|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
24.171.132.34
I have to admit that I am. I feel if someone is into analog they should at least have an entry level Rega or Music Hall table and a decent outboard phono stage. I met a guy that works at Amoeba records in Hollywood and he was telling me that he owned over 10,000 records. When I asked what kind of table he had he said he wasn't sure but he remembers buying it at a garage sale for 20.00. That is liking having a Ferrari and buying used tires at Mexicali tire center. I just don't get it.
Follow Ups:
Hi, Sudz,
I think there's something wrong with the story. Someone that owns 10,000 record albums probably knows who manufactured the turntable they're using. Conversely, if they don't know what turntable they have, they probably don't own 10,000 records. Sounds like the person was BS'ing you.
But if the story is true, and being a turntable snob and all, which turntable do you own? :-)
Regards,
Tom
Vpi Aries
Benz wood body cartridge
Vpi sds
Zestos andros ph-1
Hi, Sudz,
You can be a snob to many, but certainly not all, turntable owners. Are you thinking of upgrading? :-)
Regard,
Tom
It's funny, the guys with the high-end gear are always looking to upgrade. Meanwhile the guy that buys a 25.00 turntable at a garage sale is content.
Go figure!
I'm always thinking about upgrading but without the cash it's not going to happen.
Should I junk it for a Rega?
"Audiophile" rigs? We'll see.....
A guy has 10000 albums & he does'nt know what kind TT he owns.
Where do you make this sh8t up. Really!
jesus f**king christ.
: )
I don't think the guy's name was Jesus. Next time I go there I'll get his name and post it for you.
The words below are the ravings of a US citizen...who thinks the rest of the world “got it” long before we (and he) figured it all out...or at least some of it.
I think that we all forget what LP playback was (and really still is). There was radio...it “educated” us as to what records we wished to buy.
That was it! We didn't think of soundstage, imaging, etc. There may have been a few who had taken notice that there was spacial information but most studied, did the laundry, washed dishes, ate, made love, etc. while music played in their homes. There may have been a few who gathered together and played music, but the majority treated records, soothing background “noise.”
Those who built their Knight and Radio Shack and Lafayette gear...a great deal closer to what we are now, but they were few, and they were geeks (with exceptions there, too). Records were future garbage pit fillers...we could buy more (the epitome of a throw-away society).
But slowly, through the sixties and definitely by the seventies, people found out (and once again, there were those who'd known for years) that there were exciting things going on aurally. RCA, Columbia, etc. didn't “create” stereo for people like us...it was a way to reissue older music as ell as introduce new names and faces.
They had to “fight” TV!
Audio magazines started to flourish! Amazing...we had “found” our Nirvana. Circulation of HiFi maga zine, Audio, etc. flourished with their colorful ads...because Playboy told young men they would be cool if they had a good hi-fi. They'd get laid...WHILE LISTENING TO MUSIC!
Meanwhile, the rest of the world giggled...they had figured it out...or so it seemed to a 20-some year old in the 70's.
The point is that we are damned lucky some didn't fill the local landfill with records!
Idiots such as myself benefitted from CD...everyone had to have a CD player...JUST LIKE EVERYONE NEEDED TO REPLACE THEIR “CRUMMY” MONO RECORDS WITH STEREO COPIES!
Yard sals and flea markets took over the job (or part of it) of landfills.
So here we are, dozens upon dozens of “record players” created for this throw- away society!
As usual with any commodity, there's junk and there's better junk, and the rarity of turntables that are NOT junk.
Given the opportunity to go to J.C. Penney's and get yourself a “really good” stereo that comes with a turntable, or for the same (nearly exact) price, a turntable only, most opted for the whole nine yards (and more).
So we're brought some 50+ years, audio history both amazing and dismaying us, with basicaly the same choices...junk, better junk and really good stuff.
But that really good stuff is expensive for the average guy...even the better junk is seemingly out of reach.
But imagine the records sitting below 300 feet of New York/New Jersey waste...imagine the turntables...Goldmunds, SAE, Transrotor, Audio Consulting, Continuum, etc. Imagine and weep.
Yes, I am a turntable snob, but only in the real-world price category.
My Thorens TD160, the table that brought me into the hobby, the Kenwood KD500, which brought me the understanding that Japanese gear isn't the crap US audio magazines told me it was (and I took it as gospel instead of questioning), and surely the VPI, which introduced me to modification.
My 10,000 LPs bug the hell out of me one day and the next I'm happy and proud that I had the record someone here at AA wrote about so that I too, could listen and enjoy it.
I've been listening to a huge amount of digitally produced music for quite awhile. I played an LP on the system I'd been reviewing DACS with lately. I was shaken, broken, shook, quaked, and generally amazed that, although I'm guilty of championship with digital sound what I heard was so full, so “muscular” so intensely moving both intellectually and (no exaggeration) spiritually I wondered if I'd gone insane for a long period of time and was suddenly cured of my dementia.
But of course, those who know me know that that too, is a falsehood...along with this diatribe.
******************************
Music. Window or mirror?
Original Poster has absolutely NO CLUE what kind of turntable the "guy that works at Amoeba" owns, yet is quick to insinuate it's junk, based on nothing more than price paid, and this fellow's not being able to recall the make & model.
I've bought numerous used vintage turntables at thrifts & yard sales, all for $20 or less. Not to mention the free Technics SP-15 from a nearby AM radio station. I don't buy junk on my yard sale & thrift expeditions and I wouldn't expect anyone with a 10K+ record collection would either. Most of what I've bought was mid to high end in its day and would easily outperform "an entry level Rega or Music Hall table" that the OP is suggesting as some kind of minimum standard.
In my experience, price paid has little relation to quality or performance, particularly in the case of used gear. Indeed, that's also the case with some new turntables, and if something is marketed as "audiophile", that's no guarantee of performance.
as long as that $20 turntable is something along the lines of an old technics DD or something, then i have no problem with that.
i'd suggest a good affordable cartridge - like a shure M97XE or something.
*
which has nothing to do with the love of music. Now if he's a working DJ, that's another story!
I've met a fellow like that at a yard sale. He was bragging having 10,000 records just to have them telling me they are piece of history. He hasn't even listened to a fraction of his collection. He also was bragging he owns 10 turntables. He just likes to collect!
I think nothing is wrong with owning well chosen 100 records that the owner loves played on a well set up 30k table.
Hi, kuma,
That's a very good point. Those 100 albums may be the finest recordings of the most memorable symphony performances and sound absolutely stunning on that $30,000 turntable; played lovingly each time.
Those 10,000 albums may just be collecting dust.
Regards,
Tom
I have a medium priced SOTA.
I wish I'd bought the eight hundred dollar Dual instead.
I'd rather have a record player than a turntable.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Dr. Greg House
Your post was a little confusing to me. I don't get the Ferrari analogy- having records isn't like having some sports-car, really. If you won a shopping spree at Amoeba, the 10,000 LP's you'd select would have a sizable fraction that are poorly recorded, badly pressed, filtered, compressed or noisy, etc. Hardly Ferraris, unless you only own "audiophile" LPs - and what's the fun of that?
That litany of LP shortcomings characterizes my collection of around 4,000, but I still love them. That love is a lifelong thing, going back to Vee-Jay "Introducing The Beatles" -- the first record I bought with "my own money" in 1964. I play them on the best TT I can afford that's consistent with my principles. It's an old "used" thing and I guess you'd consider it weird, maybe a piece of junk [Original VPI base / Denon DP75 / Denon DA-401 arm / Dynavector XX]. Almost all my hi-fi gear was purchased used. I dignify it by referring to is as "vintage!" I can't fault the guy you met at Amoeba for having a Goodwill TT.
And if I buy my tires at Mexicali [for those of you outside Southern California, that's a real, decent tire store in Van Nuys specializing in budget brands and used tires]- so what? The tires on my used Ferrari are well-used too, like my turntable. [Ooops- I misspoke- it's an old Volvo... not a Ferrari!] Why pick on them- porque hablan español?
The guy with 10,000 records and a cheap old used TT is on the right track. He gets to listen to a ton of music for cheap-- that's more like my goal. I've always recommended you spend more of your "music budget" on records, not on costly new gear.
While having a good record player is nice, unless you have good record care techniques I think it's a waste of time. Every record player I've ever heard benefits from clean records and proper alignment.
Best regards, Ralph
as long as he is using something good enough to not destroy the records and he is happy, then it is all good. Actually, if he has 10K plus records, it's not likely he'd be able to destroy very many of them even if he were playing them on an ION TT with ceramic cartridge, so I guess it's all good.
I'd probably be able to afford a much better turntable, etc. if I didn't buy so many dang records. But what I have is "good enough" for me, and I like buying records and I'm not into the whole audiophile upgrade-every-two-months thing.
Even though I have some expensive, upgraded vintage Thorens, Garrards, with audiophile grade tonearms, I have no problem listening to my music on a garage sale or Craigslist bought cheap turntable. Once the music starts, the turntable disappears. I'll take my cheap Sansui direct drive over an entry level Rega or Music Hall.
TR
;-)
My #1 priority is will it damage records? Anyone trying to collect vinyl who uses a ceramic record player needs a cheap garage-sale turntable and a new stylus...fast!!
After that we can worry about how good it is and whether it meets the collector's ultimate needs. Some people don't ever need to move out of mid-fi and I don't buy for a minute that today's typical tables are better than a good used one.
To explain to children why adults act the way that they do. I have come to the conclusion that adults are just screwed up kids with power. Now that they have power they can adopt the attitude that they know best and others are wrong about their approach to certain things in life.I don't care what anyone uses in their rig as long as they are happy. The down side to people out there using poor quality gear is that there are a lot of lousy used LPs being generated. That sucks but we cannot make people be what we want them to be no matter how right we think we are.
I will draw the line on the notion that a turntable (or anything) has to be of a certain brand or a certain type to be any good. We used to think that people with different colored skin were not as good as people with the "best" colored skin and this turntable snobbery is a very small example of that thinking pattern.
I was raised to think all of those same narrow minded things too. I have tried very hard not to be that way and teach my children to accept people and things for what they are and on the basis of merit.
I am sorry for going down the path of predjudice but that is exactly what we are talking about here. In this case its a predjudice about turntables but its a dangerous thinking pattern.
In the case of turntables I have heard enough examples of different models and technologies that I am pretty certain that any approach, done carefully and by someone who cares about the product, can yield a decent performer.
There are so many fine examples of turntables that it makes me proud to be a member of this goofy fraternity. Its a great hobby that includes one of the most human things of all...music.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Edits: 07/23/12
Hello,
I agree I have picked up some good used tables for $25.00 or less. I usually send them to the shop for a tune up and a new cartridge. The only thing I'm snobby about is the el cheapo record players with the ceramic cartidges,(Crosley, etc)that target is selling for $100.00. IMHO someone can do much better with a used $25.00 70's DD table.
Record players with ceramic cartridges, like Crosley, I don't think of that attitude as snobbery. Its more a case of understanding what is or is not a good deal for your money and not liking those who would take advantage of an uneducated consumer.
If you had a false pride about that knowledge, then I suppose that could be deemed snobbery.
Sometimes I'm not sure about things when it comes to people. Its tough to term someone one thing or the other when we all have so many facets...or something like that.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
I do have standards, but I'm not a snob. I've seen perfectly good Thorens tables at garage sales for $20. There are plenty of excellent performing turntables out there that don't cost an arm & a leg. (The Pioneer PL-12D is one.) Plenty of great sleeper DD tables from JVC, Pioneer, Sansui, etc. that don't get much attention from the audiophile crowd, but are great performers, nonetheless.
Cheers,
Bobbo :-)
For $20 or less I have bought at garage sales, estate sales, etc., a Thorens TD-160, Thorens TD-125, Thorens TD-124 (!!!), Luxman PD-272 and a JVC QL-50 with an SME III, among others.
I will take any of those over an entry level Rega or Music Hall.
Its not about what you pay or where it comes from ...its all about what it is.
....and no, I am not a turntable snob. One of my favorite tables of all time is the Pioneer PL-12DII.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I have a very decent table in the ProJect Xpression III. I know there is much better out there but you would also have to spend a whole lot more as well. I rather spend the time collecting music and playing it then to be overly disfunctional and obsess over achieving perfect sound. :) Life is far too short for obsessing over perfection. (no disrespect intended for those who do)
... are poor examples then it might not matter what type of turntable you play them with. Lots of people have basements full of records but that doesn't always mean much. Are the records moldy and beat? Or, are they clean and neat?
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
A crappy sounding table won't show off the advantages of vinyl. It's possible that the guy bought a good table, but like anything mechanical, it needs adjustment and care. Chances are, he's not doing that.
Life is too short to obsess over material things. I have a decent rig, but if it died I'd go back my old SLP2 w/o missing a beat. Once the music starts playing, I don't notice nor care - I'm listening to it, not the machine.
Software first is my motto. He's got the original pressing records, hopefully in good condition. That's what counts. If that 20$ thrift TT happens to be a 1970s Pioneer PL-12D, well refurbed and set up with a decent MM cart with new stylus, you're in business. I cleaned up dozens of vintage flea/thrift TT from the Golden Age of analog and every time i was rewarded with glorious analog sound. The most important piece of hardware IMHO is the phono preamp or the internal phono stage of the amp.
"The torture never stops"Greetings Freek.
Because if he uses a $20 table with a $5 tonearm, it's likely he's also using a cheap worn out cart, which in turn is not exactly good for the software, which is indeed the most important thing!
Question of balance as usual.
When i mean i cleaned up i mean fixed up with good carts and stylii. Of course you need a good stylus and cart, the whole TT well set up and placed.
"The torture never stops"Greetings Freek.
Is that the same as me...? I have a 1970 Plymouth HEMI 'Cuda, 4-speed, 4:10 Sure Grip, Double Holley 4bbls, a Weiand manifold, Chrysler POWER CPPA race headers, Dynomax mufflers, crossoverpipe, dual 3" exhaust (stainless steel) yet have rusty 14" steel wheels on it, studded snow tires, (rear) fronts are bald and cracking (dry rot) the trunk is full of unused golf clubs, picnic supplies, water skis, old jacks, unused tools, coolers still filled with dirty water from ice that melted back in June 1990. I use Quicky Mart's Petro-Star unleaded gasoline, 87 octane and can't figure out why this HEMI is a bit down on power, and pings when hot...?Ed
"Some Folks Need An Education ... Don't Give Up Or We'll Lose The Nation" C. 1970 MARK FARNER of Grand Funk Railroad from "Sin's A Good Man's Brother"
Edits: 07/23/12
That was probably a missed opportunity to invite the guy (and some of his records) over to hear what a "snob-worthy" vinyl playback rig sounds like. For me, it would have been a win/win. I would undoubtedly hear some LP's/music I hadn't heard before and he might have an epiphany on what is actually locked inside the grooves that his current rig isn't letting him hear. Just saying...
I try to remember that at one time all I had was a BSR mini changer. Gawd, did that suck!!
the bastard... But a run of bad luck forced him to sell it a couple of years ago.
eso
They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves.“ Henry Chinaski
Why would you presume he hasn't put in the work to acquire a decent one?My stable in that price range ($25 and under)
Dual 1229q
Dual 1219
Technics SL1200 MK5
Thorens TD 166
Marantz MA 6100
Technics SL 1401
--------------------------
Do I have to spell it out?
C----H----E----E----S----E
A---N---D
O---N---I---O---N---S
Oh no.....
Edits: 07/23/12
To me, someone who has a ton of records, doesn't care what he or she plays them on and just enjoys the music is far healthier than someone who obsesses over things like imaging, surface noise, cleaning fluids, VTA, cartridge loading and the name badge on their turntable.
Of course, a healthy balance is great too. That is, plenty of LP's and a decent sounding rig that lets you hear what's really in those grooves-for better or worse!
I don't think that someone into analog "should" have anything, though. If they are happy, then why hassle it?
Vinyl + Tubes= Bliss
a low level technics or pioneer is a good place to begin. the detachable headshells make it easier to learn the skill of changing cartridges and engage the hobby.
with some guidance, the amoeba guy could really blossom, if only to protect his records.
...regards...tr
Sudz...your friend loves music, but isn't an audiophile
I owned a BMW 740i a while back (OK, it is not a Ferrari) and did not want to pay $150 per new tire. Went to a place that sells used tires and paid $70 ($35.00 each) for two used high performance tires. I guess the same analogy can be made for buying used audio equipment. :)
Remember those 35 dollar tires when your wife/girlfriend/mother/children/etc. are riding around with you....and..what you're absolutely right about is that your BMW isn't a Farrari
d
Don Walker
I think we all know "audiophiles" with 20 approved records and a few extra favorites. All equipment and no music. It's the polar opposite of what you're talking about. This guy has the music that we'd all like to have and we end up with the way to play it best. I'd rather have the music.
Some people either don't have the money to spend or are unwilling to spend a lot of money on this hobby. Nothin wrong with that....
If you've got 10,000 records you've paid the entrance fee. After that, it's what you want to spend your cash on. Even at 50 cents per, it's $5000 for that collection and I don't think that if you had that many records that they'd all be from Salvation Army.
Also, when I was thinking of 20 records, I was thinking of the guy with a $5000 table and no music.
Edits: 07/22/12
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: