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Hello everyone!
I would like to purchase my first turntable. I have been reading a lot on the topic and I am more inclined to go with a vintage table then a new one.
A local vintage audio shop has a few nice turntables. The owner is highly recommending a Thorens td 145 mkii with Ortofon VMS 20 EO mkii cartridge. It is in good condition, services with 6 month warranty. The price would be around 500$.
He is advertising the cartridge as one of the best.
The shop has some Duals as well in almost mint condition.1019, 1219, 1229 the latest two at half the price of the td 145.
What is you recommendation, which would be the better choice?
Sound quality and durability is important. I think the rd 145 might have better arm and compatibility with current cartridges styluses.
Thank you
Follow Ups:
That's a lot of money for 40+ year old complex mechanical devices.
The Thorens is a fairly simple belt drive affair, easier to maintain than the complex automatic Duals. The 1019 is a changer no less...
The Duals are idler wheel drive so their nature is different than the relaxed playing Thorens. Drive, PRAT. The little 1019 is the sleeper IMHO. Short arm, tricky to set up properly. Again, complex machine, condition is everything, make sure it has been refurbished by a pro.
I sold a few TT from my collection recently. My TD145mk2, 1019 and 1219 aren't going anywhere though.
"The torture never stops"Greetings Freek.
Warning personal bias and experience obvious.Personally I am partial to the Thorens line albeit I use a 125 II not the 145. The TP 16 arm is what I assume is on the TT, and while often upgraded it is underrated and will match the Ortofon well.
The Ortofon is one of the sleeper moving iron cartridges, not much posted, but was typically marketed as a top performer and sound wise likened to the famed Ortofon SPU, being rich but with good detail & sound-stage. There are still some NOS styli around (Thakker in Germany) but Jico have a aftermarket stylus. Unfortunately they do not have a SAS available. Note the 10 and 30 will fit the body. Compared to: a Goldring 1042 (1042 sweeter, more detail), Grace F9E (9E more sinister, dynamic), Shure 97 (Shure rocks better, far less detail) it easily holds it own, & is not ashamed in the company of Shelters (501), Benz Glider L, Dynavector Karats although without MC air and that final touch that requires many extra $.
For the Dual read Munkie's posts.
Time for more music.
Edits: 06/23/17 06/23/17 06/23/17
Dual 1229 is becoming a cult item. Grab it while you can, preferably with a decent cartridge installed
All great decks, what cartridge comes with the Duals?
Martin
Hi Martin.I don't know. Probably stock. But the Dual 1219 os only 200$. He has some 506, 1224, 1225 Duals as well in good condition.
Having owned both Dual decks and Thorens (which are my current decks) the quality of the Thorens far exceeds the Duals IMHO. I have a TD 166 mk II and a TD 321 with Sumiko MMT tonearm and have never felt a need to change. Hopefully happy Dual owners will respond as well but I love my Thorens. They're reliable, accurate, and present the music well.
Sim
Thank you!
Should I rather consider a U.K. made Rega planar 2 with carbon arm and acrylic platter at 350$?
Thorens and Rega are much better than any 12 series Dual.
I used a 1229Q / Empire 2000 EIII combo for many years. Good but not the best at pulling detail from LPs. Mechanism seems complex, but it is surprisingly robust and reliable. The current appeal has a lot to do with nostalgia for what one could not afford back in the day, or trying to recreate what one had back in the day. Absolute sonic quality may not be as important. The 1229 was considered the top of line of Dual idler TT.
I changed to a direct drive Dual 721Q / Shure v15-III combo, it sounded better in some ways and worse in others. Quieter background and better low level detail retrieval, but I could hear traces of "cogging".
I swapped it for a Thorens TD318 / Stanton 881s combo (straight swap !). Night and day difference. Quieter background, deeper bass, cleaner midrange and treble. Much better detail retrieval, I could hear ambiance and air around musicians.
Changed to a AR ES-1 / Shure V15-Vmr combo that was better still in all areas.
I used a Rega P2 / Signet combo for awhile and liked it, but not enough to replace the AR. It excelled at clarity, but soundstage seemed smaller overall in comparison.
In your situation, I would try to listen to both. The Rega at $350 leaves more room for improvement, but the Thorens will be quite good as well. Leave the Dual for someone else unless you want to assemble a vintage system.
I defer to my colleagues here who are more knowledgable in that deck and cartridge. I only choose to comment when I have personal experience which I do with the Thorens decks.
Sim
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