|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
99.226.222.242
Researching killing the cable service and going with an OTA system. Here in Toronto, there are about 26 channels available with only one duplication and one foreign language channel so, while the number is not high seemingly, it actually is about the same number as cable since the basic Rogers has multiples of the same programming (like 10 showing the same sports program).
On the good side of course is I now can get an outdoor FM antenna. I want to get down to channel 2. Most VHF/UHF antennas only start at channel 7 so antennas getting to channel 2 and hence covering the FM band is limited.
Does anyone have any experience with these combo antennas designed to go to channel 2 and FM? Or, shall I just go with an omni directional FM antenna. I will not be using a rotor as the 2 transmitter points are almost in line with each other from my house, the CNN Tower and Buffalo. As for FM, I only listen to a few channels locally but might be intered in getting into the US. Buffalo transmitters at right around 60 miles from the house as the Canadian Goose flies (provided he does nto attack an airplane).
Follow Ups:
Thanks all. I've decided to go with the CM Masterpiece CM5020. The installer had e-mailed that he generally uses the CM4221, CM4228HD, DE4 and DE8; all which the specs say only goes down to channel 7. He said tehy can mod the antenna to get down to 2 but it may compromise the upper channels. I politely explained that when there are antenna that are spec'd down to 2 I see no reason to modding an antenna not designed for my requirements.
He admitted he does not carry the 5020 but can get 1 Saturday from the distributor Saturday but, it will put off the work by a week and increase the cost but not sure as he does not know his cost; no one has ever wanted the model as most look for 7-69 and for FM there is an $80 omni directional that he can add.
He thinks it is overkill but, will do what his customer requests. Imagine a seller arguing with a customer who wants to spend more. He also, mentioned that with the advertised reaching power I should be able to reach Rochester besides Buffalo. I looked it up and think to do so would require a rotor though so not banking on it unless he can position the antenna in a way to cover all 3 locations within the angle of acceptance. It might be possible.
I would skip the FM OMNI, likely you will have a better signal from the TV antenna, as long as the antenna is pointed near the FM stations. For local FM stations, that have a strong signal, probably won't matter where it's pointed.
Brian what part of the city are you in? is this a directional antenna you are installing? you may need the rotor. let me know how it works.
David
The antenna is the Masterpiece CM5020. It has an angle of about 20 degrees. Based in TV Fool map, if I aim the antenna at chl 26 in NY or, just east of it, I'll probably get into Rochester and Buffalo and be slightly off as to the CN tower that may be good as it will reduce the gain and hence reduce to some degree the chance of overload.
One block east of Don Mills, between Finch and Sheppard; just off Van Horne. I'll report on the results.
why bother with the omni?
In any case $80 is a LOT for an omni.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
Some of the stations are in the null of the antenna and hence reception will be zip. I am still trying to decide whether to install the omni fm antenna. I'll probably wait to see what reception I get before doing anything.
Wiki says most US mobs are avoiding them for DTV.
Check out
info@hillsantenna.com.au
and ask them IF they can still sell the CH 0-3 gain elements for their CA16. which they do still sell.
It's a pretty big long-range VHF phased array and is more stable in wind and such IF your stations are horizontally polarised. You could even stack two side by side, and just use one of them for FM. ;-)
You might get lucky but our freq's /Ch are higher than yours are.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
Most of the DTV channels in the US are moving to 14-69 while over the air are standing pat so there are a number of stations still betwen 2-13. Also, dealing with the Canadian system. It would be easier if only trying to get US or only looking to get Canadian.
Not sure if there is any requirement in either country to move stations to 14+. If they did late it will be apain for those stayting with OTA if antennas are designed to catch 14-69. It would then mean 2 antennas if thrying to include the FM band.
Still a 12' foot square rhombic narrowed a bit could do both TV and FM from Buffalo down to CH2 TV.
And, still get your two Toronto local FM, off the CNN tower?
You'd need a splitter unless its HD-TV which MIGHT be FM/TVI proof. Analogue PAL TV certainly wasn't, see previous posts.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
I wouldn't do that, not if you're trying to catch a good signal from Buffalo.
If you're considering buying a separate FM omni antenna then go with a true FM Yagi type. If you need the TV antenna, you might be able to mount them on the same mast. That would take some homework to make sure they didn't interfere with each other. Timbo?
I used to live in Buffalo, and then Rochester. With a good Winegard FM Yagi antenna (the model number escapes me) I could get many Toronto stations clearly. If Buffalo FM stations are important to you, I wouldn't count on a TV antenna, and certainly not an omni-directional FM antenna.
Good luck with it, and please keep us posted.
I'm most concerned with the television channel reception from Buffalo. for FM, I really only listen to a couple and both are located in Toronto as I listen to classical and jazz.
From where I live the CN tower and Buffalo transmitters are alomost literally in-line with each other; about 5-10 degrees and most antennas that meet the distance and channel criteria I've come across seem to cover about 20-30 degress so I do not need an omni directional antenna.
One thread I've read has a writer who lives just north of me and on the same line of site as I am is using a CM4228HD and getting into Buffalo with no problem but, the 4228 only is designed for channel 7 to 69. He did mention it seems good on FM, better than a twin folded dipole he had been using but it picks nothing up when he tried 2-1 and 2-2 so, not a consideration for me.
