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has anyone compared these two cartridges? I see the DL-301MKII has a metal body, something that many are buying for their DL-103 to improve the sound, wonder what other aspects the 301MKII might have over the 103... thanks
Follow Ups:
thanks, all, for your answers. Have any of you compared the 103R to the 301MKII or even the 103? Amadarae, you said that you had a re-tip done to your 103, do you feel that that was an improvement, and to what degree? I ask as the 301 is the next in price to the 103, cheaper than a 103R, and is noted as having a metal body, something that many users are moving to on their 103 carts, and not at a particularly cheap way (Zu 103). If the 301 is basically a 103R with a metal body, buying new would be a good bit less expensive than getting a Zu or adding a metal body to an existing 103 ( and yes, I am aware the wood body 103s also have their fans...) Also to the question of the re-tip, the $250 ruby cantilever, does that improve the sound significantly such that a re-tip would be a much better way to go than a new 103. I have recently received a 103, and really love it compared to the 110. Insofar as I am going thru carts about 10-12 months, and my current and near-future income has taken such a big hit, getting the best value for the money around $200-250 is important and I thank everyone here for their many excellent suggestions...
As long as it works well with your rig. The 301II is about $325 and a DL-103R or DL-103 can be had used fairly cheap. I bought a used one with a snapped off cantilever for $60 some years ago.
Unfortunately I volunteered it as a item to a fellow inmate who wanted something to design a wood body around. As a rsult I am down to the DL-103D, DL-103M and the DL-103R. Its hard to trust people and some don't deserve the time of day.
Just who these are is a tough call.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Opus 104
And expect them to sound the same.
A DL-103 with an elliptical stylus or line contact stylus would be a viable comparison with the DL-301II. But they are both Denons.
The type of stylus and cantilever is a paramount consideration with the sound of a cartridge. If you spend time studying cartridges, whole lines of cartridges are differentiated by stylus and cantilever only.
Anyone who has retipped a cartridge or replaced a stylus with a SAS stylus can readily testify to the fact. Retipping a cartridge can effect its sound and there are cartridges that have a high frequency peak that is hidden by its stylus and cantilever. The DL-103 is not one of them...
There is also a price difference due to the type of stylus and cantilever. The LC stylus and exotic cantilevers are more expensive than the aluminum cantilevers and conical stylii.
All of that said, the 301II is a fine cartridge but I believe that the DL-103 with a good retipp and possibly a different body (or no body at all) is a better cartridge. The 301II is a higher compliance cartridge, so it will match a different selection of tonearms, but the 103 matches more tonearms than one would expect.
SoundSmith sells retipped and various body DL-103 and DL-103R cartridges. These can be bought with increased compliance as well.
I am a big fan of Denon cartridges due to the fact its a non-nonsense cartridge that far outperforms its more boutique competitors (in the same price range). Dynavector and others make their main business what you see but Denon is a big manufacturer that makes its cartridges as a side show. As a result they do not sell them for what they possibly could sell them for. Not too many years ago they dropped phono cartridges from their USA product line but that was the dark days of vinyl.
I think you would like and be satisfied with either depending on the compatibility with your tonearm.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
comparisons to identify differences. Then again, some of us are sharpeners and some are levelers.
Comparing a Ferrari to a Yugo is not a valid comparison if you want some useful information. In the same sense comparing a cartridge with a conical stylus and aluminum csntilever is not very useful unless you want to know that a better stylus and cantilever yields increased high frequency resolution.
I suppose that would be information to someone but its one of those moot points that can be extracted from paying attention to the performance of cartridges over a period of time.
Any cartridge can yield increased performance if the stylus and cantilever is upgraded. Unless the stylus and cantilever is chosen to hide a weakness in the cartridge at hand, the improvement can be readily heard.
Admittedly I was a bit scratchy yesterday (dealing with an insurance company) but the basic complaint holds. Why compare a basic cartridge with a cheap stylus and cantilever to a model with a better stylus and cantilever?
I'm certain that the first observation is that the cartridge with the better stylus and cantilever has improved resolution. Its an observation that has been made countless times before and the reason that an Ortofon 2m Black costs more than its lower priced members of the same line. The stylus on the Black is a more advanced profile and its ability to extract detail from a groove is greater than its lower priced cousins.
That was the reason I referenced people who have performed retipp jobs and replaced their stylii with the SAS alternative. Those selections improve the resolution of the cartridge at hand. Its the same cartridge with a styus and cantilever that is more capable of tracing the groove.
The sole interesting thing brought up by this comparison is that the DL-103 performs as well as it does with a humble stylus and cantilever. It speaks well for a design that has been talked about ad naseum. And I'm a big supporter of the 103 family.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
You equate detail and information with performance, but although detail has importance, I would equate performance more with tone, and for that I prefer a conical stylus. Guess I just enjoy the view through the windsheild of that Yugo, LOL.
Edits: 03/22/12
As long as you have that baby working as designed. Of course we would all like to have a Ferrari or Bugatti but real life is a bitch.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
I've been running 103R's for about 4-5 years now in various iterations: stock, rebodied (ebony and clavellin) with the stock cantilever and stylus, and rebodied (ebony and aluminum) with Soundsmith retips.
My experience is that the tone (or performance of the cartridge as it relates to tone) of the cartridge is not really altered but it's abilities to both retrieve more information and remain much more composed in really dense, complicated musical passages are both enhanced with the ruby cantilever and LC contact stylus (I have the midline $250 retip on mine) that Soundsmith installs.
As a backup cartridge and its a fine performing cartridge. Its just that it can be considerably better if it also sports a LC tip.
One of these days I have to send the 103R to Peter for a retip so I can have a backup that will serve a bit better. The real surprise is my DL-103M.
That cartridge is a 103 but comes with a boron cantilever and special elliptical stylus. It also has VLOMC in the same range as the DL-S1.
I have tried the 103M with a lot of stepups and headamps and it does have a sound that is pretty nice if you have the proper associated equipment.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
The 301mk2 has a plastic body that looks like metal. I have owned both carts. and prefered the Ebony bodied 103 to the 301mk2.....
Hi,
I have the "wood body" 103's (ebony and panzerholz, plus 103R retipped and with panzerholz) and they do sound great. I would recommend if you can try the 304. It has the "wood body" attributes but I would say better on the top end.
I believe the limitation of the 304 is that you need a quiet but with a very high gain cart to line preamp path (I use Altec SUT at 38 ohm setting and Wright Wpp100C using 6FQ5A which I find lesser tube rush than that of 6ER5/6GK5's). I tried the Cinemag at 1:36 but does not sound as good. I am using origin live Silver MKI as tonearm.
regards,
Abe
the 103 does better, especially in the critical midrange. Keep in mind these carts do best in different arms. The 103 does best in medium to high mass arms. The 301 likes low to medium mass arms. Both are good trackers, surprisingly good for the conical 103.
And FWIW, I prefer a wood body for my 103. In this case, an ebony one.
Opus 104
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