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I came into Jazz in the early 80's, listening to artists such as Bob James, Ramsey Lewis, Grover Washington, Spyro Gyra, etc. And, to this day, some of my favorite records are from that period. "H", "Skylarkin'", "Routes", "Catching the Sun"...I mean, c'mon! It doesn't get much better.
From there I ventured back into the 50's and 60's Jazz, and love that stuff, too. Got tons (quite literally) of the stuff.
But one thing that's always been a bit of a curiosity for me is the fact that the 80's stuff is never...NEVER reissued (there are exceptions, I know) by the majfor reissue labels. It's always the same damn recordings that get a reissue for the umpteenth time (if not the artist, then the label).
Jazz didn't begin and end with Blue Note, or did it?
Was the 80's really THAT unworthy? Really?!?!?
Am I alone in feeling left out?
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
Follow Ups:
from the mid 1950's to the mid 1960's. The 80's were really bad for jazz.
Edits: 05/28/12
For me, the Golden Years of Jazz were the contemporary stuff from the 80's. The 50's and 60's stuff was pretty good, too. :)
Cheers.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
I've got plenty of smokin'-great records made in the 80s from people like Phil Woods, Oscar Peterson, Mose Allison, Dexter Gordon, Michel Petrucciani, McCoy Tyner, Anthony Braxton, and many more.
There are a lot of great recordings from that era on labels like Pablo, Palo Alto, Blackhawk, Elektra, and other labels not well known for jazz.
Cheers,
Bobbo :-)
No.
If it wasn't for listening to people like Bob James,Chuck Mangione,Grover Washington,Jr..etc, i probably wouldn't be a fan of Jazz.
Unfortunately,some folks think that any Jazz past 1965 is not "Real"Jazz.
Some folks don't like Jazz mixed with Rock or Funk or they don't like Jazz that's too accessible.
Also,Jazz is mood music.
You wouldn't grab a James Taylor album if you're in the mood for something loud & aggressive.
So it doesn't make sense to grab a Bob James record if don't want to hear laidback,"Smooth Jazz" music.
Jazz recordings in the 80's ?
Jazz as far as fresh innovations 80's
Live Jazz in the 80's?
Most of my recordings collection was acquired in the 80s and that was equal parts 60s , 70s and 80s recordings I would say .Perhaps the 80s jazz looked back in time more than was with the times(80s) or looking forward.
the 80's for me will be remembered as a decade of taking in live jazz performances
memorable live performers:
Ella, Stanley T, Sam Rivers, Tony Williams, Ira Sullivan, Miles, Jawinal Syndicate, Methany-Hancock-Dejonette-Holland(at Wolftrap), Ralph Towner,
Eliana Elias... OK the 80' were good (to me)
I think the 1980s was a very good decade for jazz, better than the 1970s.
Clearly the thing the period will be best remembered for is the emergence of a neo conservative movement led by Wynton Marsalis and all the related music he and his friends and collaborators made.
That music was and is not particularly my bag but during the same era there was great stuff...some of my favorite jazz records of the last 30 years -- Ornette's In All Languages and Song X; Muhal Richard Abrams' Hearinga Suite; Blood Ulmer's Odyssey and the early Phalanx stuff; all those great early David Murray Octet albums on Black Saint (Ming, Home, Murray's Steps, New Life); Sun Ra's Fireside Chat with Lucifer; The Art Ensemble's Urban Bushmen; the WSQ records; Ronald Shannon Jackson's Decoding Society albums; the earliest Bill Frisell records....plus as others have mentioned the reemergence of Sonny Sharrock.....a good period all in all of music I very much still listen to.
Jason Chervokas
Keith Jarret? jan Garbarek? Jeremy Steig, David Bromberg........huh?
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
The idea that jazz should not offend or have edges kind of drains it of the adventure. I suppose it could be akin to West Coast jazz, but in any event, much '80s jazz could be like elevator music. There stopped being an intimate effort to communicate with the listener, and instead was often intended as background music.
fostered the 'smoov jazz' era and new age. some good artists got caught up in the money grab and kind of ruined their rep doing so. bob james (hes early stuff is GREAT: BJ 1-4 for instance), david sanborn (he stated at a smoov jazz concert that the producers always told him to "play like david sanborn) who was great on michael franks' early stuff.
michael fell into it for a while but has returned to his real genre-jazz that is smooth (different from smooth jazz) and his newer releases are quite enjoyable. i still love his albums up until about the camera never lies until barefoot on the beach. (http://www.allmusic.com/artist/michael-franks-p6526/discography). i have them all and will listen to them all, some on LP, some on CD. the last one i bought was the LP "LIVE" recorded in 1980. interesting pics on the cover etc.
back to sanborn-his album "another hand" is always cheap in the used bins because its nothing like his other solo albums, it is REAL jazz, not what most sanborn buyers are expecting.
dave grusin put out some real winners and some real pedestrian items as well. same with larry carlton. ETC!
still, some good jazz was made during the 80s and i listened to KLON (now kkjz.ord) and never left real jazz, just as i never left vinyl. i added cd to the lineup and kept all my LPs.
...regards...tr
I'm giving away my age here but i saw Miles Davis live a few times in the 1980s at the NSJF. With guitar players like Robben Ford and John Scofield. Unforgettable. There was a jazz club in the province town in the East of the Netherlands where i lived then as a student. Saw lots of good jazz there, veterans of the 50s/60s/70s but also young post/neo boppers like trumpeter Jarmo Hoogendijk. Dutch guitar master Wim Overgaauw. Drummer Billy Higgins doing an entire drum solo on 2 ride cymbals.
There was a record library on campus with lots of good pop, rock, classical and jazz. You could hire a record for a week, if you liked it you copied it on a cassette tape. I was mainly into jazz rock/fusion in those days, think Spyro Gyra, Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Casiopea. But i also discovered "real" jazz, Jim Hall.
In the mid to late 80s there was a renewed interest in blues, think Stevie Ray Vaughan and Robert Cray, and jazz, think Wynton and Branford Marsalis. Ok there was also lots of bad clothes and hairdo's on "empty vee"...
"The torture never stops"Greetings Freek.
My friend Ronnie played drums on quite a few of the late '70s/early '80s Progressive Records releases. Ronnie turned me on to a number of these LPs, extra copies he had stashed away. This is real Jazz, the good stuff. Check out records by: Arnett Cobb, Dick Meldonian & The Jersey Swingers, Chris Conner, Buddy DeFranco, Carmen Leggio, and Hank Jones.
I've got a few records from that label, and I like quite a bit the Sonny Stitt record. I think it feautured a famous bari sax player, too, but can't recall the title.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
All of the suggestions below, especially all the ECM artists are superb.
I would also add David Sanborn to the list. I have a 12 inch promotional single of David Sanborn and Bob James- "Maputo" which I picked up recently and was totally blown away by the sonics of the pressing.
Get the record.
It's quite good.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
kinda like a good idea (fusion) spiraling down a dead end street.
Some of it was nice and pleasant, but when placed up against the more adventurous fusion stuff, one realized just how shallow it was. For instance, Miles 'came back' in the 80's and he was paired with some of the weakest (but popular) 'smooth jazz artists' on the concert circuit...people like Najee, Spyro Gyra (one of the better groups), Gerald Albright, Kenny G.
Hearing Miles and any one of these groups on the same stage, the contrast couldn't be clearer. Miles was playing a fusion of funk, rock, jazz, blues and who knows what else...most of the times I would attend the second set, and Miles would then play first, I guess he couldn't be bothered to break the instruments down after the first set when traditionally the opening band would play first. Anyway, long story short, after listening to Miles many people would just walk out on the smooth jazz act....sometimes I would try and stay for a least a couple numbers but the music was just devoid of 'soul', hell once Miles was paired with B.B. King, and BB King sounded kinda' shallow following Miles, I walked out after 2-3 tunes.
There were lots of good enduring jazz in the 80's, but the smooth stuff got all the airplay...fast forward to Now and smooth jazz is like wood veneer paneling, hot in the 70's, but people grew tired of the fake looking wood.
Miles...
Can't touch him. Not many folks could have stood alongside him and not been totally reduced to nothingness.
Agree somewhat about the "smooth Jazz" thing. A lot of it does bore me to death.
But even within that "smooth" umbrella, there are lots of artists that I'd personally call "contemporary" that sound amazing.
"There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind." - DE
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
From what you listed, you already answered your own question. I would say yes.
nt
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
Art Farmer, Art Pepper, David Murray all put out several excellent records in the '80s. Andrew Hill, Horace Tapscott, Steve Lacy, too. Jackie McLean and Ornette Coleman were still producing good stuff. Bill Frisell. Several great Dave Holland records on ECM. What about a new generation? Young lions like Wynton and Branford Marsalis, Roy Hargrove, John Zorn, Dave Douglas, Joshua Redman, and Steve Coleman came onto the scene. I could go on. And these are just the players I know about; there are many, many I don't know. Lots of great jazz in that decade. It wasn't the '50s or '60s but it wasn't exactly a desert, either. Ya just gotta poke around.
Edits: 05/25/12 05/25/12
Yeah, I have a few Andrew Hill albums from the 80's on my want list. The only one I can think of off hand is Shades, but I think there were a few I liked when I was doing some youtube sampling a few weeks ago.
Happen to be listening to his Black Fire right now. I love Andrew Hill!
A great record reminiscent of the Blue Note years in compositional brilliance. It has Greg Osby on alto--another phenomenal young lion who emerged in the 1980s. Verona Rag (1986) is classic Hill solo piano. And I'm with you on Shades--it's one of my favorites of all his records. Hill was such a treasure!
but the labels on both sides say "Internal Spirit". No one really gave a crap about making good LPs at that point in time IMHO.
I wonder how many they made that way. Hard to believe it would have gone through many pressings, though, so maybe all of them. I haven't found this one on LP yet--only have it on CD. I like the music a lot.
nt
Sun Ra were still going strong. The Leaders...There WAS plenty of good stuff.
Ya just gotta poke around indeed!!!!
"BEWARE the Blunted Needle!"
Edits: 05/25/12
The Art Ensemble's Urban Bushmen (1982) is a fascinating record. Sun Ra's Reflections in Blue (1987) and After Hours (1989) are two of my favs by him
I just finished listening to another great LP from that decade, Jarret's live Nude Ants (1980).Nice thing about much '80s jazz on vinyl: it's generally cheap and available in excellent condition. I picked up five '80s Art Pepper LPs on Galaxy for $7 each in mint condition a year ago. The playing is up there with the best he ever recorded.
Edits: 05/25/12
nt
The dB's, Minutemen, Gang of Four, Pere Ubu, Wire Train, Concrete Blonde, XTC, The Replacements, The Smiths, The Church, Bauhaus, R.E.M., Fire Town, The Cure, Buzzcocks, Joy Division, The Jam, Husker Du, Suburbs, Talking Heads, Hoodoo Gurus, The Cult, The Psychedelic Furs, Robyn Hitchcock, Squeeze, Del Amitri, Elvis Costello... among others.
Plenty of great rock & pop in the 1980s.
They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves.“ Henry Chinaski
i followed a number of ecm artists (jarrett, metheny, towner etc,) and also oregon, coryell, freeman, corea and others into and through the 80's.
Although it was a '70s release, Paul Bley "Open, To Love" is a great solo improvisational piano lp. Really hot recording and a great performance.
I've got several ECM lps, and I buy just about all that I come across.
eso
They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves.“ Henry Chinaski
I thought the 80s was a great time for jazz. I bought lots of records then and also saw lots of live artists from the period. Not a big fan of the artists you mention, but I really enjoy:
Steps Ahead
Pat Metheney
Art Ensemble of Chicago
Dave Friesen
Ray Drummond
John Hicks
Elaine Elias
Harvie Swartz
John Scofield
There are so many great jazz names and records from the 80s. No way it was bad for Jazz.
I asked the question simply because none of the major reissue lables have touched anything that was contemporary in the 80's.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
...there is so much of that stuff readily available on the secondary market at reasonable prices.
I like Bob James too. I probably have five or six of his LPs and doubt I ever paid more than a buck for one.
Tough to do that with "Kinda' Blue".
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
but I pretty much have concluded that BN lovers buy, whereas the others likely might not. As in all things life, money rules.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
.
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
Me, I like 80's jazz music, because when I hear them it helps me to remember when I was in grade school! I do like 50's, 60's and 70's jazz and blues too except those recorded on 78's. I do not care about those music recorded on 78's(Is that 30's or 40's I do not know and I have no interest of knowing) Why bother?
Are 80's jazz all bad? Not to me! I remember that I used to listen to a jazz broadcast on radio daily (as I have no money to buy any equipment at the time nor LP or cassette)to the likes of Alphonse Mouzon, Sadao Watanabe, Ronnie Laws, Seawind, Noel Pointer, MFSB, Spyro Gyra, Stanley Clarke, Grusin, etc. and it made me happy.
Call it whatever they like (Smooth Jazz, etc.), personally,I do not care as long as I enjoy it.
Generation Gap! It is like anything audio, if it is old and rare, it is the best right?
I agree it's a generational thing, but what strikes me as a bit odd is that folks who really like contemporary Jazz from the 80's appear to be a tiny fraction of a minority. Either that, or they're too embarrassed to make it publically known.
Like it's some kind of a guilty pleasure.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
But of course, there was always some smaller label trying to put out high quailty music and recordin. A good example is ECM, Black Lion, and others who ket the flames of post bop alive.
Chick Corea was coming out of his electric zRock-Jazz fusion and doing more and more acoustic along with the electronic. John McLaughlin, Sonny Rollins...? After Mahavishnu and Return to Forever, etc. there are some great collaborations with Hancock and Corea, for exaample.
Rollins was big enough to draw large audiences (I saw him at Heinz Hall in Pittsburgh) and Milestone records was putting out some great post bop.
My wife's uncle, who sadly passed away his past month, and I would lament over the Jazz and ten in the same breath, talk about the good Jazz there still was..."but we don't have the Broadway link that was so strong in the fifties.
Jim Strickler was heavily involved in communications, told great stories of the Jazz people he'd met, but we both agreed that Jazz has always ha its lows and highs.
With the advent of Pop and the huge bucks spent on Rock acts, Classical and (let's face it, Jazz is America's Classical music) Jazz had to take a back seat...it was inevitable. While no longer, by the 80's definitely, a major force in the music industry, Jazz exists with a life of its own.
It may have become a niche in the music world...it still is, the 80's was and is just a part of a larger society that (once again) viewed Classical and Jazz if not with disdain, definitely frighteed the masses...the average Joe doesn't want to think about the music, he wants a beat to help him drive down the road...the rhythms of Jazz to complex to dance to (and fewer and fewer people WERE dancing).
So we had the demise of Disco, the demise of protest folk, and of protest Rock. And as I wrote above, those smaller labels held true to that niche music. Columbia could sell a few million Fleetwood Mac LPs...ECM sold a few thousand Jazz LPs.
The 80's weren't a low point, it was a continuation of what had become a small audience. But like anything really good, it hangs on, builds upon the past musicians and their history and the newer voices took over...Marsalis and the rest of the "Young Lions" Marcas Roberts, vibist Gary Burton ( a bit older than most of those guys), Pat Metheney, et al came out of the 80's with a bang.
Think of the 80's as sort of a pressure cooker that built up pressure but too small to take over the big oven that Pop had become.
******************************
Music. Window or mirror?
like the brand new heavies - HELLS YEAH! ;-)
Edits: 05/25/12
But I'll agree that it brought that style a bit more to the masses.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
Maybe a broad generalization, but it seems "Smooth Jazz" predominated in the '80s. I realize it's all a matter of taste, but I just don't care for it personally. Good as easy listening background music while shopping in a store, but not what I'd choose to listen to at home.
+1, jazz had really taken up the "smooth" format and sucked big. It was about that time I got introduced (from CC and WR) to "classic" jazz, like BN and Bird, along with Miles, Trane, early Evans, etc. No comparison there. But, there was some good stuff out there that was trad (VSOP), fusion (DiMeola & Scofield, Metheny, Jaco) that is pretty good stuff. Also, got turned on about that time, maybe later, to Courtney Pine, who's stuff is amazing (to the eyes of creation, destiny's song, others well although he also had a "smooth' period), Blanchard & Harrison (Black Pearls, amazing album), Branford Marsalis... These may be more '90s stuff, but is good. Still, in the '50s and '60s, you almost couldn't buy a bad jazz album, that totally switched in the '80s... Kenny G, Yawnni, and John Tesh, I would rather listen to country...
Kenny G is NOT jazz. Easy listening, yes; Jazz, No!
he IS a good player and is capable of jazz. he plays other saxes than the soprano which i have heard and could be a force if he wasnt busy lining his pockets with his usual drivel.
he hosts a contemporary jazz segment on kkjz.org and its not horrible. he also plays real jazz on the program which shows he actually has sme taste.
but youre right, mostly, his music is not jazz per se.
...regards...tr
And please explain your answer, as I'm curious about this. I've often heard that remark, so-and-so "is not Jazz" but haven't really been able to put a finger on as to why, other than it's simply an opinion stated as fact.
I'm sure you didn't do that, right?
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
Lew, did a great job of explaining it. Technically speaking, Kenny G is considered "Smooth Jazz." While he made lots of money doing "What a Wonderful World," jazz musicians and jazz aficionados consider it sacrilegious what he did with Louis Armstrong's song.
If I was going to listen to saxophone smooth jazz, I would rather listen to Candy Dulfer. She is also much easier on the eyes! While "Lily was Here" was her biggest hit, check out her live version of Saxuality below.
From Wikipedia:
Dulfer's debut album, Saxuality, was released in 1990 and was nominated for a Grammy and certified gold for worldwide sales in excess of half a million. Her song "Lily Was Here" reached #11 on American the Billboard Hot 100 chart. Though Dulfer has had smooth jazz chart hits such as "For The Love Of You" and "Finsbury Park, Cafe 67".
Maybe if you can explain to me exactly what it is that Kenny G is doing or trying to do, then I can tell you why I don't think he is making jazz music. In fact, I think he and some others of his contemporaries are a cause of the general loss of popularity that "jazz" endured during the 80s and 90s. Young people heard Kenny G and did not always like his music. Then they were sold on the idea that he was a "jazz musician". Ergo, they decided they did not like jazz per se. I met some of those kids and tried to convince them that they had the wrong idea about jazz, by referring them to other sources. There were many great jazz artists performing in the 80s, some of whom are still with us. Sadly they never received the recognition afforded Kenny G and the other pop equivalents.
When I have had the misfortune to listen to Kenny G, like if I was stuck in an elevator or in someone else's car, or in a dream where I am a captive of the North Koreans and they are torturing me, my impression is that he is trying to make "beautiful sounds". There is no exposition, progression, denouement. No real emotion and nothing innovative about his playing, either. The musical equivalent of a bodice-ripper romance novel.
I have friends (mostly female ) who adore him...my opinion is that he's wonderful. A good dose of him when I've been constipated for a week and BLAAAAAAAAP! He straightens me right out.
******************************
Music. Window or mirror?
I was there for 10 days and i could not go to a high end restaurant that did nor play him at point or another. Good thing that that Portugese have good wine and you can drown him it .
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
:)
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Isn't that alcohol abuse?
******************************
Music. Window or mirror?
This reminds me of a funny story.
About 15 years ago at work a then kid asked me If he had me locked in a room and was going to subject me to Kenny G or Nine Inch Nails for my punishment which would I chose. I replied - Well Gustavo, I've never heard Nine Inch Nails so I can't say. With that Gustavo went and fetched an NIN CD and put it on the boom box. After a minute or so of careful consideration I replied that I would go with NIN. Some guy, younger than me but older than Gustavo jumped up and started yelling at me: How can you say that Devil worshiping crap which my kids listen to is better than a fine artist like Kenny G!! I'll never have any respect for your musical taste again! Oh Well.
Phil
Phil
Have you listened to him prior to his solo career? Barry White? Jeff Lorber? Legendary Seattle soul/funk band Cold, Bold and Together? The guy can play! He chose to make money.
That is so funny my friend. Kenny G. actually crossed my mind earlier in this thread.
"I remember the first time I heard Kenny G. I thought, oh damn, now I owe Barry Manilow a big apology"
Personally, I think Jazz in the 80's is really really bad...to me, Jazz after the mid 60s started to go bad...first to "free" Jazz then to all sorts of things. Even the progression of the "jazz" sounds from icons like Sonny Rollins (my favorite of all) started to not be my flavor... I mean, I am definitely a fan of Mile Davis Jazz in the 70s and 80s, or Sonny Rollins, etc...
I guess I am a sucker for the jazz created from the mid 40s to mid 60s...
Again, this is my personal opinion...
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