No, getting rid of the high costs of Rogers is the main reason. We dumped the premium packages and I started looking at the payback period and the actual amount of time I watch television and decide to get rid of cable television altogether. Do the math and in less than 3 years at the average basic cable charge will get you a 1st class antenna system with higher quaility. Rogers only broadcasts 720 while many of the HD channels available to me broadcast 1080.
FM is a bonus. I listen to only 3 FM stations and all are local and I get them with a ribbon dipole in the basement 5 by 5 so going to the outside antenna may expand my FM listeing by a couple of stations but doubt it.
Rhombics are way the best for range, and ROI. TV twin-ribbon doubles their gain for the same size.See the FAQ article here - you might need an in-line signal attenuator for the local stations. You can play with how wide or narrow the acceptance angle is on a simple rhombic, so unless the subtended angle to Buffalo from the CNN tower is more than say 20 degrees, a spread rhombic is probably not needed.
Depends on how GOOD Buffalo's stations are really, whether you should bother with a rhombic.
A Yagi in the loft will last a lot longer than outside. And, weather's not an issue when installing in Winter.
Enjoy!
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
Edits: 06/04/12
Maybe being an American the US recception is very importan to me to get US news, etc. Canadian stations are okay but somewhat limited by comparison as to preferred content.
;-)!
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
Brian,
FM lies in between Chanel 6 and 7 on VHF spectrum.
Most of the yagis that I have looked at over the years will cover from VHF 2 through 13, though refreshing my search confirmed your claim - but I did find the attached - covering 2 - 69...
Happy listening
http://www.channelmaster.com/Masterpiece_Antenna_Series_CM_5020_s/303.htm
If this one does not do it, then none will.
Brian,
Two more comments - to help I hope:
1: the big difference between the rated range for the antennas is more elements - the range is assuming a standard height - and more elements provide more gain so you can pick up a weaker signal -
the alternative is to raise the height of the antenna. I realize that this brings with it more interesting complexities - how high?, how to securely position it THAT high?, and then the isolation /grounding for lightning when it IS That High...
You guys and gals around the lake have a blessing in that your range is increased because there are no hills, buildings or trees on the lake to interfere with the line-o'-sight transmission of FM/VHF... of course that also means that the snow flies a bit deeper .....
2: To the previous post about the Rhombic - if you only had a few stations, you could build custom antennas for the stations/ranges you wanted - that would be more effective than the Yagis -
Having said this - your original post was more concerned with television broadcast, and so I would stick with the yagis.
Good luck, and remember to Ground the Mast,
Happy listening
Which I kinda think these are.
the gain of a Yagi is driven by its boom length.
Pattern can be affected by the number of elements but gain barely if at all.
Apparent value for money is a big factor.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
I had considered the CM3671 and Wineguard HD8200HD. They had a boom length of 173 and 168" and when I mentioned them to several installed each said the same thing; they are too long for a roof top and need a tower to mount. I do have access to a used tower across the street that I think I can buy but each said it would be too costly to pull it, recondition it and then put it up and it requires a permit because to properly install it, it requires a cement pad and hence triggers the permitting requirement. Seemed like too much of a hassle for now. I might do something later if not happy with the current;y planned install. Most of the homes around here had towers when the home was built and there are a number of empty towers still standing. This house had one that had been taken down and partially disassembled and parts missing so wifey in cleaing things up disposed of it.
As they do!
But, I bet she collects shoes or something.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
well, no she's more into tools such as flame throwers to kill weeds, a 6 ' crow bar, recently a sledge hammer and she's been eyeing a huge chain saw. Yes, I do sleep with 1 eye open every night.
We stopped at a used car lot a couple of years ago and I was carrassing a bevy of Jag sedans including some nice XJ-12s. I turned to se if she like them and she was no where to be found. I walked around until I saw her amongst several Humvee H-1 trying to decide which color to pick and how to convince me it was even better than a Volvo. Given my wife's attitude towards other drivers (no, not road rage; just a desire to do some things like running them off the road, a citizen's arrest for running stop lights and sounds, etc.) I finally convinced her the H-1 was not for us as to afford the gas, I'd have to own the gas station.
She still thinks of them fondly, while any Jag turns my head.
Fiat X1/9 1500, the original Toyota MR2, a mint Alfa Sud TI 1.5, OR and LBNL, a 1600 Lancia Fulvia 2C.
If I won a lottery? A mid-engined Lotus 4-seater, and serious NVH treatment.
A really big win? Then it would be a Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta Lusso.
My BIL used to sell Jags here in Canberra. I had a loan of a silver-grey 4.2L fastback E type, with the newer gearbox.
I',m retired and our current drive is a 2003/4 ACV36R Toyota Camry - Sportivo'd but no badges, nor wingm, plus a re-chipped engine! :-)
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
I have this one already on my list. Not sure about distance limitations as I need to reach about 60+ miles to get into Buffalo reliably.
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Brian, I live in SE Mississauga, close to QEW/427. It is a bit of a low spot and even with a Magnum yagi mounted on a 15' mast on top of my second story, Buffalo's WNED can be tough to receive quietly.
If you are further north things improve dramatically as the elevation slowly rises.
In fact, I have been thinking of taking it down and I might be willing to donate it to a worthy cause, such as yours.
Charles.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: