|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
76.107.199.118
I am considering adding either a Bob's Devices 1131 or 3440AH Step-Up Transformer between my MC cartridge and my phono preamp. Has anyone listened to both of these SUT's, and if so, can you describe how they differ sonically?
Follow Ups:
The Lyra folks recommend a 10-15 ohm matching impedance if you're going to use a SUT with the Kleos. This would leave out the 3440A ( I use one with a DL-103 @ 37.5 ohms with great results). Does anyone know what the available impedance's are with a 1131 ?
The 10-15 ohms is what the cartridge should "see" after the impedance has been transformed based on the SUT gain. At 1:36 (your Cinemag), the 10-15 ohms range is covered but you have to use a loading resistor in parallel with the 47K phono inputs.For example, at 1:36 gain, if you want very close to 15 ohms seen by the cart, you can connect/strap 33.2Kohms at the input of the phono section or the output of the SUT (whichever is convenient to you) and the cart will "see" 15 ohms.
You can calculate it yourself using the link below
Edits: 04/23/12 04/23/12
the 3440s are about $150, I put mine in an aluminum case and wired them up to the phonos, maybe I am lucky, but no hum, and they work great with my Denon DL-103. The Cinemags are slated for my preamp build in the near future, right now they feed the input of a Yaqin MS12B...
The Bob's Devices CineMag 3440A based SUT is excellent and was an outstanding value at it's original $395 price. But the price has gone up to $650. His more recent CineMag 1131 "Blue Version" is noticeably better but I could easily live with the 3440A. The 1131 "Blue Version" goes for $1195.
I don't have time to do a thorough review but I find the 1131 "Blue" to be tighter in the bass, more extended up top, and it sounds a little more full in the midrange. It's possibly slightly smoother overall.
I find the SUTs combined with a MM phono stage to be my favorite combo. I had the Graham Slee Era Gold V MM phono and the Elevator EXP head amp but found the 3340A SUT coupled to the Era Gold V to sound better than the matching Graham Slee head amp. I've had similar results with the SUT on the Hagerman Cornet Silver Edition vacuum tube phono stage. I'm presently running the SUT with a Musical Surrounding Nova Phonomena (switched to MM mode, even though it handles MC on its own).
There's something about an SUT that to my ears makes the setup sound better vs added gain from more tubes in the front-end or more solid-state gain. The SUTs sound a bit more dynamic and "alive", too. Just my 2-cents worth.
I think I saw Bob's Devices in a recent Stereophile and The Absolute Sound.
My Bob's Devices 3440A and 1131 "Blue" SUTs
Great photo of my cables!
Christopher
Qui tacet consentit.
...I also recall a short blurb on Bob's Devices in an earlier Stereophile or The Absolute Sound. Wish I could find it. It wasn't a review, just a short blurb.
The cables are sounding great too! They're slightly stiff but just enough to hold their position once set. I like the Vampire connectors. I'm not sure if the Eichmans will fit these cables. If not, a more flexible cable will do.
I'll have to compare the cables to my DH Labs Silver Sonic Air Matrix, which are my standard cables that I've used for years.
UPDATEAbe, Bob has had 2 Stereophile reviews. TAS has not done any. So far: Stereophile (2 reviews by Art Dudley), Dagogo, 10Audio,& another that I do not recall at the moment - now I remember 6moons
Glad you like the cables I built for you. I will tackle the Eichmann Bullet project this weekend. Great photo!
Christopher
Qui tacet consentit.
Edits: 04/25/12
Forgotten review (see earlier post) - 6moons
Christopher
Qui tacet consentit.
Playing that record with the Nova unplugged?
It might be the camera angle or I caught the flashing RED light when it was off between flashes.
The light flashes RED when charging, stays solid RED when fully charged, or solid GREEN when playing from the batteries. It's not very bright and has a limited viewing angle.... which I appreciate. No blinding BLUE LED!! ;-)
If you want something with ultimate versatility, then you might want to consider Jim Hagerman's Piccolo. I have two of these in my system. They have 4 levels of gain with the first being zero so you can load your MM with 68k 75k or 100k if you have a Shure V15x model.
The low gain stage works well with medium output MC such as my VanDenHul MC 10 with 0.49 mv output.
The medium and high gain stages work with my low output coils.
What I love the most about the Hagerman is you change the cartridge loading on the fly with the music playing.
It's the most amazing head amp I have ever built as a kit.
Please note that Jim Hagerman only sells these as fully assembled pieces now. His website is:
http://www.hagtech.com
I have no affiliation with Jim other than my endless appreciation of his design skills.
He has advertised here and he is a true gentleman.
As for the Bob's devices piece, I have seen them and heard them and the Cimemag pieces are terrific values for the money.
As for me I am no longer looking for step ups. The Piccolo is utterly amazing.
"Help support our school's Music programs"
and a Dyna 20XL. To my ears the CineMag SUT was sonically superior in both cases. It was quieter and at the same time more dynamic.
Opus 104
First, if the dynamics are better with the Cinemag then there is something wrong with the build. The dynamics should be the same if both the gain settings and cartridge loading are the same. The Cinemag does not have a higher gain setting than the Piccolo.
More than a dozen inmates heard my Piccolo at Ribfest 2010 where I demonstrated the value of having the resistor loading values on the fly.
We used Ricky Lee Jones "Easy Money" track and even with tightly spaced resistor changes you could clearly hear the changes to RLJ's voice quality. I think we were using Mike's Shelter cartrdige at the time and I had it loaded for 19 ohms 33 ohms 75 ohms 100 ohms 500 ohms and a 1k load. So the listeners could hear the value of having the resistor loading on the fly.
John Elison commented that it was the quietest head amp he had heard and I concur.
I used the Blackgate FK series caps for the B+ rails that have s/n levels -160 db. These are the quietest caps on earth. Building the Piccolo with better parts makes for a quieter noise floor.
Jim Hagerman's current Piccolo is built with quiet parts. I emailed Jim about the current Piccolo just a few weeks ago.
I heard this piece at Ribfest 2010 and 2011. MuzikMike reviewed this professionally and purchased his review sample.
As for me I am not longer looking for a step up or a head amp. I highly prefer the Piccolo.
I think your opinions are based on an early version of Jim Hagerman's Piccolo.
VMMV
"Help support our school's Music programs"
And there's more to dynamics than gain and loading. The CineMags were quieter with a blacker background. That could explain the edge in dynamics.
Opus 104
"First, if the dynamics are better with the Cinemag then there is something wrong with the build. The dynamics should be the same if both the gain settings and cartridge loading are the same. The Cinemag does not have a higher gain setting than the Piccolo. "
Dynamics can differ independent of gain or loading. I have not tried the Piccolo but in every setup that I have tried for MC cartridges, I find the CineMag SUT to sound more dynamic and transparent.
I owned the well reviewed Graham Slee Elevator EXP head amp which is arguably higher-end than the Piccolo. In every setup where I tested the head amp vs SUT, the SUT came out on top. This includes phono preamps that accommodate MC cartridges. Switching to MM mode and running the SUT always sounded better to me vs the active gain inherent in the MC phono preamp.
How much is a fully assembled and tested Piccolo? I might give it a try.
Graham Slee Elevator EXP MC Head Amp
What cartridge(s) are you considering using with these ?
If I was the one asking for the correct SUT, I will definitely evaluate what gain do I need first (with the linestage gain in play)and the range of the internal resistances of the carts I am going to use.
IMO, when you have the right match between the cart and the SUT, using the transformed impedance of the SUT only as the cart's load, the sound is much better than attenuating the signal or changing the load seen by the cart using resistors. In other words, not all cart will sound "best" at 36,145,and 580 ohm load (1:9, 1:18, and 1:36 for the Cinemag 3440A). Not to mention the maximum signal that your phono preamp can take before it saturates as it has a dramatic effect on dynamics and overall presentation.
My opinion only of course.
Hi amandarae.
I have a 3440a (built by VA member anumber1). I'm considering a DL-304 to go with it. Have you tried the Denon with the CineMag and if so - how did you like it? It will be going into a Graham Slee Era Gold Reflex M.
As an alternative I'm considering DL-103R (which I know should work well with the CineMag) but I think I'll prefer the more exquisite presentation from the finer stylus on the 304. Also it's going on a RB700 arm.
Thanks.
Krenzler,
I think you will love the 304 with your Cinemags. I have one too and I use 1:36 gain with no issues.
Abe
nt
I haven't studied the turns ratio, transformation, and impedance loading but I have found both the CineMag 3440AH and the 1131 "Blue Version" from Bob's Devices to work quite nicely with the small range of cartridges that I own including:
Dynavector 17D3
Benz Glider SL (with Sound Smith retip)
Denon DL-103R
I wouldn't mind trying that Hagerman Piccolo someday but I got it confused with the Bugle. I recall the Bugle being inexpensive and probably worth trying w/o much fuss. The Piccolo is $399 and since I'm very happy with the CineMags, I think I'll pass on the Piccolo unless I stumble upon a used one at a good price.
Mr. Collins, I am with you on this one! I prefer the SUT sound also than the SS headamp.
Like you, I had traveled the head amp route before(I used to own the Piccolo with both sets of the original OP amps and a replacement that some users says better)too. Also had the Bugle and I made mix and match with Cornet 2/Bugle/Piccolo/SUT. I prefer the SUT by a lot! I am a DIY person. Believe me, if there's a hint of hearing in my system that the headamp has more potential than the SUT sound I am getting, i probably built most headamp circuit posted in DIYAudio already.
Honestly, if you are going to ask me, I will say forget about the headamp. Probably, it will just be a waste of your time. If you like the SUT than the headamp before, it means that you already found a great combo (phono/SUT)on your system. Why change it? I tend to disagree about the statement I read from Jim saying "..if the Piccolo was built correctly, it should be with much better dynamics than SUT etc..." or something like that. IMO, it has something to do with the "load before gain" with the headamp and "gain before load" when using the SUT and how it suits one's system. Regards!
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: