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One more try:Has anybody done an "apples to apples" comparison of the sound quality of Soundsmith's $150 re-tip vs. the $250 retip?
I have a Denon 103 and an old Dynavector 20xH to retip. Leaning toward the $150 level.
I've had 2 cartridges done at the $250 level, and I know what it gives you.
So I'm only looking for actual listening comparisons of $150 vs. $250 at this point.
Thanks,
Hukk
Edits: 05/22/12Follow Ups:
I have a 1.5mV Grado Reference that I had upgraded with the ruby cantilever. Out of the box it was a huge improvement of an already great cartridge. The one odd thing I notice is that the stylus is not perpendicular to the LP. It looks like it's tripping over on itself. I tried email and phone messages with Sound Smith with no response.
Jack
i have two modded dl-103's in wood bodies.
one with a ruby/fl, the other with an aluminum/elliptical.
i like the sound of the aluminum/elliptical better.
this is just a matter of taste.
the ruby/fl is cleaner, faster, more detailed.
the aluminum is less so than above but has something in timbre through the mids which i prefer.
going forward i will choose aluminum/elliptical for my dl-103's.
especially the nude on aluminum plate jobs.
can't say how my choices would work out for any other cart.
Just curious, what VTF are you using with your retipped Denons?
no change in suspension - just a re-tip.
I've found the ruby cantilever $250 retip to result in very fast-sounding cartridges. But warmth, body, and bass slam seem lacking. I will give the $150 level a try and report back.
Thanks again for your answer.
Hukk
As someone other than the OP who is interested in this information, I appreciate your answer. It is a nice mix of objective (as best as is possible) and subjective elements.
Thanks!
-=- Charlie F.
$250 vs. $350 on 2 ADCOM SXC-VDH. The SXC-VDH was the ADCOM top of the line in the 70s: VDH stylus, sapphire cantilever, HO (about 2.5 mV) MC.
The sapphire cantilevers were quite brittle. Peter replaced both: 1 at the $250 level & the other at $350. There was an obvious improvement at the $350 level over the $250. However, they both tracked & sounded better after their stay at Peters health spa.
Since then, over the years I have had 9-10 cartridges that underwent the Peter treatment all at the $350 level & all returned better than new.
Now, I hope & pray that Peter can rescue my Koetsu Platinum Tiger Eye that arrived at SoundSmith Thursday (5/17). It will not be a typical re-tip. I believe there is internal damage & consequently much more expensive to save.
Christopher
Qui tacet consentit.
The differences in cantilever and stylus tip add up to more or less resolution for your cartridge. You can spend the money to find it out for yourself but this is not like the first time a cartridge has had an aluminum cantilever and elliptical stylus.
Nor is it the first time a cartridge has had a ruby cantilever and line contact stylus and to slam a nail with a sledge hammer a ruby cantilever with the optimized LC stylus isn't exactly brand new either.
Your 103 will be better than the stock conical stylus and aluminum cantilever with the SS $150 retipping but not as good as the $250 retip...which in turn is not as resolving as the $350 retip.
We don't have to stop traffic or do we declare a national holiday to get this point across. The question is which one do you choose.
Personally I don't see the $150 option. If you are going to have a DL-103 retipped it seems a little more logical to take it to the $250 or $350 level. Its not like the DL-103 has anything to hide that a ruby cantilever will let out.
Some cartridges have a nasty high frequency peak that doesn't go well with a better cantilever and those would be right at home with the aluminum cantilever and elliptical stylus. Fortunately the DL-103 is not one of those cartridges. The more money you spend on a 103 the better it resolves.
There were two cartridges in the DL-103 line that came with aluminum cantilevers and elliptical stylii. The DL-103S and 103D. Denon called them special elliptical stylii so its hard to project what the differences between the SS elliptical would be compared to the Denon stylus.
I own a DL-103D and the differences between the Denon "special elliptical" stylus and aluminum cantilever compared to the SS $350 retip is quite dramatic. I have tried the VdH boron cantilever with the VdH type 1 stylus and the SoundSmith $350 option. Both of these were head and shoulders above the aluminum stylus and elliptical stylus.
I just do not see how the $150 option is a bargain. It would be interesting to hear Peter's take on this option but I would not be surprised that it exists to make sure users that insist on an aluminum cantilever can be serviced.
After trying a number of cartridges with different cantilevers I would opt for a better cantilever if the funds were not a problem.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Stanton 380 Fluxvalve. Price was not the issue. It just made no sense going to the ruby cantalever and line contact stylus. The Technics 310MC that went with it will get the optimized LC.
I think you are out of luck except to ask Peter. It is unlikely many have the same cartridge with the different levels on the same head shells. Only way to compare "apples to apples."
On different cartridges I believe (this is opinion) that my Dynavector 20XL and Grace F9 both benefited from the speed of the ruby. The Dynavector far more noticeably. The Grace retip was still superb, but the sound of the original, while not as fast, is addictive in rock.
In your music choice you will have to decide as aluminum with line contact has produced some great cartridges.
Discussing my options with Peter at Soundsmith he suggested that the big jump is between $150 and $250.
IMHO go $250.
Is it possible to do an "apples-to-apples" comparison of an apple and an orange? I think that is what you are asking.
The $150 retip uses an aluminum cantilever and an elliptical stylus. The $250 retip uses a ruby cantilever and a line contact stylus. That sounds like apples and oranges to me.
Now, you can probably do an "apples-to-apples" comparison of the $250 and $350 retips because they both use the same ruby cantilever but different line contact styli.
Good luck,
John Elison
Not knowing any better, I went for the $350 ruby and contact stylus retip on my broken Benz Glider SL a couple years ago.
I figured the wait would be long and a good cartridge like the Benz deserved a good retip.
I couldn't tell you what the sonic differences might be between the different retip offerings from Soundsmith, but I'm real happy with the results on my Benz.
Hope to see you this year at RMAF. Something came up last year and I couldn't make.
Best regards,
John Elison
In the same system.
With the same records.
Voila, you have just conducted an apples-to-apples comparison of the $150 and $250 retip levels.
Why not do that yourself? There's nothing like real world experience. One man who has definitely done the comparisons is Peter.
when you say Why not do that yourself? it seems clear that you either didn't read the OP or you didn't understand what you read.
He has heard the $250 job on carts he owns. He hasn't heard the $150 job because he doesn't have access to any carts with it.
Seems simple enough to me: the OP just wants someone who has heard the two retips to describe what he heard.
Or am I missing something here? That's always a possibility.
-=- Charlie F.
LOL! Usually folks who start off with "I don't mean to be argumentative"...
I think what you're missing here is evident in most of the previous replies. So, I think I'll leave it at that, respectfully.
For Rega arms I'd go for Level 1 .I have level 3 on my Dynavector XX-1 and don't like it. It needs fine adjustment Rega lacks,and is very hi-fi sounding. I put old Adcom HOMC with elliptical stylus and music is back. My, 3 cents YMMV
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