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152.11.92.62
I am wondering if anyone knows of any "audiophile" grade circuit breakers that can be used in the US. It seems Europe and Asia have many to choose from, but I can't find any for use in North America. See for example:
http://www.gigawatt.eu/produkt/circuit-breaker-gigawatt-g-16a-2p/
Thanks for any info,
Chris
Follow Ups:
If you can read German, this is an article about the audiophile circuit breakers and fuses that audio geeks can install. I had a pair of these installed for my listening room. Too bad we don't have something like this in the U.S.
Thanks! This is exactly what I was thinking. It is too bad there is nothing like this in the US :-(
I know. When we returned from Europe, I looked all over the web for something like what what we had in our house overseas. The electrical code is different, but, I don't know why it is not possible to develop a similar circuit breaker like those in Germany.
What is an "audiophile grade" circuit breaker supposed to accomplish? The breaker provides an electrical connection up to a certain amperage limit. Above that limit it should, if it is working properly, break the connection and pass no more electricity. So what does an "audiophile" breaker do that a standard breaker doesn't? And why would putting a circuit breaker with a higher amperage rating than the circuit is designed for improve the sound from my stereo? I am trying to wrap my head around what the actual physics behind the claims are.
Those are questions you will need to answer for yourself. Sometimes, I try not to dabble to much behind the science or technology behind such things. If you can understand German, you can read what the reviewers and manufacturer are saying about their product. Also, in Germany, this is the way...-the audiophile community over their have been doing this for many years. If I were you, I would not fret about such things because it makes you only question the why, which is causing some consternation with your beliefs and own knowledge.
Too much fretting can cause anxiety and stress.
Mr Audioquest
You encourage people to do things not in their best interest with no regard to consequence.
There are those who would incite insurrection and others that abide by law and order. Choose carefully how you want to promote and word this. Also this is not Germany which I'm sure has it's own standards and norms for safety despite what you proselytize.
It sucks to get old. It really sucks to get old and bitter.
Edits: 05/27/21
Dear Mr. Uncle Mike,
Is this a joke? I am not sure how you have misconstrued and have taken my response out of context. Bottom line up front (BLUF): I did not suggest, nor do I condone anything that would violate codes. It is extremely easy to comprehend that what I had stated with regards to Germany, is exactly what I meant, it was done in Germany and within code for their country. I did not assert or posit that we could do that here...in fact, read carefully,,, "I stated, that I wonder why it is not done here". Easy to comprehend...I also do not understand how you could deliberately intertwine a remark about insurrections and law and order as to add nonsense effect to your response. I don't get the point you are trying to make. I really don't. Go to the beginning of the discussion and properly ascertain what the OP was asking and you will see my cordial response.
Have you lived in Germany? Do you have experiences with German electrical codes or electricians? I do, therefore, I merely made a comparison and contrast statement with regards to the difference between U.S. and Germany in the use of circuit breakers...It is obvious I know we are talking about the U.S., because I would not have made the comparison.
Ciao,
Audioquest4life
UM does things like this once in a while. Your posts speak clearly here, thx.
Why is this post so popular? Are most of you 'plug & play' audiophiles? The post one down highly increasing amp or receiver performance using Hexfred diodes gets little press- go figure.
Edits: 05/31/21
I have used the Audiophile Klangmodul in Germany in our house. This was a great breaker for audio use. It made a positive difference. Also, you can swap out fuses between good, silver, or rhodium easily. They are called sicherung in Germany, the fuse modules for the circuit breaker. I have not seen any equivalents in the U.S.Although, Environment Potentials make an EP-2050 sold by VHAudio.com. This device is a waveform and line filter which attaches to the electrical panel. It reduces RFI. It is not the same as the fuse breaker you are looking for, but, it is an alternative to clean noiseless power which would provide a nice and quiet background during music playback.
The EP-2050 is the BEST solution I've found to help protect your audio equipment, as well as isolate your system from other AC line noise-generators inside your home - where MOST of the AC line noise is generated. Unlike other products on the market that shunt energy to the neutral or ground, the EP-2050 uses patented technology to dissipate much of this energy as HEAT, and operates in a parallel with your AC line, resulting in unrestricted, cleaner juice. There is no getting around using an MOV for the big whomps of juice, but MOV's degrade over time. What's special about the EP-2050 is the MOV stays behind 'the curtain', as the pedestrian nasties get zapped and converted to heat by EP's patented technology. Installs at your breaker panel, by a qualified electrician, in a little over an hour. Now available in BOTH 117V (U.S.) as well as 240V (International) versions!
The Environmental Potentials EP-2750 Ground filter is inserted in series between your circuit's safety ground, and the ground bus on your breaker panel. The EP-2750 provides further isolation of your dedicated stereo or HT circuits from the rest of your home, and may be used with any worldwide voltage, in a residential application.
Here is an example of a typical installation of these devices in one obsessed audiophile's
Edits: 05/25/21
Two things: 1) How good will your system sound to you if you die in a house fire. UL all the way installed by a qualified electrician. 2) The web page you linked says their breakers should only be "used together with a main short-circuit protective device (SCPD) in front of it" (another breaker or fuse) and only to feed their power conditioners. Again, UL all the way installed by a qualified electrician.
Ciao,
"Starting in the middle of a musical sentence and moving in both directions at once." - John Coltrane.
Cpwill
To be clear, I agree with your post.
A lot of people say they are "going off on a tangent" when what they really mean to say is that they are "goin' orthogonal"! Apologies in advance, I am a geek. This is a tangent.
My only point here is to say that most electrical codes do not allow anyone to install balanced AC power in their home. In spite of that, I did so. I am thrilled with the results and couldn't care less about electrical codes in this regard. I definitely managed the associated risks so if you do not understand the risks, stay away from modifying AC power systems.
Mike
Check on line with the Cable company.They have some better made and higher quality circuit breakers one their website. No BS.
Thanks so much! Do you happen to have a link for the website? I can't find breakers on Cable Company website.
Chris
Call Peter at the Cable company.I can't find it either.
Can you post a link? Might help the interested parties on this thread. Best Regards
Text taken from Galen Carol Audio - ELECTRICAL DELIVERY SYSTEMS OVERVIEW
https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/electrical-delivery-systems-overview/
-snip-
Electrical panel
Suggestion for an older electrical panel:
Hire an electrician to tighten all the connections in the electrical panel. The subtle earth vibrations can, over time, cause the electrical connections to become loose. A loose connection can cause power line noise and decrease DTCD. Replace the circuit breakers that provide power to the home entertainment system. These can develop carbon deposits due to arcing when the circuit is tripped.
Suggestions for a new electrical panel installation:
Virtually all home circuit breakers are thermal breakers. There is another class of breaker called hydraulic electromagnetic breakers. They are very expensive and can only be used in certain types of electrical panels. Coordinate with your electrician and electrical supplier to attempt to obtain this type of panel and breaker. You only need to use the electromagnetic breakers on the circuits that power the home entertainment system. Common thermal breakers can be used for the other power circuits.
Over-rate the power circuit. Install 20 Amp circuit breakers instead of the commonly used 15 Amp breakers. Even if your system does not require more than 15 Amps of current, the dynamic current headroom is valuable to system performance, especially when the home entertainment system has high power amplifiers.
There are two phases of power in a typical home power system. When a home is built, the electrician will divide the individual circuit breakers so to create an electrically balanced load between the two phases. It is preferable that the home entertainment system is powered from the phase that has the least noisy components on it. Avoid fluorescent lighting, microwaves, refrigerators and other appliances that cycle on and off.
Ensure that all electrical connections are tight and secure. Ask the electrician to come back in a few days to retighten all the connections. Copper wire is soft and pliable which will cause the screws to loosen up.
-snip-
See link:
If your just replacing the panel and not the wires you can't just "Install 20 Amp circuit breakers instead of the commonly used 15 Amp breakers."
That would be very unsafe.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Thanks so much, Duster! You're always amazingly helpful and it is much appreciated
Hmmmmm ... audiophile circuit breakers ... how about audiophile drywall ...
or audiophile carpet (is wool better than synthetic fibre?) ... or
audiophile window coverings and/or window blinds ... there's just no end
to this number of things that could be called/made "audiophile", it seems.
Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
The notion of an audiophile-quality device is a valid term to determine the intrinsic sonic value, the performance benefits of a particular device or method that is deemed superior to what is considered a more ordinary device/method, most often products that are inferior in a manner that may pass signal fine or otherwise fulfill the electrical requirements of a circuit, but tends to sound less satisfactory vs. a superior product/method to the more sophisticated listening skills of a typical audiophile. There are plenty of products that are not intended for the audiophile marketplace that can be deemed audiophile-quality. What makes this term possible is often the consensus of many listener's reports, or just one man's finding, which is what audiophilia is all about.
You should be a speech-writer for a politician. :)
In most cases, "audiophile quality" is simply an off-the-shelf part with its identity concealed and then marked up multi-thousand percent.
Dave.
You're dusting Duster.... Wait for it!.....
It sucks to get old. It really sucks to get old and bitter.
In most cases? You are seriously misinformed due to a lack of participation in the hobby craft that Tweakers'Asylum is intended for. Posters in this specialized forum don't deserve to be hassled by those who simply wish to denigrate their interests. In most cases, you serve no purpose other than as the resident troll, with a few good points now and then. What a pity.
DUSTED!
It sucks to get old. It really sucks to get old and bitter.
Now and then?? :) I'm making progress!
Dave.
Kind of an unhelpful response on a forum that is supposed to be for tweaks...
It's a curt but meaningful reply.
"Audiophile quality" is a meaningless expression that may or may not have any relation to 'actual' quality.
If you premise a query using terms like that, prepare to get responses that are all over the place. :)
Dave.
No such item as an audiophile circuit breaker. A circuit breaker is a circuit breaker. In fact, an after market circuit breaker does not meet any US electrical codes.
Edits: 05/20/21 05/20/21
A circuit breaker is a circuit breaker????
Any good electrician will tell you that is nonsense.
In fact, I'm currently updating the load-center in my house specifically to support more contemporary breakers for current code and to alleviate safety concerns.
Dave.
As a former electrician, please think about this.
A circuit breaker is a UL approved device. What that means is if anything, and I mean ANYTHING happens to your home or related property, your insurance company is going to hold you solely responsible. That will includes all financial and personal (being personally sued) responsibilities. As well as even being criminally responsible for property damage and any bodily harm (death) sustained to anyone else.
You better think hard on this before going forward. That could turn out to be a life changing audiophile grade breaker.
you should see what's posted on Cables airtime!
the premise: hard wire your gear to a circuit branch no GFI required
good gawd! if brains were dynamite there's some wet firecrackers out there
best regards,
It's all fun and part of the hobby if people what to explore more esoteric tangents.But when people start rewiring breaker boxes, house wiring and installing non UL devices, that's where the hobby ends and bad judgement begins. Now we're talking about property damage, insurance issues, possible litigation and even possible bodily injury.
I'm not exaggerating. The five years I spent as an electrician I worked three home repairs that resulted in deaths. One child from faulty pool rewire, one adult laborer from outdoor under ground wire and one child from a faulty home installed heater wiring.
Addendum: Wow! I can't even explain how I felt after reading that post????
BTW the adult laborer's family did sue
Three house fires and one business fire from home repairs.
A little warning to those of you living in houses that were built before 1975. Aluminum wiring was used in many of them. It's use was quickly outlawed because of it's high fire potential from stress breaks and over heating even at it's intended amperage rating. You may not see it because it was used extensively as "feeder" lines in attics, crawl spaces and walls.
Edits: 06/02/21
I just hope the crew over there reads your post!
a few decades ago I accompanied an electrician friend of mine to a friend of his sister's [very old] house where they were having problems, the lights in their 'upstairs' didn't work ... we went up there to trace the fault and found it [really fast!] in a partially 'improved' attic space where they had set up a dormer without actually doing one if you know what I mean
the wiring up there was 'free air' on ceramic stand offs, that led into a 'gerry rigged' improvised closet at one end built from lap board including the door ... that's where the burnt through wire was that failed and it's a damn good thing that it did!
opening the door the wires ran in very close parallel at the top where the roof peaked ... the wires ran close enough together that the homeowner thought they had an easy peasy clothes hangar there ... we found a little row of scorched wire coat hangars and garments dangling from the remaining wire, with a few hangars and crispy shirts laying on the floor in a little pile
we just looked at each in amazement that there wasn't a fire up there, and he asked them 'weren't you blowing fuses?' ... of course they were but just kept changing them for a bit ... up until the wire burnt through
in that location, up and away, out of sight out of mind in that super dried out attic space any fire would have had an excellent start before even being noticed and quickly involved the whole damn house
man, were they ever lucky ... it's still scary to even think about
you never forget seeing those type things
best regards,
I was actually laughing when I read the part about the hangers. Thanks!
And don't lick the black wire!
I suspect you replied to the wrong post.
But yes, your points are fine, and good advice for anyone considering this sort of "tweak."
Dave.
Nonsense. All new circuit breakers are tested the same by companies outside of the circuit breaker manufacture and meet current USA codes including UL testing.
BTW- I am a 'good' electrician.
Edits: 05/20/21
The electrician doing my Federal/Stab-lock panel replacement would disagree with you.
He's a terrific (obviously better than you) electrician, who just happens to be my cousin. 'Been at it for many years.
Dave.
Dave, you have opinions of my lack of electrical expertise, yet know zero about me and who I am. I managed & built power generation plants for Detroit Edison.Although not my first pack, Federal Pacific circuit breakers are approved by UL.
Edits: 05/20/21 05/20/21 05/20/21
Silly strawman arguments. I suggest to do a little research on the Stab-lock breakers and you will understand the context of my comments.
Regardless, you know zero about my electrician or who he is. Nor what his background is. Hello! Nor what my electrical background is. Hello again!
I actually don't 'need' an electrician. I could do the work satisfactorily myself, (albeit slower), but I am not certified.
Get your shit together if you're going to post further.
Dave.
Your electrician built power generation plants? I think not, but surely adequate for home electrical. He would be clueless to certify a 250KV transformer among dozens of other disciplines.Home type circuit breakers are either clip-on or stab lock. Buy a SQ D commercial panel with screw connecters if you have an issue.
Old Federal Pacific circuits breaks were sold without UL certification. New are certified, but again not my first pick. There is no such thing as a 100% reliable circuit breaker. Fuses are 100% reliable with no known failures not responding to an overload.
BTW- Dave, I do have my act together no matter what rubbish you post! Good by.
Edits: 05/20/21 05/20/21
Ah, so a breaker is not a breaker now? It seems you did a little googling, finally. Progress.
Fuses, power generation plants, 250kV transformers. Yet more strawman deflections, none of which have anything to do with the topic at hand, nor my statements.
But I'm the one posting "rubbish?" Classic! :)
Dave.
Another rubbish play on words. 'A circuit breaker is not a circuit breaker'- stupid. I am more technical & have more engineering skills than the average electrician, but I should not post it when you are stating I am an idiot? Per Dave it requires no skills above the average electrician to build and start up a power generation plant. Your something else..........
Edits: 05/20/21 05/20/21 05/20/21
BTW- all my posts referred to new, not old circuit breakers. All new circuit breakers are UL tested. Or, you have reservations with UL testing Dave. Ridiculous.
Now I have reservations regarding UL testing??? :)
All I said was all circuit breakers are not created equal. A general statement that is clearly correct. (Even the resident tweaker Duster wouldn't disagree with that.)
You were the one who started assuming and qualifying regarding new/old.
But I understand your shtick now. :)
Your initial post should have been a reply to the OP and not my post, since I don't think we disagree there is no such thing as "audiophile quality" circuit breakers.
Also, I suggest to quit editing your posts and just own them.
Dave.
Never qualified old. Only reference is to new circuit breakers.
Bummer; that's what I figured. Thanks for clarifying
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