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I guess one reason I like vintage gear is that I grew up listening to the pop music from the 50's 60s and 70s. Radio stations had unique personalities back then, and were not homogenized duplicates of each other, and the top 40-tunes were hummable.But something happened in the pop music world starting in the 1980s. We experienced a steady decline as all sorts of non-musical heavy rock, hip hop, rap etc took over the music scene. my interest in what was going on in modern music deteriorated rapidly. All of this continued to the end of the 20th century.
But then what? American Idol came along. Suddenly the pop music that I loved in the 60s and 70s is back again, and in a big way. HUGE numbers of viewers watched a show Tuesday night where the tunes basically all came from the 60s and the 70s, and they totally loved it.
I suppose the cynics would write off American Idol as just another reality show that captures peoples'attention at the moment.
But oddly enough, I have been thinking much the same as Diana Ross was saying last night. We have kids who grew up on the crappy stuff the music industry (often unsuccessfully) tried to sell in the last two decades of the 20th century. Yet here these same kids are now on TV singing ballads and pop tunes from a decade or two earlier and seemingly having the time of their life.
Suddenly a lot of little kids are saying to themselves "what I really want to be is a pop singer like the singers I see on Americal Idol."
What this show has done for the music industry that only recently has been in an advanced state of decline is nothing short of amazing. It has proven to record executives that it is possible to sell zillions of recordings of music in genres where only recently they thought was almost no market. Can you imagine someone like a Clay Aiken hitting the charts with a top recording had he shown up on the scene before American Idol? No record executive would have had enough confidence (courage) to spend the money to record and market him. Or for that matter a host of others who appeared as winners or as losers on the show over the past 5 years.Prior to all of this, the kids interested in pop music could mostly only follow the rap stars who were not really producing "music" as such but rather speaking to a beat using a lot of 4-letter words. Suddenly the idealized role model is completely different for these same kids.
What's happened basically is that American Idol has somehow managed to single handedly revitalize the entire music industry not only in the US but world-wide and created a whole new generation of young people interested in becoming serious pop music performers rather than NBA or NFL stars and in idolizing the pop stars that come out of the process. That the show appeals to those in their 60s (Tony Bennett will be on one of the future episodes) as well as those in their 20s says a lot. (Who claims the Lawrence Welk show is dead? Lawrence Welk fans are now watching this with the same interest they had for that show).
I don't really care what happens on American Idol in terms of who gets voted off first or last at this point--it doesn't matter at this stage. What I do know is that out of the dozen or so people you are watching right now, two or three of these individuals are on the verge of breaking out and becoming major stars, just as has happened in each of the last 5 years. Who exactly these individuals will turn out to be at this point does not depend on who stays on the show the longest and who gets voted off and all that hype.
Having said that, I do think two of the women, Lakisha Jones and Melinda Doolittle, are way ahead of all the others this year, and I expect that they will both be there at the very end. My personal favorite is Lakisha, tho I admit Melinda is excellent as well. Lakisha has a one in a million set of pipes, heck it's one in 100 million--what a gift! I would be totally shocked is she weren't a very major star a year or two out, if that. Tune in to see the next Aretha Franklin at the first stage of her career--heck she aready has a better voice than Aretha has!
Bottom line: American Pop music, after a long and steady decline in the last 2 decades of the 20th century, once again has a real future. The vintage guys here should all celebrate that.
David
Follow Ups:
what an odd way of looking at it..granted-- pop music has never been about music, moreso about the songs. but the notion that rehashing the warhorses of previous generations pop stable is somehow revitalizing music is an idea i'm loathe to.
i won't disparage their abilities or sticktoit-iveness.. i won't say they aren't trying to do their best-- but there is a LOT more to the progress of MUSIC than singing other people's songs, the flashy light show, the absurd judging, and making ford or coke commercials snappy and (un)interesting.
modern music reflects the people making it, and although you see a decline in 'heavy rock, rap, electronica'-- the truth of the matter is, that it's no different than the music of previous generations using different tools. there has ALWAYS BEEN, and always will be, crap-- or to paraphrase nietzsche 'there will always be mediocre art, as there will always be mediocre people.' you can't honestly believe that the monkees or donovan were somehow equally talented to miles davis, the beatles or the who- nor equally able to put forth a vision of 'modern music'. and of the two options, it's very clear to me at least that the risks taken by the latter were what MADE them what they were, and precisely what curtailed the careers of the former. THAT is pop music- it reflects what will SELL, hence POP. it IS NOT reflective of the future of music.
if american idol is the future of POP music, so be it, but as for it's being a vision of the future of american MUSIC is a very depressing notion-- as depressing as the realization that since MTV became the arbiter of tastes that anyone assessed 'good enough' to perform has to be capable of a thorough airbrushing into perfection before their talent is even considered.
... an oldies station played every billboard #1 record from some time in the late 50's up through the mid 70's. Went on all weekend as I recall. It sounded like it would be lots of fun.Man what a dissapointment. One Craptastic song after another. Remember Bobby Goldsboro's Honey?. How about Harper Valley PTA? Sugar, Sugar, anyone? Sure there was some some good stuff, but more than 50% was total drek.
I can't imagine anyone wanting to go backward from here. Yes, the music industry is in decline, but it's not because there isn't good music, it's because the corporate idiots can't figure out how to control it.
The internet has brought us music discussion forums, pandora, itunes, CDbaby, internet radio and more. Artists are exploring boundaries in every direction. I haven't been this interested in music since I discovered FM radio in the late 60's.
Go back to hearing the same songs from the same artists over and over all day long? No Thank You
... as long as it's the Wicked Pickett's version! Wonder if Sigur Rios ever did a cover thereof???
nt
My oldest daughter listens to Korn, Orgy, Marilyn Manson, etc., my youngest daughter is a classical musician, and Dad has very, very eclectic tastes.I've always said that in every genre, going back as far into music history as you want to go, 20% was utter crap, 60% was totally ordinary, and 20% was absolutely fabulous.
Still applies.
When you listen to "all oldies", it's usually filtered to just the most popular songs. Start listening to all the songs released in any given year, and it'll curl your hair.
Ah, Bobby Goldsboro! Now THAT was a singer. I remember his single,
"Leaving the Straight Life Behind," c. 1968. Every time it came on
I thought my hair was on fire.
"American Idol" has nothing to do with the music business; it has everything to do with pop television in a debased culture. Opiate of the masses and weekly staple of the water-cooler crowd.
Besides, it's crowding out a great dramatic series and a surprise hit, which is "House."
I read today that Fox wouldn't back "The Sopranos" because it wasn't violent enough. Tells you where their heads are.
I grew up on all those Fifties and Sixties tunes as well, and loved most of them. But I'll stick with jazz.
I think there is a lot of truth in what you say. The popular music of the 80's and beyond has pretty well turned off older generations. Me included. And if I sound like I'm getting old, I am!I'd be very interested in the demographics of American Idol and the other talent shows.
However, there is still a lot of good stuff to listen to. Norah Jones, Diana Krall, and Jack Johnson to name three; and there's lots more if you take the time to look around.
I also think the current popular trends (hip-hop and rap) are at least partly responsible for the increased popularity of Country and Western. Some of that you can hum or even sing. Plus, they don't feel they have to pose as hoods or gangsters to establish themselves.
Also, American Idol did produce an Oscar winner.
Somebody in this thread mentioned Dillon. Good lyrics, terrible singing. One of the weirder things I've heard was in a recording of Joan Baez from the 1962 Newport Folk Festival where she sings a duet with Dillon. Talk about the Odd Couple!
Rap has profanity? Gee, so did Frank Zappa.
With a few notable exceptions (Evita, Chicago, Chorus Line) the movie musical has gone away. Not that I'd want to bring back Busby Berkely. But to a great extent, the kid's movies have some very good musical backgrounds, like Happy Feet.
I guess while I admit to liking the popular music of the 60's and 70's better than today's, I really don't think all is lost, and i can still find radio stations to listen to. (I have pretty eclectic tastes, anyway) I'm not sure how big an influence American Idol will be on the youth-do they even watch it? (which is why I wondered about the demographics of the viewers) Contrast the music on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno with what's on Saturday Night Live. Different demographics, different music.
Interestingly, one of the bigger recent movie hits that was a musical was "Dreamgirls"---and that had an American Idol connection too LOL. If those guys keep at it they will end up revitalizing the movie musical too. For some time Broadway has been hiring Idol alumni--this started out for pure financial reasons to sell tickets, but at the end of the day American Idol is feeding Broadway new stars as well.I can understand their reluctance to make too many changes for a winning formula whether it be format or personalities. Idol ratings generally are higher than ever before this year--never mind that Randy prefaces everything with "Dawg", Paula acts spaced out quite a bit of the time and Simon is more caustic than ever. No doubt the producers are orchestrating the details of 99 % of the bad behavior. Chris Daugherty, one of last year's losers, now has a debut album with his band and it has already sold 1.7 million copies.
Whatever you might thnk of the silly antics, tune in this year just to hear Lakisha and Melinda sing...
If Lawrence Welk were alive today, he would be watching every week in search of just the right American Idol participant to add to his show too--you know, one of the quieter ones with spot on pitch that most of the others had more or less completely overlooked.
Billie Holiday once said that she wouldn't sing a song unless she felt it. Joan Baez said something similar about pop singers - that they have great voices, but no soul (paraphrasing of course).The teenagers on this show are whittled down to fit into the corporate mold - shiny, pretty, young faces that can sing and sell Coke. It used to be that musicians made it on their own before selling out. Now they sell out before they even start.
Serious artists would never be caught dead even thinking of auditioning for that show. And here's a short list of people who wouldn't make it through the first few auditions even if they tried:
Tom Waits
Rickie Lee Jones
Bjork
Bono
Kate Bush
Kurt Cobain
Joe Cocker
Nick Drake
Peter Gabriel
Mick Jagger
Janis Joplin
John Lennon
Annie Lennox
Bob Marley
Jim Morrison
Robert Plant
Bruce Springsteen
Rod Stewart
Neil YoungThese would be the rejects that we all would laugh at for trying. And the winners would sound exactly like Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears. Yay!
There's nothing wrong with liking these corporate shills - but don't try to compare them to real artists. Korbel tastes pretty good, but it isn't champagne.
here are a few more that would be cast aside for the kelly clarksons of the industry:lou reed
david bowie
van morrison
eric burdon
felix cavalieri
Which Bono are you talking about, Sonny or Cher?Most of the people you listed have been on television, are skilled at self promotion and have made plenty of dough.
While you're thinking it's about art many of them are thinking it's about entertainment and a living. Or a head-blowing off as the case may be.
You're mistaken about the purpose of the show. It isn't to entertain - that's just a lucrative side effect; it's purpose is to make money. If Fox could make more money airing an hour of a cow eating grass, it would replace American Idol in a second.
"You're mistaken about the purpose of the show. It isn't to entertain - that's just a lucrative side effect; it's purpose is to make money."
You really sound like an old man.Your parents thought what you were listening to when you were young was total crap as well-that is what made it YOUR music.
One of the funniest things I ever read was Dave Barry describing how much he HATED it when his parents heard "The Long and Winding Road" by the Beatles and liked it and how it started appearing on radio geared towards "old people"...it was HIS music and how DARE they listen to it.
He also describes in full detail how much his father hated Hendrix, and even before that Buddy Holly. Can you imagine??? Someone thinking Buddy Holly is the "devil's music"??? I love Buddy Holly...but I really think he is the farthest thing from offensive...but hey in 1959 older people thought he was.
Change is good...can you imagine what the world would be like if each generation continued to like the same stuff that the previous generation was into??? Where would we be??? I mean geez in the 1820's Paganini was considered to be on the same level as Eminem is today in terms of his standing with the "old" folks.
I have to agree with you man, let the youth live for Christ sake and stop trying to hold on to whatever last drop of coolness you have left in your aging bones by trashing everything since the eighties. There is always good music out there, don't rely on the mainstream music industry to be enlightened enough to find and give it to you, you have to dig and look under the rocks to find it. There are musicians who really beleive in what they do and sacrifice money and fame in order not to compromise what they know is right and real. As for the American Idol performers, singing the classic oldies might give them an education in music history and an appreciation for how it all came to this but be sure that if any of them release an album it will be some overproduced session album with hired writers and musicians aimed directly at the middle of the pop radio charts.
Its a shame because many of these Idols will never see their true artistic....not financial, potential until they are chewed up and spit out the other end of the music industry. Maybe then they will write their own songs and work with people they are compatible with and have a real musical interaction instead of the formula crap pushed on them by the record company.
So basically, whatever generates the most sales is the pop music for any given generation.
You don't have stations anymore like WLS was when I was in high-school; Rolling Stones' song followed by Frank Sinatra followed by Peter, Paul and Mary followed by Sam and Dave followed by The Beach Boys followed by Dionne Warwick.We were exposed to a wider range of new music on Pop radio then.
Internet radio does exactly this - and does it well. I've heard lots of new, very good stuff on Internet radio that I would never hear on regular radio. And you will hear pop mixed with jazz mixed with alternative mixed with blues, indie, reggae. It's the best thing to happen to radio since Allan Freed.I expect, however, that the corporatocracy (US govt.) will crack down hard on this soon, so get it while you can. We can't have widespread, independent radio stations that don't peddle the corporate crap - that's un-American. Let Clear Channel tell you what you should to listen to.
.
For anyone who thinks that this is a low point in music, they could not be further from the truth. There is almost too much music. The problem is that without corporate backing, 99% of the music cannot get airplay. Therefore, everything is being forced on to the net or, horrors, live performance. Finding the music is so broad and fractured that vey little of it can rise up to the popular conciousness.Two bands that should be ruling the world are Spoon and the Dandy Warhols. Beck is brilliant. Of Montreal is as throwback as you can get. The Flaming Lips are producing wonderful music. Jon Spencer.
The problem is not the music, it is the delivery system.
_______________________________
Long Live Dr.Gizmo
the last two 'pop' bands that held any weight with me were 'squeeze' and anything featuring the 'brothers finn'. as for todays overall music scene? there ain't a dylan or a lennon in the entire bunch.
Who needs another Dylan or Lennon? Move on dude, the sixties are over and all that give peace a chance hippy love shit while Joan Baez yodles her wretched vibrato all over Dylans stoned ass just wont cut it anymore. We have bigger problems and need new vision, adapt or die out.
"there ain't a dylan or a lennon in the entire bunch."Fine.
I "discovered" them years ago while checking out an FM3 at the low end of the band (college/student station). None of my acquaintances have heard of them and they don't seem to be on tour too often but many have heard their music w/o knowing it. A lot of the instrumental stuff ends up as bumper music such as when NPR ended a piece on the new atheism with.....a snippet of "Godless". "Bohemian (like you)" also shows up occasionally but not as the main course.
Over the last year or two I've stayed away from any threads about American Idol because they tend to generate more flames then the cable wars.I take a great deal of pride in saying that I've never watched one minute of any single reality show on TV, ever. Except for AI, if you categorize it as a reality show, which I don't, necessarily.
Why do I watch it? Because I love music, and I love to sing in the shower.
Is the show managed, the contestants carefully selected, in order to end up with a final group that appeals to everyone? Of course. Once it goes to the audience vote, however, all bets are off.
David is right about these final rounds, where every week has a theme, and the theme very frequently is based on an older genre of music. The purpose, of course, is to see if the contestants can sing something other than what 20-somethings are used to, and the main purpose is to provide music that the majority of the listening audience can relate to, so there'll be those whatayacallits...ratings.
But you know what? Everybody loves that music. I'm not a huge Diana Ross fan, so last night won't be my top week this year, but that's not the point. It's about the music.
And don't start ragging on me because they're not all the best singers in the world. That's not the point either. The idea is to find the best singers out of the ones who tried out, and singers over 29, and probably anybody who's ever recorded, aren't eligible. The point is to find somebody new. And you know what?
I'm going to buy every single album Melinda Doolittle ever records, because that young woman can sing like nobody since Ella.
They may be singing "POP" music on the show, but none of them have really put out a "POP" album after the show is over(except for Clay). This season also has its very first "Hip-hop" kid. Being a mobile D.J. from 1980-2000, I have had a close eye on the music industry. It was tough telling the parents of the many Bar/Bat-mitvahs I preformed at that there kid wanted me to play obscene rap music. Most flatly denied it until I read some of the lyrics to them. I basically told the kids and parents that if the album had a parental advisory on it that I would not buy, or play it. Only, if I could find a "clean version" would I play it. So, that is why I say that the music industry HAS been sucessful in selling the youth on "Rap crap". I watched in come and and thought it would be gone by now. I do agree that "Rap" is NOT music.
You may want to read on the Idol site what artisits these contestants admire and want to be like, they are mostly "Rap" and "Hip-hop" not "Pop". I bet most of these kids resent having to sing the old "Grand-parents" songs they do on Idol. Also, "heavy rock" is most defentialy music. It takes TALENT to play an instrument or sing, unlike talking a dirty poem to computer generated music(if you can call it that). Rock was pretty much already dead by the late 1980's.
-Dave
If Idol is the savior of the music industry, we are really in much sorrier shape than I ever thought. Fitting a extremely tight, pre-determined mold and sticking withing 0.0001% of what is possible muscially doesn't take much talent. You need a voice and you need to know how to play an instrument, but that's it. How about some real CREATIVITY? Some real self-expression? Some exploration? God forbid we do any of that in America, it would not be family-friendly and would not be profitable enough for prime time television. Disgusting.If American tastes had always been this conservative, rock and roll would never have been born. Neither would jazz.
and to write off 20 years of music as nothing but foisted upon us crap is just absurd. If David hasn't been able to find more good music to listen to than he has time to listen then that's his fault not the record industry. His entire post is nothing but an attempt at revisionist history. BTW, not all rap is crap. It's not really my cup of tea but some if it is really interesting and fun. And, if you think it takes no talent to do good rap Dave you might want to try some for yourself to see if you can do it.
John....
a
hehehehe Tinear,..i guess thats why the show chases me out of the room whenever judith watches it.
I guess its the whole presentation that numbs me...
I do love Simons comentary though..sometimes hes dead on.
While yes, as David put it,there have been some"discoverys" made there ,but the comparison to Aretha kinda suprised me
We have to keep in mind that these are Young voices,.. with a fair ways to go before we hear a seasoned offering
The other night someone mentioned Aretha, and i tried to think of anyone established in music that can match her control..thats the keyword..control,. lots of singers have power, Celine, Whitney, Striesand,..but most (especially Striesand) are weak in the that dept.. even after the yrs of polish in the business.
When i think of an Aretha match i think of Someone like Ella Fitgerald.smooth as silk , tough as nails, as the music dictates.
BUt hey... thats my take
But pull out Arethas recording with George Benson "love all the hurt away"with QUincy Jones at the big desk.. you'll see what i mean by full control shes all over the song, yet never stealing .
ANways, this is the wrong assylum for this, but hey,. seize the moment.
Are you actually watching the show Corner? Lakisha is as good as young Aretha was and Melinda Doolittle is comparable to Sarah Vaughn, Dinah Washington or even Babs. Doolittle has sung a wide range of material on the show and always done superbly. I think she can sing anything in any style. Doolittle is already better than Whitney, Celine etc. Do a little youtubing and watch her performences.You know I never watched AI, I thought I was too cool, too sophisticated. We started watching it only this season for the comedy value of the tryouts and stayed watching for the performences of Lakisha and Melinda. The rest can go jump in the the lake though.
Actually, did any of you watch the 1st season of Rock Star, the INXS one? WOW, did those people have talent; all already talented professional everyone of them, unlike the usual Idol participants. The last 6 weeks or so was a thrill, watching and listening with a hi-quality 5.1 system. Lightning didn't strike twice and the 2nd season was forced, but there were a few memorable performances; plenty from the 80s and 90s BTW. I find great new music every year; I'm not hung up on 'anything that was good was before [put some date here] and cannot agree with that idea. But, I digress. That's where the best of the two women differ on Idol; they have experience to go with their talent!Also, did anyone who watched Idol notice how high they turned up the echo and effects way up the 1st night the women sang; after the completely atrocious job the guys did? I'm sure they were thinking "if we don't make this sound sweet, people won't be back for the 2nd or subsequent weeks".
I didn't watch the show where they picked him, but I did see him in concert. He definitely can sing. But his stage antics seemed staged to me, ironically, like he sat down one night and wrote down the moves. He sang very well, but there was something missing - it just wasn't INXS any more. Even the other band members seemed a little bored with the show. He smoked onstage, but I bet he isn't a smoker - know what I mean?
Hey Tom,. yeah i do try to watch it..even though the show format bugs me alot.
Just to clear up,.. I went back and re read the posts again,. and yes i agree that Lakisha has the depth and understand of a YOUNG Aretha,. which is i think what folks mean,. Not to what i took originally as the Current Areatha... big difference huh.
Sorry bout that.
Im allways a sceptic,I guess it comes with the 10yrs or so doing session work,(keyboards), where you see alot of fine voices of both sexes come and go...and i allways wonder why.
And recently working side for gospel singers, you get to hear the ones that think they can,.and the ones that are born with it and continue to evolve.
THere are people that work hard in music all thier life with equal or more to offer and not get "that " idol exposure that these few have had.
But there is alot that will never ,ever be heard just because of the way the business is.
I wish the finest for all of them,.but hope that they will have a hit or 2 then find thier niche and stick with it.
You know how fickle the business is, and your second release allways comes harder than your first, cause people hold you too a higher standard and then you have to keep that momentum.Great voices, but i hope for them and for us we are still seeing them around in 10 yrs or so.
The test of time gets harder and harder,..except for a small few
Thats the business.
Just ask Aretha .ROb,
I look forward each week to seeing Lakisha and Doolittle perform. They have me hooked. AI is a show that everyone in my family enjoy watching. Everyone agrees that Lakisha and Doolittle are in a league of their own. AI has found a couple of REAL talents this year.
Not to take away at all from the talent in the show,,however what "bothers-me as far as watching it on a steady basis is the fact that most of the hit songs that one of the judges had in Her day, utilized electronic altering for Her voice..and yet she judges other's performance,,for good or bad...And, frankly, I find the use of the term "Dog" in reference to the other judges and performers "bothersome" to say the least....Just my 2-cents..
It is entertaining.
The live telecats sound very " live ".
Compared to the crap put out the last couple of decades, it is light years ahead.
When is the last time 30 million people watched a music show week after week ?
What does that tell you?
nt
Must be one of the few who hasn't seen A.I., though saw Clay Aiken & Kelly Clarkson inside Arco whilst an usher a few years back. They were actually more entertainin' than Liz Phair when she played San Fran's Fox Warfield around that time. One of me buds down @ the local watering hole had one of his sons head up to Seattle for A.I. tryouts a few months back. They said he had a nice voice, but was disqualified because ever'body picks Stevie Wonder songs. Told him to hip his son to Sam Cooke's songbook for his next endeavor(he was granted a return engagement because of his good pipes); there's gotta be a few good tunes therein! ... David, thought you were totally enamoured of Norah Jones! She might have that auld soul vibe, but she is contemporary. Hope she stops by da Bay this concert season. Giggin' inside Raley Field would be right on time, but a Berkeley Greek Theatre or Concord Pavillion stopover wouldn't be too bad, either(Mountainview's Shoreline Amplitheatre makes for a gruelin' drive home). You'd find Tori Amos & Diana Krall enticin' too! Took a friend to Tori's 9/11/05 Concord Pavillion appearance. Borrowin' da binox, she said "now I know why you love Tori". "Because she's a great keyboardist", moi inquired. "That too", she responded. Tori did great covers of John Lennon's "Imagine" & Madonna's "Live To Tell" that chilly East Bay evening! As previously stated, aint seen A.I., but to say this Lakisha has better chops than Aretha, that's blasphemy! Sorta like watchin' Sammy treat Eddie like a hired string slinger during Van Hagar's '04 tour! ... Yo HiFi Buff, Ian Hunter opined, in Mott's "Golden Age of Rock & Roll", that "the golden age of rock & roll will never die, as long as kids feel the need to laugh & cry"!!!
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