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Hi, as you may know, I have had a difficult time giving out info on Bybee Purifiers, partially because Jack Bybee is so close lipped about them, but also because I get so much negative criticism for just talking about them.
For the record, I have known Jack Bybee for about 15 years, and have sometimes even helped him with design problems, with problems EXTERNAL to the Bybee Purifiers, themselves, that even I don't know much about.
However, I DID find them to work, even before I knew Jack Bybee, and I have learned a good deal, since then. I do not expect the Bybee Purifiers to expand in distribution at any time, in future, because Jack cannot release the technology to others, no matter what the offer. This is beyond Jack, and his personal wishes, but the wishes of the original developers of the core devices.
As Jack Bybee is now 81 years old, and makes the final form of the devices himself and a few sub contractors, more production is impossible. Therefore, if you are not interested in Bybee Purifiers, don't worry, Jack doesn't care, and would rather make them for the people who appreciate them, and there are many.
Edits: 01/19/11Follow Ups:
These things do substantially change the sound of my system, it is just a bit hard to say whether it sounds better or worse with the purifier in the chain. I like the increased clarity and tighter bass, but, the tradeoff is a drier, and less relaxed sound.
In a friend's system, the result of using the purifier (Golden Goddess) was much less equivocal-- his system sounded substantially better.
This device is NOT a ripoff that does nothing, but, like any device that alters the sound, it is a matter of system tuning so the result is system dependent as well as a matter of personal preference.
Well said, Larry I. I would tend to agree with you that the effect is real, but can improve, OR upset the sonic balance in an audio system, depending on the individual audio system. This is not the first or only time that I have found such an 'improvement' to change a sound system for the worse, overall.
I hate to step into this thread for a selfish reason
but John can you email me pelliott321@yahoo
I have a Vendetta Research step up device problem I need help on?
So it goes.........
Sailor321, I need a more complete address. Forgive me, if it is obvious why I can't get through, current computer technology is not my forte.
John....you need to add ".com" to his yahoo e-mail address. :--}
To continue with the Bybee Purifier.
My experience with the Bybee Purifier started with putting it into AC power lines. I was able to hear a difference with my STAX Lambda headphone system, Vendetta Research phono stage and selected high quality vinyl records. I heard the difference before I had any contact with Jack Bybee, the man. I think this is important, because I FIRST tried to measure differences in the Bybee devices, and even though I had a fairly well equipped audio lab, I could not measure anything but a resistance, about 0.3 ohm at the time. I was going to 'pan' the device as a phony, BUT I had to listen to it first, just to make sure.
Yes, I heard the difference, and it was a slight 'clean up' of the overall sound quality. It was easy, at the time, just to take it in or out, without changing much, so I was pretty sure of what I heard.
Later, I tried it in SERIES with the audio signal, itself. Here, I heard greater differences, but it was controversial. Did I REALLY like the change? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. (more later)
(not the blowtorch)
was able to A/B with a # of other audiophiles to determine if they liked signal better going thru gold bybees (on one input of the preamp)
answer was uniformly yes. bybees were a winner there.
(could be due to coloration any gold imparts on signal, but i kinda suspect its more than that).
i will say sometimes i do not like them on AC...soften things up too much.
to note that the 18 K gold wire alloyed with silver that Jack uses is claimed to have the best crystalline structure to transfer electrons. In the tables for electromotive force, gold also has one of the highest, significantly higher at 1.4 than copper at .345.
The ceramic tube that JC refers to is also interesting. In disassembling a purifier, placing an ohmmeter on the tube pretty much reads open. However, if you scratch the probes across the surface ends you get a reading. As a conductor, it must be very directional.
Stu
I got 15 ohms on a ceramic device, without resistor, AND I did not scratch anything.
The heart of the Bybee Purifier is a ceramic tube that is coated on the surface with: ' ... combinations of rare earth metals (zirconium, yttrium, neodymium, praseodymium, and lanthanum oxides) It is this combination of materials that creates a barrier which isolates and absorbs specific electrons.' (From an early brochure). This is the best explanation ever offered, even to me.
Edits: 01/19/11
I wish to point out that Bybee's formula does NOT contain Cerium. This is a FUNDAMENTAL mistake taken by a number of people over the decade, when criticizing Bybee or trying to copy one. This is important because Cerium has some properties that make it unstable. Cerium is used, however, in a superficially similar mixture called 'Misch Metal, in some form used for 'flint' in cigarette lighters.
Edits: 01/19/11
The Bybee purifier 'effect' is a small one, and perhaps easily dismissed in mid fi systems.
There are more DIRECT ways to clean up the AC, and DC audio signal that are more understandable, easier to purchase, and most of the time, do MORE than a single Bybee device.
This is what Jack Bybee has concentrated on over the last few years. He has worked with another engineer, (not me) who has developed patented circuitry that 'cleans' AC and DC power supplies actively, and better than most approaches. I have heard the difference, myself, in an A-B test.
To complete my Bybee essay, I have a letter to my boss, Richard Schram, in front of me, dated April 25, 1995.
This letter also contained several graphs measuring just about anything that can be measured in a Bybee device, including signal/noise improvement (Graph #1).
Other graphs showed phase shift with frequency(#2), impedance magnitude(#4), complex impedance(#5), and a Nyquist plot(#7).
All measurements except for Graph #1 showed virtually nothing more than a resistor, yet it does something measurable (#1), in that it reduces noise. There it is, for better or worse.
Nice to see you here John. You are braver than I trying to convince the troops at DIYAudio. I use the Bybee devices and find them worthwhile. I also agree they are icing on the cake. In other words, they are useful for the listener who is trying to squeeze a bit more detail out of a system that is already refined and being finely tuned.
Not sure everyone would agree wholeheartedly with you; for example Dick Olsher in his 2002 review of the Bybee Purifiers concluded:
ConclusionOnce in a life time there comes along a technology that breaks new ground and is easily worth its weight in gold. Such is the case with the Bybee Quantum Purifier. To put it into perspective, imagine the following scenario. Money is no object and you have the opportunity to purchase $20,000 worth of the finest cable/interconnect. Let me make this perfectly clear: $320 worth of Purifiers will make for a far greater sonic improvement in your system than would all of that cable. In hindsight, cable is a band aid - the Purifier the cure.
Based on my experience with the interconnect purifier, their sonic effect is clearly cumulative with additional devices upstream from the speakers. The magnitude of purity and focus engendered by this device would typically only be the result of a major system upgrade. Before you throw a lot of money at your system, give the Purifiers an audition. Go ahead, give your audio system the Windex treatment. If there ever was a no-brainer recommendation, the Bybee Quantum Purifier is it. I can't imagine listening to my system without them.
See complete review at:
Edits: 01/20/11
I might add that Dick Olsher is probably the only person that Jack Bybee was in any position to confide to EXACTLY how the Bybee Purifier works. This is because he is a physicist, has a security clearance, AND he signed a non-disclosure agreement with Jack Bybee, before Jack told him the whole story. Jack, himself, told me this, years ago.
So, you're saying Olsher wrote the rave review of the Bybee Purifiers in exchange for some top secret black ops information? Yeah, I can see that.
That is 'below the belt' Geoff. Dick was 'qualified' to be told how they work, with permission of the US Government.
Geez, Louise, I was only joking.
Apparently you're not familiar with compartmentalization.
"Apparently you're not familiar with compartmentalization."
You mean this kind?
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
:-)
Better than tinfoil hats. :-)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Methinks you probably need some ruby red slippers.
Good idea! No shoes allowed in mySCIFhouse. No yellow brick road, outside, either.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
;-)
Thanks Geoff, for admitting that you were joking. Most here do not know that we have been phone friends for years, and may have misunderstood your 'joke'. Also, what I meant by 'government permission' only was that Dick Olsher works for the Los Alamos National Lab, doing something as a physicist there, and I suspect, with some confidence, that he has a security clearance. As I do not have a security clearance, my situation is somewhat different, and Jack Bybee can't tell me 'everything'. That's OK with me, as I have a 'big mouth', anyway.
"Thanks Geoff, for admitting that you were joking."
You're welcome, John. :-)
Jack has a most interesting product. While it works in many applications, there are some where it is of minimum use.
For example: It doesn't work following tube rectifiers or a choke based power supply. Those applications are two very important clues as to the nature of its workings. Jack makes no bones about his purifiers being based on superconductor technology. I am certain it is but, I believe, very few of us have stopped to consider that ramification. A superconductor is not necessarily a great voltage conductor but more of a current conductor device.
In the case of the tube rectifiers, B+ voltage is imposed on the cathode, the current source, and the timing of the current and voltage is pretty much simultaneous. Chokes work similarly in smoothing any current/voltage time lag.
Where the Bybee purifiers seem to work best (in my experience), is after transformers, where it is a known fact that the current is lagging behind the voltage by about 90 degrees. The Bybee, I believe, is acting there much like a power factor corrector: the slight resistance retards the voltage while the ceramic element accelerates the current.
The appropriate application of Bybee purifiers lies where ever there are large inductances being induced, creating a phase shift between current and voltage: voice coils, transformers, crossover inductors generally benefit greatly from a purifier placed following them. Indeed placing them on driver leads directly seems to benefit the woofers more than tweeters, but then the inductors always seem larger for woofers than for tweeters (if they have any).
One thing about a device like the Bybee purifiers is that it exposes weaknesses elsewhere in the system. One must be very aware of that fact.
My first application of the purifiers where in a PS Audio regenenerator. Some things got better (midrange detail) but there was an annoying upper register glare. In listening and waiting for the break in to complete, I then remembered I had that same glare when I had changed a few tubes in my preamp (CJ Premier 17), but toned that down with a change of interconnects. Going back to the older IC's and tubes cured that glare. I then started expanding the Bybee application, placing them in my tube preamp B+ supply (solid state PS, and a solid improvement overall), then the power amp B+ supply (QS Monoblocks). I went back and placed them into the PS Audio B+ supply for even further improvement.
Again, it didn't work at all in the heater power supply, and not surprising since the current/voltage lag there has minimal effect on the audio signal. In a CD player, again the B+ voltages need be treated first, even the 15/8 volt power supply which often is used to power the DAC chips and opamps. On a DVD/blu ray player like the Oppo, that installation made the owner proclaim that his DVD's had a picture quality close to his blue ray discs (his words, not mine, as I didn't really do a visual comparison).
Placing them in the signal path had very limited improvement, at least until the B+ supplies were upgraded first. While probably many have tried his add on RCAs, and speaker cable leads, their performance increase pales in contrast to placing the units in the B+ circuit first.
As a corollary to the ground control tweaks, although Jack first recommended the purifiers be placed only the positive leads, I find that it is imperative to place the purifiers on the negative leads also. The placement on the positive tends to skew the tonal balance upwards, placing a purifier on the negative restores the balance in the lower region. Jack now recommends that a purifier be placed on two legs.
Stu
nt
I'm hoping for another chapter to this story.
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