PS3 achieves its gain by using an SUT (100 ohm fixed) for MC albeit built in.
It also comes in two boxes and needs a lot of real estate and is all tube (so at least the latter feature removes the OP's concern about ICs, it doesn't even have a circuit board being all point to point wired).
It is also not exactly cheap by the general standards here especially if the OP is "just getting" into MCs - $4k plus depending upon features chosen. NB: I highly recommend the Designer's Edition with better tubes and Jensen caps, adds £300 here in its UK home so I presume more than just equivalent $ in the US.
"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams
If the Pass XP-15 is too pricy then you might consider an earlier model. I believe they have had a continuous string of very good performers.
Many years ago I used a Pass FET 10 phono stage. It was one of the best units i've owned. I am a fan of tubes and no SS nasties there. But you may want to look for a newer model than that.
"The only cats worth anything are the cats who take chances. Sometimes I play things I never heard myself." Thelonious Monk
I have a Simaudio Moon 5.3LP, it has 66db gain and can be adjusted for different capacitance levels. Very quiet. First time in the last 20 years I haven't used a step up. The newer version is the 310LP, it also can be adjusted up to 66db gain. They can be found on the used market for relatively cheap.
Thomas
"I've never owned a firearm, but I do have an attack parrot!"
I love my LP5.3
I saw in another one of your post you said you had bought the SUT from Nclayton on eBay with the 3440AH transformers in it.
Yes I do but I am also looking to not have to use an SUT of any kind. I am also getting a head amp from Lounge but I am looking to do without it.
You have the SUT and Headamp as insurance policies just in case you don't like the SS Phono Preamp.
I only have ONE Tube Phono preamp with JFET headamp built in it. I also Have ONE Solid State Phono Preamp which also has a built in Headamp. Love them both for what each can do. Right since its summer, I have the Electrocompaniet ECP-1 (Heavily Modified and Upgraded) in the system right and works will with my SUT. I just didn't like the way the head amp sound that ECP-1 came with, Way better with my SUT running into the MM side of the ECP-1.
As it is starting to get colder now, I will be putting in the Musical Paradise MP-P1 Phono preamp.
Actually I will be converting over to all my Tube gear now that summer is over. VTA-120 amp, Transcendent Sound Masterpiece Preamp, Musical Paradise Phono Preamp, along with my Musical Paradise MP-D1 DAC.
Well HiFi Shark can be a good tool for see wjhat may be avaiable on the market. Found this:
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649656816-pass-labs-xono-phono-stage-with-full-size-power-supply/
I contacted him and he never responded. He said he has a sale pending.
That's a bit steep for an old XOno. Mine is 17-years old and they were discontinued shortly after I bought mine. The list price of mine was $4200. I don't remember them ever going for $4600. I paid $2600 for mine brand new and it also has the full-size power supply. I wouldn't pay more than $1200 for an XOno today because it has to be at least 15-years old. Of course, I wouldn't part with mine either because it's still working fine and it sounds just as good as it ever did.
Best regards,
John Elison
Thanks for the heads up
What happened to your phono-stage with 68-dB gain?
That would be perfect for a LOMC cartridge with 0.2-mV rated output.
I am going to use it. It is an Arthur Loesch circuit but built as a phono only instead of full function. I want to try other stuff as well.
If by "full function" you mean with source selection and volume control then your terms are mis-applied. :-((
A line stage with source selection and volume control ... is a preamp(lifier).
A phono stage takes the input from a cart and applies the appropriate EQ (typically RIAA). This then feeds into a preamp; it may have (but generally doesn't) a volume control.
A preamp may include a built-in phono stage ... iow, one of the inputs is for a cart. It's still a 'preamp', though.
Andy
i have owned a few Loesch preamps and i was told that the line-stage tube was essential.. apparently, the 2nd tube in Loesch units cant drive the cable. your may want to check with a tech or someone with knowledge with on the Loesch tubes on this.
by the way, i have been long time tube fan but have cautiously made the migration to Solid state phono. the pass phono units are excellent. others: sutherland, loricraft, tom evans, asr . in the future, i might try to snag one of those silly$$$ phono stages. i suspect at the top levels, a top SS phono will have a built in advantage
over a top tube phono stage .
i dont recommend the older SS units. they are not competitive.
But my own experience is that I'd rather have a phono stage with a lot of setting for resistance and enough gain for an MC cart than a SUT or a head amp. I've used all three and prefer the full phono stage.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
...for what that's worth.
I'm not quite sure why you're so opposed to good step-up transformers though. With your ability to solder, nothing says you have to have to have the transformers mounted in an external enclosure, which would require the extra interconnects, etc.
Mount them internally, near the input jacks using two capacitor clamps, the way Pete Millett did in his LR phono. Shorter signal path, a cleaner look, and less expensive.
Adding two transformers to a phono stage you already know you like makes more sense to me than buying a new phono stage you have no idea if you'll like.
Hi(forgot ur name),
I like trying and playing with other things when I can. I have around 20 phono preamps(Arthur Loesch, Pete Millett, Lounge, Gary Pimm, Eli Duttman, and loads other that were either built by me or a friend). I have lots to choose from. But I want the higher gain SS as a trial.
I don't blame you one bit for wanting to try a high gain SS stage. I realized that my answer was somewhat based on the constraints of my budget, not necessarily yours.
I've been curious about that PS Audio Stellar phono stage after all the good reviews came out, which is why I mentioned it to you. With selectable 60dB, 66dB, and 72dB gain it should work for you, gain wise, but obviously I can't comment on the sound quality, having never heard it.
Good luck with your choice.
Yea, that's the path I took in my CJ Premier 15, room in the back near the connectors, so simple matter to insert the vintage Partridge 1:6 transformers ...
I think that's a great idea but not many MM phono stages are built to allow for the installation of SUTs in the nice neat way that Pete Millet has done it in your photo. (I assume that those are the innards of the PM LR phono stage.)
And yes, that's a view of Pete Millett's LR.
In reading xaudiomanx's posts over the years, I got the impression that at least some of his 20+ phono stages are DIY, like the Millett LR he had built or the Eli Duttman RCA, to name two that I'm aware of. In those cases, there could possibly be more room inside the enclosure to mount the transformers.
Really don't want to have to use one particular phono stage. That is why I bought an SUT from Ned Clayton(very reasonably priced) and the head amp from Lounge. I can switch out different phonos.
I thought you wanted suggestions for a high gain phono stage so as to avoid using a SUT or head amp. Sorry if I am confused.
I am trying NOT to use an SUT or any step up device if possible but I do own a couple of ways to step up the signal if I am not satisfied with SS. Very simple!
Chinook that I recently purchased fits your gain needs. I've only had it for a week, and it is still settling in, but so far it seems to bethe final stage I will buy. Very versitile as far as loading etc, well built, and pretty.
P
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