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Some folks believe that cables should not rest on the floor - the floor
apparently can introduce bad stuff into your cables somehow. So to help
ward off this bad stuff, someone(s) devised cable lifters. Here are two
examples:
1. Nordost Sort Life cable lifters (at $599 per pair at Upscale Audio).
2. Cable Tower V2, from Dedicated Audio, $99 for 6.
I am very curious about 2 things:
(1) What bad stuff is the floor going to introduce into your cables,
except perhaps for some static electricity somehow?
(2) How is the aluminum and titanium alloy of the Nordost superior
enough to the plastic of the Cable Tower V2 to justify the $500 price
differential?
Maybe the principle function of both these products is to lighten the
wallet of the average audiophool, er, excuse me, audiophile.
And in any case, wouldn't some heavy cardboard serve quite adequately
to get the cables off the floor?
Follow Ups:
It's all nonsense. The jacket of any cable is non-conductive, a dialectic. Static voltage impulses are not going to pass through it and effect the signal on the wire inside, especially if it's a shielded interconnect. The shield itself would carry any static to ground. In speaker cables the signals are so high as to have static be so marginalized to be virtually non-existent.Additionally, static fields of this type cannot produce any magnetic field with sufficient intensity over any time domain since the fields collapse literally instantly, so the theory about magnetic field effects is moot or simple bluster.
If a cable is effected by static, it's a badly designed cable. Period. Propaganda to get you to buy more stuff.
I have spoken.
Edits: 06/07/20 06/07/20 06/07/20
Well jr, you have spoken, but have you listened? Horse blankets I say, horse blankets.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Alfred E. Neuman
The Taymor Fingertip Towel Rings are a good idea to simply get the cables off the floor for cleaning.
I've been using glass blocks to take the strain off the connection points and to raise cables off the floor. You can get them in various sizes and designs. Whether they provide any sonic positive or negative, I haven't a clue. But they are sized well to support cables & look rather good doing it...
See:
Why elevating cables off the floor may have an effect.
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/cables/messages/60272.html
I have personally heard improvements with some very basic spacers made from highly aerated foam blocks, or from substantial cardboard tubes with foam damping plugs at the bottom end of the tube, the portion on the floor. A notch cut out of the top portion to hold the cable.
Here, tubes used for rolling up artwork or something larger and more substantial than a toilet paper tube would be preferred.
Jon Risch
I'm having a hard time squaring these two statements,
"Anything that distorts either the e-field or the magnetic field of the cable as it carries an audio signal will be reflected in a distortion of the signal itself, one can not be affected without that effect being shown in the other."
"Even though the cable might have some magnetic field cancellation (and the more esoteric geometries are much better at this than zip cords), there is still some radiated magnetic field from the cable."
If the first statement is true then wouldn't you want a cable with no field cancellation?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
The field cancellation that two opposite polarity signals can accomplish with respect to each other is a linear process, one that does not engender any significant distortion.
The field alterations caused by external materials distortion of the field is usually a non-linear alteration, and one not counterbalanced by the exact opposite polarity field as in the case of the self-inductance partially cancelling due to two nearby conductors.
Jon Risch
,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
I use ESD foam similar to that found in this link. Cut the foam in pieces 2 'cones' by 2 'cones', cable or wire lies between the cones so it doesn't slide off. The material was free as it was used in packaging from work.
https://www.matedex.be/en/products/prod-2226/hkm-coated-product-esd-foam-for-cvs-tvs.html
although i don't use them, i will opine that they should be non-metallic, visually pleasing, and VERY affordable. i have heard some knowledgeable opinions, some from notable and respectable audio designer/philes that are pro cable lifters with feasible scientific explanations.
enough from me.
...regards...tr
I can't believe that Nordost product actually exists at that ridiculous price point. And what good is a set of 2 unless your cable run is 3'or 4'? Many set ups would require at least 8.( $2400 :( ) There's a lot of great speaker or component options at that price point that might actually have a positive impact. Dozens of DIY options that cost pennies to fab up if one is curious. I have wood cable risers in one of my systems. To be honest, I've never been able to determine if they really do anything essential.
In that if it is expensive it can't be any good....
Plenty of people have cited evidence of taking a few sets of 3 chopsticks bound together with rubber-bands and supporting/lifting their speaker cables that way.....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Yes, old news. I did the chopstix/rubber band cable riser trick a few years back. Didn't hear any difference then either. I'm not saying others can't hear a difference, but I can't....sorry. I have no beef with overpriced audiophile gear. It's up to the individual to decide for themselves as to what falls in overpriced category. If you like what the Nordost cable risers do, be my guest. Buy 3 or 4 sets.
"I have no beef with over-priced audio gear."
overpriced is "your" opinion, and label.. that is unique to you.
"if you like what the Nordost cable risers do."
Not me, - I don't have 'em. But I'm sure that someone does. And, - no one knows what they do for ANY system, - until they are tried in that system....
Fortunately, - audiophiles are smart, and can be trusted to use them in locations where they "could" make a difference. (I know that my cable elevators made enough of a difference to justify their very cheap cost).
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Maybe I have not had a cable lifter epiphany because the cheap solutions I have tried do not raise the cables high enough away from the floor. Have you ever read anything to suggest how high the cables should run vs the floor level?
Sorry for the late response, - i limit my time here at AA these days with the homogenization + intolerance of this site.
I never tried the Mapleshade 1ft long, (what looked like), pick up sticks. But I did have some curiosity about them verses what I have.
I bought my ceramic, "elephant feet" on audiogon years ago for next to nothing, - so I said "hey, WTF" They seem to make a difference, but, -it's not huge. Plus they are enough to keep my cats from messing with my speaker cables. They are only about 5 inches above the ground.
All wiring in my system is Cardas based on my speaker manufacturer's recommendation.So I can't tell you how much "leakage field" is present in Cardas compared to say the flat Nordost Valhalla, - or even some of the "almost" unshielded stuff made by Mapleshade. The Mapleshade take the cables more than a foot off the flooring. (Maybe it's due to the fact that these cables use an "air-dialectic" and would be larger, - and therefore higher and away from the floor and other items....
So that is my (wild or not) speculation.
I agree with the other posters, (the great Barry Diamonte), is to go with FREE first, - and see if you hear a change, - then spend money on something "better" if they do prove to be effective.
As far as above, - as a re-inforcement from my perspective only. I've tried 4 different versions of DIY rollerblocks and precisely ZERO performed as well as the ones made by Symposium. However, - most of the 4 that I've tried I still have in play somewhere in the system, as they are more effective than nothing at all.
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Thx for your response.
nt
I have Tara Labs 0.3 Loudspeaker Cables, Zero Evolution XLR Interconnects and Analysis Plus Bi-Wire Black Mesh Oval 9 loudpeaker Cables all threaded through Taymor Fingertip Towel Rings.
They were only $8.00 each at Tuesday Mornings. I have seen them in different colors including chrome and black. The color I chose matches the Tara outer jackets. They are very stable with a weighted non-slip base. The thick and stiff Tara cables are divided through the rings left and right, positive and negative runs. The weight of the cables also helps to keep the rings from tipping over.
I did this for ease of cleaning not sound. The floor is porcelain tile over concrete. It is much easier and faster to clean the floor not having to raise a bunch of cables off the floor. They also stablize the cables keeping them from twisting or pulling from their connections.
A note to all you comedians, the tags have since been removed after I was satisfied the rings worked.
A friend in the New Jersey club made lifters that were simply blocks of foam big enough to support any cables. They of course lifted wires but also had some vibration damping. And he sold them for a couple of bucks each(it's been a while so I don't recall the exact amount). It should be easy to do something similar cheaply and if you don't hear a difference you didn't lose much.
I believe in significant microphonic affects and the foam should improve things.
where's my dead horse emoji?
There should be nothing at all.
**************************
Running "RPi Network Bridge with Open Source Non Obsolescent Software"
I hang my speaker cables (lamp cord) from the ceiling with specially treated (spray painted) string from the Dollar Store. The string is attached to the ceiling with faux brass tacks coated with some sort of silver toothpaste an audio snake oil salesman gave me to sample too many years ago. It tastes like sheet, but my tacks shined, for a while.It all really looks like sheet, but it sounds the same, and I don't have ugly speaker cables running across the floor.
But in general, the cheaper the better and the fewer the better. If you don't have carpet, you probably don't have a problem.
For an idea here's a lifter I made from from some scrap cherry wood. To the side there are silicone glued porcelain insulators supporting ac lines.
Since my speaker wires go under the floor to the other side of the room, it would be pointless to use cable risers. I did try Shunyata's Dark Field Elevators in my secondary system for a week, heard no difference and promptly sent them back to MD. I haven't missed them.
I have Shunyata Dark Field V2 and I tried coffe cup, complete suspend my cable and over shunyata is far better.
Sometimes the cable is not charged at all... on darkfield or not it's same but must of time, it's quite apparent.
Well, at the link.
Al Sekela was a long time contributor at AA, an experienced
and open minded, articulate audiophile, and a practical man
that used cable lifters.
Read the attached link, ESPECIALLY #29 and bear in mind this
is the golden age of the cardboard TP tube.
I don't use lifters, don't need them.
As far as extreme price variances in the audiophile world, well,
everyone makes a better widget... what's it worth to you?
I once tried this with paper cups..... Can't say that I heard a difference......
I think the changes are mostly from the speaker vibrations being transferred more readily to the amplifiers/components via the speaker cables..... In some cases, it will be perceived as an improvement.....
I did not buy cable lifters but just experimented using a number of glass ramekins from my kitchen. I left them in place for a few weeks but I wasn't too sure that they did anything at all until I removed them.
I was pleased to remove them as they were not exactly the most eye pleasing arrangement. After a day or so I realised that my system just didn't sound as good as before especially in the area of its ability to throw a convincing 3D soundstage and there was a diminution of small dynamics making the music a bit flat or less exciting too. So back they went to be replaced later by some Cardas myrtle woodblocks with a large "V" groove cut to hold the cable, not because they "sounded" better but they just looked better. And they were not expensive.
There are three hypotheses that I am aware that have been advanced to explain the effect:
1. Electrostatic ( especially I guess where carpets with a high artificial fibre content are concerned).
2.As the electric field extends beyond the conductor that having air rather than carpet next to the cable is preferable.
3. That the floor (like walls) is at an acoustic pressure zone and moving the cable away from this provides benefits (I note that some proprietary cable lifters suspend the cable relatively high above the floor though whether or not for this purpose I do not know).
So why not experiment with some thick cardboard? I have seen some D.I.Y lifters made from the cardboard tube from the centre of toilet tissue rolls.
The effect is relatively subtle and presumably inaudible with a system that cannot throw a convincing soundstage in the first place, at least in relation to my my experience.
which is better to elevate speaker cables or interconnects?
I have some of both on carpeting on a basement slab.
Thanks for your question as it brings something to my attention that I really should have mentioned.
I do not use speaker cables! The wires that are elevated in my system are 5m long balanced interconnects from my pre-amp to my active speakers (where the power amps are built into the speaker cabinets). As the rest of my equipment is on a 5 level rack no other interconnects touch the carpet except for a couple of wordclock cables as the system clock is sited on the bottom level of the rack. However space there is too limited to consider any form of elevation (though whether or not that would have any audible effect on a cable that just caries a regular pulse is open to question). Some power cables from the wall outlets also touch the carpet behind the rack.
"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams
I would guess that your having active speakers you are not concerned with micro-phonics within the speaker cabinets? At one time there was a bit of concern with some makers, maybe even today with caps and such.
I too have long interconnects and will give it a shot to elevate the cables and hear what happens. Thanks!
*Freudian slumber, plenty of sound
Yes, I am aware of the concern. However the amps are not housed within the part of the speaker cabinet that houses the drivers but in its own compartment. However I appreciate that this does not remove the consideration in its entirety.The reason that the speaker was designed in this way is that the brief for its original conception from , I think, the Danish national broadcaster was for a 50 litre enclosure including all electronics so that it was easily transportable from studio to studio.
It is now considered a classic design with around 40+ years of production and hundreds of users in in both professional and amateur settings. I suspect that if there is a vibration problem of any magnitude it would be common knowledge by now. However its larger siblings of 150 or 300 litre capacity do indeed have an external electronic crossover and tri-amplifier linked to the speaker cabinet via a complex umbilical cord, I guess itself yet another cause for possible concern.
"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams
Edits: 05/08/20
I too have heard the explanation (your #2) that being in contact with carpet in particular affects the dielectric properties of the cable.
Not saying I buy any of these explanations, although the dielectric one seems plausible to me.
The music my system plays sounds so good I don't bother with tweaks of this sort. I do however still use two VPI magic bloks.
Vpi magic brick
There are plenty of cheaper alternatives - e.g. https://www.circlecsupply.com/dare-small-porcelain-insulator-with-lag-bolt-price-per-each.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9rag45-i6QIViZWzCh29Tg17EAQYAyABEgJIZvD_BwE or https://www.mayerelectric.com/17616/Category/Porcelain-Insulators
This is really a Tweaks/DIY topic.
It is all about eliminating static electricity on carpeted surfaces. As for me, I use inexpensive porcelain electrical insulators purchased at flea markets and Tractor Supply.
One word: Rebar Chair
Edits: 05/09/20 05/09/20
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