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I could really use some advice here. I am restoring a set of ESS speakers, a part of which are four 2-way satellites. Each satellite has the crossover components as pictured below. After 30 years plus, I figure the caps should be replaced and any other parts that warrant proactive replacement. I can solder just fine and these parts are super easy to access and it seems a simple layout. However, I have virtually no experience in selecting proper parts with respect to brand name, values, etc. I am open to any and all suggestions. I am not opposed to making improvements over the parts originally used if modern parts are more advanced, but I don’t really want to change the overall character of the speakers, so to speak. Since the price of these speakers has been long since “amortized”, I am not opposed to paying good money for top quality parts. I will note the values as printed on the components in the picture and I would be obliged for specific suggestions – brand, type, values etc. for each to use as replacements. THANKS!Right to left
Black Cap: 1068-7308; 12-65 CXR; 200-40AC-B; 200uF-40V AC
Orange Cap: 227P; 3.5 plus/minus 10% - 100CD; 1DF-M3.5
Resistor: 4ohm 10W
Inductor – Propose to simply reuse thisThe wiring is all solid-core of what looks like some silver colored alloy
Follow Ups:
The big cap and coil roll off the low end to the midbass unit, the small cap feeds the tweeter.
The 200µF is a Callins electrolytic, the best available 30+ years ago. It's shot now.The 3.5µF is a mylar, after 30+ years the ESR will probably be high, replace it with a polypropylene.
The new tweeter you are going to buy will probably be a bit louder than the original. You may need to up the resistor value a bit, and lower the cap a bit too.
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3493466.19662&pid=163
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3493466.19662&pid=183
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3493466.19662&pid=266
Tack this in parallel with the 200µF:
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3493466.19662&pid=1197
..cap be in parallel with the 3.3 and not the 200?
No, the $.30 mylar is for the 200uF electrolytic.
No need for sarcasm, really. I didn't ask, but was offered, the cheapest route. :-) That's okay, though, as if this doesn't work out well, I won't be out much if I decide to go with higher grade components later - which might also mean upgrading the drivers - which will mean the speakers will only be the ESS in case only.Let me ask this, then. Would it makes sense to run a "better, smaller" cap in parallel with the 3.3 cap, as well as the 200uF cap, to bolster both, as it were?
...I'd like to send you an e-mail, if I may. I have tested further the original tweets and they are much better than I thought (condition wise) and have four out of my six that work. I actually had a set and a half of this system. As such, I am thinking about NOT replacing them, after all.
"...I'd like to send you an e-mail, if I may."Sure, the AA thing works OK.
"I have tested further the original tweets and they are much better than I thought (condition wise) and have four out of my six that work. I actually had a set and a half of this system. As such, I am thinking about NOT replacing them, after all."
That's good. Just order the 4 ohm Eagle resistor and the other parts will be as listed.
I think I have four of those tweeters in an old pair of EV Interface A that I am keeping for parts.
I used to service ESS, JBL, EV, Yamaha, etc, back in the day when these were new.
...the route I'm thinking to go, which is VERY similar to your suggestion, but differnet brands (source):Here is where I am thinking to go:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-366&scqty=4
In parallel with:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-216&scqty=4
and this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-544&scqty=4
In parallel with:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-202&scqty=4
And, finally, this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=005-4&scqty=4
Whadda ya think?
Film and foil would make a better bypass cap for the tweeter.http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-454&DID=7
Sonicraft and PartsConnexion list 100uf Auricaps. Michael Percy lists large values of Solen caps up to 330uf. North Creek Audio lists 200uf of their Zen caps.Large, good quality caps are available... if you can pay the price!
Greg in Mississippi
The resistor could use some upgrading. A Mills is perfect. The orange cap (orange drop) is a polyester film which is okay and won't wear out. If desired you could move up to the same brand cap but into the 716P or 715P series which is polypropylene.Now the black cap "looks" like it isn't an electrolytic but I can't tell how large it is. A 200uF film cap, even with only a 40 volt rating, would be as big as a damn beer cap and not cheap. So if it is a film cap leave it alone. For cost reasons I think only a bi-polar eletrolytic will do. Black gate is the top of the line here. Despite what I can see clearly marked I'd measure the value if I could as a 200uF cap sounds very big for a speaker crossover.
Russ, thanks you and also thanks for not "talking down" to someone who is not familiar with this stuff. I was also wondering how much one could stray from the values printed on the caps. I was having an "H" of a time finding ANY 200uF 40V caps. I like the idea of improving the quality, since I did that once on a pair of PSB, with guidance, and the results were just awesome - the character of the speakers idn't change, but the clarity was just much better, cleaner.The black cap on the left doesn't look electrolytic to me, looks like it is full of plastic (at least it hasn't metal tops like I am used to seeing). It measures 2 3/8" long and just under an inch in diameter.
Yes, a 200uF film cap in 40 volts is going to be hard to find. You can use a higher voltage. You do need to keep all the uF and resistance values the same or you will alter the crossover points. But you can use higher voltage parts and you can combine parts to get what you need. For example you could use a 180uF electrolytic and bypass with a 20uF film cap.I keep thinking a 200uF cap is an impossible value for a speaker crossover though. Is there anyplace you turn to and get it measured?
Yes, if you are going to bother might as well improve things:)
I agree about the parts. Frankly, I wouldn't change anything. The 200uFd cap is a woofer shunt cap so it's not necessarily that large depending on the crossover frequency.
"The 200uFd cap is a woofer shunt cap so it's not necessarily that large depending on the crossover frequency."Look again, the 200µF is the series cap feeding the midbass driver.
The description is the crossover is from one of four two-way satellites! If it's from a two-way, where's the mid range?
.
I thought we were talking about a two-way. Instead it's a sub/satellite system.
So the 200uF limits the small sats to 100 hertz or so. Now it makes sense.Now what can we advise for a decent cap that won't break the bank? Even a solen in that size is going to be 50 bucks or so.
...THAT is a good question. I would like to upgrade quality to be sure but I priced the Solen 200uF's at $50 each, too. Leaves me to wonder where the point of diminished returns comes such that spending any more is not really worth the dough (as subjective as that would be).
Even the motor runs mentioned, unless you buy surplus, are going to run the cost of the solen. Plus they will take up a lot of room. I do like they way they sound though:)So, it is a solen if budget allows. If not maybe a black gate (didn't price but might be more $). If not then a decent bi-polar electrolytic, like panisonic, bypassed with a film cap. About what I said at first isn't it:) caps have gotten better and yours are old so I think you will hear an improvement.
Now for an entirely different path.....If you have a dedicated amp just for the low bass I can't see why an electronic crossover wouldn't work. You could keep the passive crossover on the tweeter if desired so you wouldn't need another amp. So bi-amp with an active crossover. Upside of this is it is reusable and the 200uF caps probably won't be. The little 30 watt sonic T amps for 30 bucks should have enough balls for the sats/surrounds. Spend a few bucks more for the behringer crossover (around $250) and you get a nice equalizer with auto set features too (might have to buy the $85 mike though). Dang I thing I just sold myself:)
Best I can come up with.
...in oil and generally sound very good. The round cans have a better sound-quality reputation than the ovals, I know not why.I'd then bypass that with an MultiCap RTX ('styrene) cap.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
..that it is hard to see in the picture what goes where. One lead of he larger cap goes to tHE inductor coil, while the other goes to join one lead of the other capacitor and the positive lead of the midrange driver.Points above regarding not changing the crossover points are well taken since this system has a 12" bass reflex driver that factors in.
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