|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
108.195.252.107
I recently picked up a Rega P2 with a Grace 707 arm and I am curious about the potential of some simple tweaks.I will likely replace the plastic inner platter with one of the aluminum IPs available.
What are opinions regarding a ceramic main bearing ?
How would you damp the main bearing well ? Use a small rubber washer or nipple that fits snuggly over the well ? Any recommendations ?
Has anyone damped the motor housing ? Rubber washers or bands that fight tightly around the outside ?
Has anyone tried installing a motor thrust bearing at the bottom of the motor ? My understanding is a small bearing is pressed against the bottom of the motor coil rotor from the outside, and held in place by a bracket.
Thanks !
Edits: 07/28/20Follow Ups:
Ross - I had an RP3. I rewired it with an end to end Cardas cable. I put in the carbide bearing. Both provided audible improvements. After a few months I checked on the bearing. When I installed the bearing I polished the spindle. When I looked at it again the hard bearing caused more spindle wear in a few months than the stock bearing did in years. I figured out what it would take to keep modifying it and then I bought a used Kenwood 770D which is much better table with a Jelco arm. As another poster said, Rega products are well designed. If you want a better quality Rega buy one.
interesting take on the harder bearing. bummer you weren't warned about the accelerated wear when a harder material is on one side of the friction equation. .
the idea doesn't seem that credible to me because I don't see new product using a ceramic ball in the main bearing assembly, and the material is far from new. I don't see cost as a mitigating factor between the two bearing materials in such a key area.
A ball in that application has such a minuscule contact point, in theory, one molecule is possible, it is hard for me to accept a sonic improvement caused by a substitution of one material over another , since the contact area is so small.
Sota turntables use a sapphire flat, a material similar in hardness to ceramic, only to get a very flat surface for the ball, to get the smallest contact point. Not for how it sounds over another material. A sapphire optical flat is a common commercial product, no big deal to acquire, , but it is flat to within one wavelength of light. Making for a very flat surface to place a ball when seeking minimal contact for a pivot point.
ceramic might change the resonate frequency of the assembly, if in fact , a change is heard. For, in fact, any observed change might be just an illusion of the mind disguised as reality.
Without objective measurements a guy might be correct in thinking he heard an improvement, but all hearing tests have a built in error rate, because hearing is subjective, as is vision. The harder you try to hear things, the more confused the results become.
People don'y always trust what they see, because the are aware of optical illusions. The mind creating illusions with available audible information is never questioned , because all evidence is transitory, unless recorded or measured.
I found out about the sapphire flats once I saw the extra wear on the spindle. About $100 for the flat plus the machining to get the spindle flat, square, and the precise length That was just one of the many upgrades needed to take the RP3 to the next level. The Kenwood 770D "bearing" is a pad of UHMW or HDPE.There is no hard surface to hard surface to cause rumble. The contact surface is 3/8ths of an inch or so in diameter and flat so psi measurements are not comparable to the Rega. The manufacturer of a heavy direct drive with excellent speed control can use a technology like that. Those kind of features are why you upgrade.
I imagine that would apply to a lot of components as they are stock
Yes I'm a cheapskate and want the most for the least !
Joking aside, I can not justify paying for all of the costly upgrades that are available. So a new motor, power supply, exotic inner platter etc are off the table (no pun intended).
From a cursory web search it appears that some of the recommended tweaks are very cost effective. Use of grommets, rubber nipples, and rubber o rings etc. A new bearing (jewel or ceramic) is inexpensive. A metal inner platter can be found for a less than dear price.
My questions were directed at those that have tried some of these tweaks so I can get feedback while I decide what to do.
At a min, I will "blueprint" the deck....disassemble, clean, lube and adjust to factory specs before I do anything.
Deck dates from about 1986 based upon ser no.
Thanks
why not pack clay into the plastic subplatter to add mass instead of buying a metal unit?
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
You don't have to help it, it will run fast just like when it was new. Great table and arm. I've had over a dozen Regas, but don't believe there are any factory specs to aspire to.The best thing that you can do is respect the requirement to use a high compliance mm cartridge on the Grace arm, IMHO. Although we used to use Supex MCs on the arm back in the day.
The specs are at the link below, you won't have much trouble achieving them.
Edits: 07/29/20 07/29/20
Then we all thought as much, an older deck. I know that before the RB250/300 arms were brought to market in 1984, most of the earlier tables had an Acos Lustre arm, rebadged as the R200, and the importer for Australia insisted on the Grace 707 instead if I recall and eventually ALL regas were imported with Rega's RB250/300 arms with the RB250 for the P2, the RB300 for the P3.
These days, they are much improved and the current P3/P6 use the RB330 arm, the P2, the RB220 arm, but a compromised single piece arm tube but no antiskate.
Anyway, good luck with it!
Well, the motor is the weak link is that system IMO. Try damping the motor. I got rid of the rubber band holding the motor in place and sat the motor on O-rings and a piece of plexiglass I fit into the motor housing. It made some difference. Also wrap rubber bands around the motor to damp it out even more.
Not worth the motor upgrade IMO. Get a more recent Rega is my advice.
Oh, I did have luck replacing the ball bearing with a ruby bearing from Portugal. That was a great $6 upgrade, but it took six weeks to arrive.
I assume you've re-lubed the bearing already which should be standard Rega maintenance. Rega says it doesn't suggest any maintenance because they just want you to buy a new turntable!
Other than siting the table on a light, rigid support (Neuance shelf, Rega wall shelf, Ikea Lack table), they perform best as shipped. Think of a Rega as a Mafia staff car. Keepa you hands off.
I've owned 6 Regas in my lifetime, and have tried just about every "upgrade" out there. At best, most made little difference. At worst, they destroyed the deck's dynamics. Regas come as a package of parts designed to work together.
Place it on a proper support, align cart properly, use clean LPs and enjoy it.
Opus 33 1/3
It will take a lot of lipstick to make that pig look good. Set it up properly and leave it alone.
-Wendell
maybe just dial it in as is and leave it alone for now. I'm not familiar with the p2 but the Grace is a very nice arm if it's not been abused and the bearings are good.
I use a 1/4" to 1/2" square of regular paper with the arm zeroed out to see if the bearings will respond to careful easy placement on the headshell.
Then take it from there. Proper setup is critical to the end result.
*"Bass is the place! The rest is filigree and lace" Doug Sax
Agree with Viridian,
Here is why, as he stated you begin to add in 400+ for the upgrades, including new motor supply and you are still left with mostly the older P2 with plinth and arm.
The arm will largely be the weak link now most likely Grace or no notwithstanding.
That said, used P2 and P3 tables, now 20+ years old sell for almost what the current, new in box current models sell for, P2's nearing $600 and P3 selling for $800-850, a brand new P3, sans cart sells for $945 or so new.
So by the time you upgrade your current, and likely older P2, your are already having spend around $400 for the upgrades and your within a couple hundred for the current P2, economically it does not make sense. That's how I ended up with a current P6 as the older P3's on eBay were going more often than not for 20+ year old models for almost as much as a current P3 sells sans any cart. P2's aren't as bad but still, you may be close to what it sells for (in the US) of $645 with the Carbon cartridge.
But you can't even add the external PS, the P3 gets it as an extra cost option of almost $400, which is partly why I went with the P6 is to get that Neo PSU, I'd be within $200 or so from getting a P6 that comes with it standard, and you get an upgraded plinth, sub platter, and heavier platter all included, in the box.
I'll tell you, I'm not sorry I ended up spending $1500+ for the P6, it's that much better a table than the P3, even if both use the exact same RB330 arm.
...the place to start is with the new, hard mounted, motor kit. It is fairly easy to install, and you will have the port to use the outboard power supply as a later upgrade. Some folks are currently converting to the current EVO power supply, so I am seeing used examples of the older, second generation, supply coming on the market.I don't see the value in using a $300 sub platter on a table that is only worth a multiple of that. Tangospinner makes a nice kit for that table, that includes sub platter, ceramic bearing and oil, and a new metal pulley for the motor for $150 or so.. They also make a PEEK replacement bearing, at $70 additional cost.
My only thought is, once you start adding this stuff up you have $225 for the motor kit, and $150 in the sub platter kit, or $300 for the Groovetracer sub platter, you can sell the Rega and buy a much better turntable by kicking in that $400 Or $525. If you went further and added a used TTPSU power supply you would be in another two bills and add the $70 PEEK bearing to that. It starts to look like pretty poor value quite quickly, IMHO.
I have used the thrust plate kit on the Philips motor for the Linn LP12, which is exactly the same motor. If the motor is clicking, this will cure it, and it is most annoying. I did not hear any change in sound quality and IMHO, the Linn is probably more revealing. YMMV on all of it.
Edits: 07/28/20 07/28/20 07/28/20
Question,
Are you inferring to an OLDER P2? as I know in some markets, a Grace 707 (in Australia is what they get, same with the older P3, before the RB 250/300 arms came out in the mid 80's or the current version that was released in 2016, also known as the P2?
I ask that question as that can make a bigger difference as rubberbands are no longer used (extra drive belt) for the motor mountings since they replaced the AC synchronous motor in 2016 for the P1 and P2, the P3 got the new motor in 2007.
As for bearings have NO idea, the Groovetracer sub platter is often the one to recommend for the phenolic subplatter (hub).
I have the current P6 in my system and I am leaving it damn well alone, but it does have a Grado Prestige Green 1 cart in it now and sounds great.
The rest, best to wait for others that are familiar with Regas, especially the older versions to come in and offer their input(s).
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: