|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
207.253.243.25
Hello all,
I'm having the hardest time finding a good audio electrolytic capacitor model. I have tried all the usual suspects, mouser/digikey/allied, plus ebay and amazon. The only ones that meet my criterion are cheap no name chinese (see pic for a possible candidate). Apart from that the ones I found that seemed highest quality were Rubycon PX at Digikey's, and they look rather ordinary to me.
The specs I have are strict, as it is for re-capping a rather old amp ('90s), and the case is crammed so even the size matters ;-) The application is power supply filter caps, a single cell after the rectifiers. The supply is feeding a regulator, so being "audio grade" might not be necessary in this position but if the extra cost is not too high why not. I am re-capping because the caps there are 30 years old, not because I fall for the re-capping frenzy we see too often in audio. Original parts make is "Eurocap", it doesn't seem to exist anymore.
The specs are 2200uF, 63V, 105°C, axial but not snap-in, max diameter 18 mm, max height 36 mm. Lead pitch is 5mm on board but different pitch can be acceptable with a bit of lead forming. Apart from pitch all other parameters need to be exact. Low ESR would be nice but the ones currently in the amp are not marked as such, I believe it's not critical to the application.
Can anyone recommend a good source? Otherwise I'll go with the chinese, I'm a bit curious to see if the sound would be affected at all. After all technology has evolved since the last century lol
But since I'm doing this I might as well *try* to see what's the best reasonable option. I will *not* pay 50$ a piece.
Thanks!
Joris
Follow Ups:
Could be audiophiles are hoarding them.
Digikey has the Vishay BC 048. They will ship for free if you pay in advance. They have a name for that service so you would have to call them.
Denied facts are still facts.
That would do it, thanks a lot! I wonder why these haven't come out in my searches... Bad combination of search filters I suppose.
They are not specifically audio-grade, but they do are designed for power supply filter use, and long life, 4000 hrs @ 105°C, I like that.
Thanks again!
APPLICATIONS
EDP, telecommunication, industrial, automotive, and
audio-video
Smoothing, filtering, buffering in SMPS, timing
Portable and mobile equipment (small size, low mass)
From Vishay's data sheet on the BC 048
Denied facts are still facts.
I must admit I overlooked this on the datasheet, I was concentrating on electrical parameters. They are now in my cart at Digikey's :-)
I'll try to bundle 100$ of parts to get free shipping, I didn't see the "Pay in advance to get free shipping option", that may be availaible in US only...
I just completed an inventory of all electrolytics in the amp, I'll check with the schematics which would be critical to change, but I might go all out and replace all of them, this isn't exagerated after 30 years I think.
* When a check or money order accompanies your order, Digi-Key pays all shipping and insurance (our choice for method of shipping) to all addresses in the U.S. and Canada.
You can set up an account and get the price calculated, print that out and send a check or MO or you can just add up the parts cost, add your state sales tax and send it in with contact info including email with out setting up an account. Parts that say they may be subject to a tariff (from China) need 10% added. It's a great service when you just need a few parts. I doubt any other company would do that. Great company, IMO.
Denied facts are still facts.
Edits: 10/04/21
Not that I don't trust you, I just want to make sure it applies to me - I have an account at the Canadian Digikey, and can't find anything on that, I have searched all content for "check payment" and "money order" on both US and Canadian sites to no avail.You seem to be a living search engine, your motto should say "Better than Google!" ;-)
Thanks in advance
Edits: 10/04/21
if you don't mind dropping them off a few provinces over!
I'm not sure either on the shipping charges Tweaker mentions. But I have a Canadian account with them and month or so ago I was in the same boat trying to get to $100.00 for free shipping.
I finally said nuts to that. It could be days, weeks, months. Ordered less than $20.00 in parts. Paid $8.00 shipping. Ordered showed up next morning!
It was worth it! I would have spent that much on gas and a cup of coffee at the Tim's drive through if it was a local pickup.
As an alternative, I've brought up the cost by buying other peripherals. But I'm overloaded in that department and you may be also.
One of the nice peripherals though was some gold plated Schurter fuses. I didn't know they carried such a thing. Nicely spec'd for hospital and lab. Helped me pad the order and for sure to me at least they sound better than stock.
Jonesy
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
if you don't mind dropping them off a few provinces over!
Yeah sure lol ;-)
I checked with canadian Digikey and yes, shipping is free if you send paiement in advance with check or money order.
Of course you have to print out your order from the checkout page on their site and wait for your paiement to arrive to them through snail mail; but an option to keep in mind if you are not in a hurry and need only a few parts like tweaker mentioned.
I just verified this with them but you should check if it applies in Canada. I learned this quite awhile ago and thought I'd recheck it since it's been some time since I did it.
Denied facts are still facts.
Got a reply from canadian Digikey and YES, shipping is free if you send paiement in advance with check or money order.
Of course you have to print out your order from the checkout page on their site and wait for your paiement to arrive to them through snail mail; but an option to keep in mind if you are not in a hurry and need only a few parts like you mentioned.
So not only did you find that elusive part for me, you made me save money on top of it! You are a very kind person, thanks for your time and help!
Best regards,
Joris
De nada. You should be getting quite a bit of improvement soon.
Denied facts are still facts.
Good, I'll PM them right now. You've been a tremendous help. I'll remember to check out those Elna Silmic IIs.
The Elna ll caps are dogs gift to the audiophile, IMHO. They blow the doors off the Nichicon KZ. I have not compared them to Blackgates but that mute at this point, for the most part. This is what the company says about them:
Relieves the music's vibration energy
Decreases the peak feeling sound at high compass and rough quality sound at middle compass
Increases massive sound at low compass
Now you can't do better than that, now can you?
I suggest looking for a place to listen to them. They are RFS and Digikey has three pages of them in stock. If you like glare, brightness, "sparkle" and artificially extended highs look elsewhere. Be aware if not already that cap life increases massively as the real life temperature goes down. There is a formula for this. Tweaker
Denied facts are still facts.
Be aware if not already that cap life increases massively as the real life temperature goes down. There is a formula for this.
Yep I know, I also know about the "10°C rule" - Capacitor life doubles with every 10°C decrease in temperature. That is why I wanted 105°C rating - to match the original part's spec yes, but also max out on useful life. If those capacitors are rated for 4000hrs at 105°C, running them around say 55°C translates into more than 14 years of continuous use :-)
The amp I'm working on is well built, there are only two caps in each channel signal path and they put polystyrene film there. The 'lytics are for power supply filtering, and support circuitry such as current sources/sink, level shifters etc... Do you think it's worth putting the Elnas you speak about or any other high-grade audio cap in those positions?
I do have a '80s Rotel preamp that I use for its MM/MC phono stage that has 'lytics right in the phono signal path (bypassed by films though), so it could be a good test.
If electrolytics are necessary in the signalpath in the preamp, which is likely then definitely trying the Silmic there would be a good idea,IMO. As for the polystyrene's in the signal path I would say that they might not be the worst choice but given price constraints in commercial equipment that they are likely a fantastic spot to significantly improve the sound of that unit. Huge respect out there for copper foil and tin foil caps, I would say in that order. The relatively new kid in town for copper foil is Miflex, probably the KFPM is their least expensive model. I got mine from Europe but it looks like SonicCraft has them. My one experience with them is very satisfactory and it dovetails with all the love out there for copper foil. To me they are similar to the Silmics, very natural sounding, brightness and glare free, increased detail and clarity without and trace of being un-naturally etched sounding. Should be a small value in the signal path, I think, so a few extra bucks saved there would maybe not be such a good idea. I did have one excellent experience with tin foil and can elaborate on some of the choices if the copper foil are too expensive. YMMV. Tweaker
Denied facts are still facts.
You might consider the Elna Silmic II where they might be appropriate. I like them a lot as they do get great review by some and of course some don't like them. Call them up to get the free shipping.
Denied facts are still facts.
They didn't come up for me with my search parameters either. Tweaker has a special parameter I believe is called "persistence"!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Tweaker has a special parameter I believe is called "persistence"!
LMAO!
Besides Story's recommendation of Michael Percy, you can also try Partsconnexion.com.
There are also some Nichicon on eBay that meet your specs.
You say "axial", but I believe you mean "radial". That may yield more results if searching online.
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Hello Jonesy and thanks for you reply.You say "axial", but I believe you mean "radial"
Yes you're right, I got mixed there lol
There are also some Nichicon on eBay that meet your specs
Can you share a link? I'll search again, but the only Nichicon I found on eBay were rated at 85°C, I need 105°C parts like the originals. The caps are located right next to an heatsink and there isn't much air flow around (see pic). Perhaps choice is limited because I'm in Canada.
No luck at Partsconnexion :-(
-J
Edits: 10/03/21
That's 185 F. Can't imagine there would be a problem. The problem would be, IMO, if it sounds bad.
Denied facts are still facts.
I was wrong and you are correct about the 85 c temp. I think you found the same ones I mistakingly looked at.
I'm not having any luck finding anything reasonably close, even looking at new old stock.
If you don't come across anything suitable, perhaps you can post the name of the component you are working on? Someone may have been in a similar situation and came up with a solution. (I think Bang & Olafson used Eurocaps?)
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
The amp is an 1990 Rega Elicit. I like its sound and it has a very nice MM/MC phono stage.
The caps are next to an heatsink that has a 80°C cut-off switch attached. It works (Trust me I know ;-) so the caps shouldn't be submitted to more than that. I measured the case temperature with an infrared thermometer and it is stable at around 50°C on my usual listening level. So perhaps a 85°C rated capacitor would do - However as it would operate close to its maximum rating, I fear their life expectancy would be reduced. I don't want to change caps every two years, and a cap failure might wreck havoc with the circuitry.
OTOH, the original caps are spec'd at 50V, so a 63V part would be voltage de-rated, which increases the temperature safety margin. The reason why I want to go with a higher voltage rating is that the schematics say that 48V is present on the filter cell. That is too close to 50V for my taste, especially since the mains here is specified as 120V -10%/+15%. That means these caps are subject to short periods of over voltage - That may be why they are failing.
Sorry for the long post, I'm thinking out loud :-)
-J
Your a tough man to please. Perhaps the below might be worth a try. Someone was saying good things about a different value of the same series. They are being billed as audio grad"The absolute very BEST electrolytic capacitors are made by Vishay BC components. They were used to be made by Philips. They are aluminum electrolytic caps. They are covered in a blue plastic film and have axial leads. You can buy them at www.newark.com Again, the very best electrolytic caps I've ever used. In solid state amplifiers, power supply bypassing is a must! To protect against oscillation, etc. For example, if it's a mosfet output stage amplifier, the bypass caps need to be located as close to the mosfets as possible. I usually do it like this: 4700uF(electrolytic) + 47uF(electrolytic) + 1uF(film) + 0.1uF(film) This works for me! But it will vary from case to case.
Paul Hilgeman -"
Denied facts are still facts.
Edits: 10/04/21
Your a tough man to please
So my wife keeps telling me lol
I know Vishay components are good, I'm going with these. Probably better than the JCCON I saw everywhere.
Your help was greatly appreciated!
Joris
Very nice Rega!
Not sure if this will help but I found a link on another forum regarding your unit.
There are several pages and as you read through the capacitor values are mentioned. Later on it states the values on the schematic are incorrect. Oddly the values again change. I guess what I'm wondering is if you actually had a chance to read the values on the caps. Perhaps they might be easier to find.
Also a great bunch of people over there that may be able to help.
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Thanks again for The link Jonesy! I'm reading the thread right now.
Yes, all values were read on the actual parts, and dimensions measured on them with a caliper.
You do not want lower ripple current rated audio grade capacitors in the power supply.
6060, do you consider 2200ma ripple current too low as is the case for the KW and if so might you recommend the Panasonic FC with a RC of over 1 amp? There is at least one person out there that has respect for the FC.
Denied facts are still facts.
My previous comment about the FC being high ripple current may or may not be correct or correct in relationship to the Nichicon FW as there are different specs for ripple current at different frequencies and I don't under stand the issue. There are reviews out there, I just posted one.
Denied facts are still facts.
there are different specs for ripple current at different frequencies
For "classic" power supply filter duty, the frequency is 120 Hz, output from a full-wave bridge rectifier at 60 Hz mains or 100 Hz for countries having 50 Hz mains. Perhaps they state different frequencies for use in switch-mode supplies, which operate at high frequencies past the audio range.
Of course a coupling cap is a different matter as it must pass all audio frequencies, but then ripple current makes no sense in that situation.
I did not recommend a capacitor ripple current. I usually buy the highest I can find at reasonable cost and size.
... Nichicon KW. Here is one review
beauty_divine is offline beauty_divine Bulgaria
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
I decided that I must share my final conclusions after the very first disappointing impressions from my new KW series from Nichicon.
Briefly - it took at least 2 weeks (!) of constant working to start giving me the sound quality that I paid for. Even now they go on improving their exceptionally nice sound performance. And now KW are really far from FW as to sound quality. The very first words that came into my head after listening to them again were: they play with exceptional ease. Voices and acoustic instruments are reproduced with natural ease and lightness like a breath of a child. KW present a nice merit - very high detail without being annoying.
And the main conclusion I made for myself from this is: the higher the sound quality of the parts the longer the time the parts take to settle to its best performance.
Denied facts are still facts.
there's a shortage of many things now including tempers and IQ.
I've ordered from him before and he also has new old stock, which in many cases is superior to newer.
there's a shortage of many things now including tempers and IQ.
LMAO! I would tend to agree :-)
Thanks for your reply, sadly Percy doesn't have it.
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: