|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
99.16.66.194
I was lucky several yrs ago & found an orig LZII with RLss in deadwax in NM condition at a record show for $10. It blows every other domestic pressing out of the water. Bernie Grundman's remastered version for Classic Records comes nearest to Ludwig's orig mastered version, IMHO.
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
-----------------------------
Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/ADC XLMII-Yam C-70 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
Follow Ups:
Professional audio people laugh at us audiophiles?We insist on preamps without tone controls so the purity of the signal is not trashed. We agonize over endless adjustments on our LP playback rigs. And we dig through countless LPs to find that best pressing?
For the one thats been punched up the most? Where is the purity now?
Its a joke. People who claim this or that pressing is the best and it turns out that the mastering engineer added some boost here or there to make the LP sound the way it does. Where is the concern for the purity now? What is it that makes this the supposed best pressing?
And why do we bother? As concerned audiophiles we should go out and find the equipment used by these mastering engineers to "punch up" the sound and be done with it.
It would save us a lot of time and effort searching for specific pressings.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Edits: 06/08/12
that's what engineer's do. It must be whinny friday. Just think, in 2 days you'll be back to work ;)
Ed, you might find this clip interesting. Ludwig reveals that even record producers were not always purists or rewarded mastering engineers who toiled to preserve the producer's original mixes. I can't help it; I find this stuff fascinating.
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
-----------------------------
Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/ADC XLMII-Yam C-70 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
Edits: 06/08/12
What is a "modern" multitrack recording anyway? It's certainly not an attempt at reproducing live music. So if it's "punched up" or otherwise altered in the studio, it's just an extension of what was taking place anyway. To a point, I suppose.
For me, the point here with LZII is what Atlantic did by overreacting to Ludwig's very full sounding cut (which is very clean with full bass and excellent dynamics). Atlantic gutted the bass on subsequent masters. Unfortunate. So, for this particular Lp it may be worth finding an "RLss" copy or acquiring the Classic reissue mastered by Grundman. My original 1841 Broadway label has "RLss" s.1 and "ss LH" [Lee Hulko] s.2. Hulko and Ludwig were both at sterling, and both sides seem sonically equivalent to me, so I suppose he & Ludwig mastered this disc by the same playbook.
On some of the other AES clips with Ludwig, you'll hear him say he was also about "getting out of the way" when he was handed a really well recorded and mixed master. He's a fascinatin' guy.
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
-----------------------------
Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/ADC XLMII-Yam C-70 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
Is the old MoFi but finding one in near mint condition is tough and expensive. Its not as "punched up" as the LP this thread is about and I imagine its closer to the sound of the master tape. Which is what the Classic's were.
I own Classic Records pressings of LZ I, LZ III, LZ IV and Houses of the Holy. My In Through The Out Door is a Warner/Pioneer and is very good. When it came to the Classic Records LZ II, I already had the MoFi pressing of LZ II which was very good and anything offered by Classic would have been marginally better if better at all. So I skipped buying the Classic LZ II.
I suppose you could describe the MoFi LZ II as cut slightly lower in volume like most original MoFis. I suppose they did this to take advantage of the low noise floor of the vinyl used in their pressings. The end result is a very dynamic LP that definately rocks the house. I was happy with what I had and left the Classic alone for another buyer.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
if a particular mastering/cutting sounds good to me on my system then that's all that matters to me. i could care less what the mastering engineer did to boost or not boost or whatever to get it there....if you or others do then....so it goes
Its how people carry on about how great this pressing is or that pressing. Usually the deciding factor will be the "punch" or "drive" of the music in the supposed pressing. In the light of the video supplied that factor means less than nothing.
And I do agree I too also go for the best sounding pressing. I value the quiet pressings with very good dynamics. I suppose that the music industry professionals had it right. Crank up that compression and make the "drive" the highest you can make it.
I hope this thread isn't followed by a pressing shootout. I'm not certain I could keep a civil tone.
Maybe I'll have another cold one,
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
whether it's in a thread like this or a 'pressing shootout' i find opinions on different masterings/pressings can be a good learning experience on how well/or not one was done and sometimes like this thread the why.....doesn't mean i have to agree with or care what others think the best pressing should be on my system.
thanks to jazzthusiast we even have a thread where the engineer is talking about it....there should be more like that
Agreed. It's great to get the real story from Bob himself.
My father has an RL. He would shake the walls with it back in the day when mom was out food shopping. LOL! Unlike Ertegun's daughter, apparently, he had/has a Technics SL-1400MK2 with a Stanton 881MKIIS which could handle it, no problem. I have the Classic and that's good enough to where I've stopped hunting down an RL for myself. Before getting the Classic I got a later pressing of LZII. In all honesty it was a pretty dismal sounding pressing in comparison to the RL (and subsequently, the Classic). It's all about the reference point. If I had never heard the RL or Classic, I would have been just fine with the later pressing.
Seen this one? Didn't realize there even was a mono version.
Music Reviews: http://solidgrooves.wordpress.com/
SMAC website: http://sites.google.com/site/michiganaudioclub/
Nt.
there isn't a dedicated mono mix. that's a csg mono which was a cheap way for labels to make mono's for am radio stations. they can be pricey but for rarity not sound quality.
Wide open and unrestrained is how I describe it. The music jumps out of the speakers, it sizzles, and is ballsy. My copy has a decent heft to it as well.
Dave
i also agree that the classic grundman is very good.
the video reminds me of grundman cutting the original classic reissue of who’s next too hot for a lot of systems. if I remember correctly he cut it with both solid state and tubes....the tubed cut being the hotter one. after a number of complaints they repressed it with the solid state cutting. I find the tubed cut to be a great listen on my system played very loud like it should be :)
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: