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. So, this is the last item to get for my retirement system. I have been going with high value per dollar components. Lets recap, I just received today a pair of Tekton Lore speakers that I ordered 4 weeks ago. I am breaking them in with the Bad Plus "Give" CD. This CD has a lot of electric bass and percussion. That should exercise the surrounds nicely. For a Turntable I refurbed a Thorens TD-125 with Fidelity Research FR-54 tonearm. I am running a Denon DL-110 at the moment. For electronics, (don't Laf) a Chinese 8 watt per channel SE tube amp with a Chinese tube preamp. They are well made and sound great to my ears. I am waiting for a Lounge Audio LCR mk. III phono preamp and Copala step up. As I say I need a MC cart. nothing extravagant but good bang for the buck. Suggestions please....
Follow Ups:
Sounds great in my LP12 ITTOK LVII combo. Firm and tight bass, extended crystalline treble and a wonderful midrange. Compliance is high enough to ensure good tracking ability. A bit difficult to align however.
I picked out a cartridge. I decided on something completely different. I have never owned an Ortofon cartridge, so I got a Quintet Bronze. I got it at a good price from Germany.....
is one of the series quintet i had in mind. even the blue would have been a decent purchase. ortofon MCs are highly underrated.
i heard a system at the LAAS 2017 with a cadenza black that knocked me out. it can really unravel a complex passage without losing its composure.
...regards...tr
Add me as a happy Hana customer. I bought a Hana EH and an Ortofon LH4000 headshell for my Technics SL1210-M5G to replace my Denon DL-110. I could not believe what I was hearing- so sweet so musical- effortless.More forgiving of ticks and pops than the Denon was.
Chris
...ever tried a DL-160?
I'm not the only member here that prefers it to the DL-103.
I've owned the DL-103 a couple of times. I get it. It is very good at what it does for $229. But its not (to me) a great cartridge.
Neither is the DL-160... but it fills in what is missing with the 103 and (to my ears) retains the virtues of the 103.
Just my 2-cents and worth half what you paid.
Best of luck in your search.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
with elliptical on aluminum cantilever.
Opus 33 1/3
nt
I have considered a SPU. I have a question for a Ebay seller to see if it will fit my Fidelity Research FR-54 tonearm...
If you don't mind buying used pick up a low hour Benz Gilder or HO or MO.09. I've moddded a number 103 and I can say that IME the are a budget reference. Potted, nude, carbon or ebony makes them a fantastic sounding cartridge but just a tad short of the Benz I suggested.
I have an ACE out to Peter @ Soundsmith coming back with a sapphire upgrade, which I'm hoping elevates it. Stock it was hit or miss for me.
I'm mounting a Clear Audio on a custom Thorens table I've made for someone and a quick listen was very promising. It was a Mistro V2 moving magnet. Again, you would have to look used.
Opus 33 1/3
If you want value for money, at $350, when all is said and done, the DL103R is a $1000 cartridge with a extremely low-spec stylus.Consider it a Ferarri with bad tyres: you can always change the tyres.
It sounds good the way it is, will improve with a retip or a new body.
And you don't develop anxiety when strangers or children approach your turntable the way you would with a $1000 cartridge mounted.
BK
Edits: 06/03/17
I already own a DL-103 and have owned the DL-103R's What I want in a new cart. is the 103 mid-range with more refinement at the top and bottom. Thanks for the suggestion....
Opus 33 1/3
I do already have a 103 but I need to check it out first. I bent the canti and I straightened it but I don't have the proper stepup to make sure the coils didn't get damaged in the process. I have a Lounge Audio LCR mk 3 phono pre and Copla stepup coming Monday. If the 103 checks out I may go with the body, stylus upgrade path. I'm kind of leaning towards something new at this point.....I have never owned a Ortofon cart, I might check into them. I am in no hurry. If the 103 checks out I will just use it stock for now...
"What I want in a new cart. is the 103 mid-range with more refinement at the top and bottom."Why not try one of Zu Audio's versions? This will give you the 103 sound with more refinement at either extreme.
Read about a comparison here .
"Unless you had a chance to hear it, nothing prepares you for what doubling the cost but paying a still reasonable $439 gets you. The Zu-modified DL-103 has initially very little in common with the stock version and had I heard it blind, I would never have identified it as a DL-103. After a while, you will recognize the great tonal richness of the stock cart but what will be initially striking is the increased resolution, the almost absolute lack of distortion which results in deep wide staging and tremendous microdynamics. Leading edges are sharper but not aggressively so. The treble gains in resolution, extension and gets cleared from any compression you hear in the original. Keep the fun and tonal richness, push up accuracy, resolution and stereophonic effects orders of magnitude higher and you have an idea of what an extra $200 buys you. If you want to isolate some remaining weaknesses in the Zu-DL103, the bass definition remains somewhat looser than and not as deep as the pricier cartridges here and a hint of upper midrange glare remains. But you really have to be used to hearing it in the original to even notice it.
Like many others who modify DL103s, Zu strip out the cheap plastic body and replace it with a beautiful black anodized military-grade aluminium body and stabilize the assembly with a secret sauce. Their deep knowledge of materials and their mechanical characteristics really show. It is hard to imagine when listening to a stock DL103 that so much potential is being masked by the physical flimsiness of the original. Zu also go a step further and measure every modified cartridge individually. Depending on how tight the loosest measurement is, the cartridge will be labeled standard (within 2.5%) or grade 1, 2 and 2-Prime (within 1.0%, 0.5% and 0.1% respectively). 2-prime cartridges are very rare and therefore cost significantly more. The review sample was a standard and as the Zu team state on their website, it is already "pretty darn fine". Higher grades will yield better stereophonic image in systems that can deliver it but the other aspects of the performance will remain unchanged. If you get the impression that I am in complete awe of the transformation conjured up by Zu, you would be correct. For my biases and how I enjoy the music, I gladly give up the last bit of bass resolution and tunefulness to take advantage of the glorious midrange and imaging. Throw in great dynamics and resolution to wrap it up. It would be excellent at $1'000. At less than half, it is hard to think of any better option out there."
You have to write to them and get on the waiting list, as they produce them in batches .
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 06/03/17 06/03/17
Instead of getting the Zu cartridge which seems to be out of stock much of the time, I sent my DL103R to Paradox Pulse. The turnaround was one day and it was in the mail back to me! I've been very impressed with the results and the pricing is very reasonable. The aluminum body is $50 and the potting service is only $60. It's an inexpensive way to significantly upgrade the DL103R.
Main system- Rotel RCD950, Rotel RC1070, Rotel RB981, Magnepan 10QR, Martin Logan Dynamo sub
Headphone system- Little Dot MKIII, Sennhesier HD 580,
iFi iPhono, Technics SL1210 MK2, Denon DL110
Edits: 06/06/17
The Zu-modded Denon is a really nice cartridge, and does exactly what the OP states that he's looking for. I prefer my Koetsu overall, but it's 3X the price. If I didn't have it, I could live very happily with the Zu forever and ever.
As you noted, you have to get on the waiting list. But the wait wasn't long for me. IIRC, I got an email saying they had a new batch ready about 2 weeks after adding my name to the list.
Curious to know what you like in this cartridge, compared to the Zu?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
The Koetsu takes the midrange up a couple notches in low level detail, microdynamics, and harmonic detailing. It goes lower in the bass, but at the expense of some control and dynamic slam. Treble is very natural sounding (to me), although some would say it lacks some extension. I love it for the midrange, and although it's bettered in other areas by other cartridges (even less expensive ones), I'll live with its shortcomings for what it does so well and the way it pushes my buttons. You've probably heard the "romantic" label applied to Koetsu's in general, and that's a pretty good one-word descriptor.
Thanks. I've often wondered how they compare to an SPU.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
I recently purchased a Hana EL cartridge and I am quite pleased with it. I was considering a Denon 301 but wanted to try something a little different. Both of these cartridges, the Hana or 301, I think would work well for you.
Before I downsized my analog rig I was using an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, a fabulous cartridge. The Hana is definitely not the Bronze but it comes remarkably close for only $475.
Terry
What tonearm are you using the Hana on? I have a Fidelity Research FR-54 16 gms. medium mass
I'm using a Technics SL1200 MkII and the arm has a mass of 12 grams. Your arm combined with the 6 grams of the Hana, including an allowance of 1 gram for mounting hardware, would give you a combined weight of 22 grams. Based on information I received on AA (see my thread way down the list), you should have an arm/cartridge resonance frequency of about 8. This is within acceptable limits and I don't think you will have any problems. I have not experienced any mistraking from the Hana in my arm.
Terry
I haven't heard it yet, but it's gotten fantastic reviews.
His budget is $500.
Opus 33 1/3
I heard the 20x2 for the first time in a system at the LAAS. On a LFD Phono Stage and Harbeth speakers, I heard nothing overly brightish going on while listening to Hawkins/Webster, as I suspected would be from what I'd read before (yes, I understand system dependent). So, it'll go on my consideration list when my 2M Black dies.
Ditto on a system with the PrimaLuna Dialouge. I liked what I heard there also.
See ya. Dave
That is a great pick and I have thought about that one myself. It's above my budget though. I want to spend around $500. What I am looking for soundwise is a Denon DL-103 midrange with more refinement at the top and bottom of the frequency spectrum....
use it for a bit, say a couple hundred hours. Then ship her off to Peter for an elliptical retip. My retipped 103 comes very close to the Dyna and betters it a bit in the mids.
Opus 33 1/3
Edits: 06/03/17
I have a DL-103 so that is definitely a consideration.....
I have been using varients of the 103 for the last 20 years. Recently tried the 301/II and there is no going back. Just a more well rounded cartridge, lots more detail, good drive and available for $285 on ebay. A really nice, overlooked cartridge IMHO.
I did look at those but my arm is 16 gms. effective mass and is two heavy for that cart. The 301 mk II is higher compliance that the DL-103 series carts.....
Opus 33 1/3
Hi
Just interested in what your impression of this cartridge was and what put you off. I have two samples of this and they both perform very differently to each other (technically). One is a superb tracker easily getting 80um, and the other fails to get to 60um even at max VTF. For me, the common theme between them was that they sounded rather "dark" and "shut in" at the top and lacked the neutrality and clarity I would expect from an MC. An analysis of a white noise test tone revealed a very similar response as the Shure "Audiophile curve" cartridges like the M97xE. The DL304 is quite a different animal being much more neutral and is currently my favourite LOMC.
Just wondered how our experiences compared!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
"Dark and shut in"? That is EXACTLY the opposite of the way I would describe the 301/II.
What loading were you using? On my Well Tempered Reference arm, Grace 707 and SME M2, I hear open, detailed, fast, dynamic, reasonably well balanced and fairly transparent sound. I packed up my Zu103 (my second one, I DO like this cartridge), it just is not the well rounded performer the the 301/II is. The 103 sounds great but leaves a lot out.
I think the 103 is certainly an easy and reasonable recommendation, but not the one cartridge I can live with anymore.
The Denon cartridges have quite a high output impedance so I load them at > 400R with 800R being my "normal" setting. Any less than 400R and the output level rapidly drops.
I should add that I didn't dislike the DL301/II as such (that was Opus), but that it very definitely sounds "dark" and "shut-in" compared to better LOMCs which have a flat response of which I have several. The tonal balance is very similar to the Shure M97xE. For certain types of music, it sounds good, but can sound a little bloated at the bottom end which is not attractive for vocals. It all depends on what you want out of a cartridge, but "neutral" it isn't!
For example, it does not have the analysis and neutrality of the DL304 which is currently my favourite LOMC and achieves all that I require - flat/neutral response, superb LF tracking ability and low tip mass. If you are used to a cartridge like the DL304 or OC9MLII (which sounds and measures very flat in my system despite complaints to the contrary on this forum) and then immediately put a DL301/II on, it will always sound shut in and dark. It appears to be a specific voicing characteristic and not related to compliance/arm interactions - my DL304 is even lower compliance than my "low compliance" version of the DL301/II that I have. The 2 samples of DL301 I have which have very different compliances. One is much lower than the other and gives a LF resonance just under 9Hz in my 12g arm compared to just over 7Hz for the high compliance version - this sample had an even more obvious suckout in the HF band.
I don't have a DL103, nor would I get one or recommend one - a spherical tip is just not going to meet my technical requirements!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
So the DL-301 II is compatible with the Grace 707?
Yup, 301/II works well with the 707. Try higher loading with the 301/II, it certainly should not sound shut down or dark.
Vinyl, beer and Jazz! A great combo!
when you experiment with loading.
Opus 33 1/3
... well then you needed a higher value! LOL
I found that 500 sounds a lot more joyful. I way prefer the 301 II to the 103.
It might also depend on system synergy. I played a DL-301 II for a couple of years on my Thorens TD-126 / SME III . It sounded just fine to me with 100-ohm loading on my Mark Levinson No.28 preamp.
Best regards,
John Elison
I was happy when I found a buyer for it.
Opus 33 1/3
I didn't care for the 301 mk ii either. It sounded more like a MM cart. than a MC. I had mine installed on a Jelco SA-750D. It could have been a tonearm cartridge mis-match...
for under $50. The 750 with its fluid damping should not be a mismatch for the 301 .
Opus 33 1/3
None of mine sound "dark and shut-in" to me. MM's are no different from mc's in that some suck, some are middling, and some are VERY good.
These are the budget carts du jour. There are plenty of professional reviews as well. The elliptical version is $475.
Edits: 06/02/17
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