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Hi,I'm interested in adding either a tube preamp or tube integrated to drive Proac Response 1sc speakers. My current amp is a Parasound HCA-1500A.
I'm wondering about the ARC CA50 as an integrated option to replace my solid state separates. On the other hand, I'm also wondering whether a standalone ARC or Conrad Johnson tube preamp might be the better option.
I've read that some prefer 12AX7 tubes or 6DJ8(6922) or 6SN7 tubes over 12AU7 and 12AT7 tubes. The ARC CA50 uses the following:(2 matched pairs) 6550C power output, (2) 6922 driver, (2) 6922 input.
Is the tube used by the equipment something to consider? I'm interested primarily in classical solo piano, small chamber, and small ensemble jazz. Detail is probably what interests me most.
In any case, auditioning the equipment beforehand will likely not be an option.
So, I'm looking for opinions/recommendations on which way to go.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Edits: 03/17/12Follow Ups:
John, I would suggest that you look at Music Reference. While the New RM-200 MK II is above your upper limit, a used RM9 (100Watts/chnl) or RM10 (35 watts/chnl) might do the trick nicely. I am driving a pair of ProAc Response 3s with an RM-9 and very happy - I have heard the same amp drive Response 2 with excellent results. The RM 10 is a smaller amp, but could be bridged to provide 2 70 watt mono-blocks...
I might recommend that you hook the ProAcs up the the 4 ohm taps if using the amps as stereo, and the 8 ohm taps if bridged.
The Music Reference amps have excellent tube life, and the RM-9 can be used with EL-34, 6550, KT-77 or KT-88 tubes - there is a bias adj for each channel.
Happy listening
I'm also considering a tube preamp to match with the Parasound HCA-1500A. The Parasound is a fairly neutral amp and supplies 205 watts per channel.
My short list of manufacturers includes ARC, Conrad Johnson, Cary, Sonic Frontiers, VTL. There are currently some offerings on A'gon and I'm thinking that would give me more flexibility in the future to experiment with stand-alone tube amplifiers.
It's likely that any purchase I make will be without an audition. I'm willing to take some risk in this regard; however, it's easier to justify the purchase by spending a little less (as in the case of a preamp).
Any thought on the preamp approach?
do yourself a favor
If you are willing to build a kit, I would recommend an Audio Note kit very highly. I heard the L4 EL34 kit at an audio show and it is very good, easily the equal of retail amps in the $4K-6K range. The builds are within the reach of a novice kit builder, although I did purchase a couple of practice kits to learn soldering first before I built my first kit.
I would look into the April issue of Stereophile. There is a review of a Cayin SP-10A integtrated amp that looks promising. It is a little bit out of your price range $2195.00 but well worth it. If I hadn't recently purchased a tube amp and pre-amp I would be looking at this one. It is a beautiful looking amp to with a wood case. Very high WAIF factor.
Check it out....
I should have stated that my budget is in the $1500 - $2000 range. I currently live in a condo so the only DIY I could consider would be a complete kit.I have no background in electronics and must confess that I know nothing about the various iterations of tube gear that's often discussed; i.e. DHT SET, PP etc.
For someone with my lack of electronics background, solid state has always been a plug and play option. It seems to me, however, that many tube gear aficionados have at least some basic to advanced knowledge of circuitry.
I must confess that I am fairly overwhelmed by all the various options there appear to be.
I must ask if the theory and implementation of tube gear is fundamentally simple enough such that I could learn the basics on my own? At the very least I might acquire some basic frame of reference against which to assess what's out there.
I guess I'm not really in a position to be committed to any particular approach.
One question that I wonder about: is the fundamental difference in sound between amps due to the difference in tubes? That is to say are the power supplies, transformers, chassis along with any other components merely a vehicle within which to place the tube of choice?
Are there any opinions of Audio Note or Antique Sound Labs?
Thanks for all the responses.
Edits: 03/18/12
Well, being an owner of Audio Note (UK) equipment, I can certainly say that the quality is very high, but so is the price. The used price of their OTO and SORO integrated line-stage PP and SE amps falls within your price bracket (as do the power amp versions - P1 and P2 PP and SE).
I really like the OTO SE version (10W) and, to a lesser extent, the SORO PP (20W), and I would guess both would work fine with your type of music on your speakers.
If power is a concern you could also buy a new Rogue Cronus or Magnum integrated that lie in your price-range. The power amp version (Atlas) was my first tube amp, and I was pretty happy with it as a starter, once I started using the EH6CA7 and KT77 tubes. I think these amps now also take the heftier KT90 and KT120 tubes. Stereophile has reviews, one old and one new.
Otherwise, new, you are basically talking about Jolida, Cayin, PrimaLuna, and a bunch of other, lower quality Chinese amps. I've never heard an Antique Sound Labs amp.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
The tube lineup is very important to me for best sonics. Of course, others factors are important. Using 6922 I must have early Siemens 6922 at $50 to $100 each. I perform DIY so I just pick the tubes types.
Look at Figure 1 and the surrounding text in the URL I posted. As the text suggests, it is an easy to drive speaker, but you may want to look for an amp with a low source impedance. This doesn't necessarily rule out tube amps and you may note, if you read the whole review, that the speakers were able to drive a 300B amp (i.e., DHT SET), and i do concur with the poster who stated that DHT SET amps sound very good on "small" group and contemporary vocal music. I get very good sonics from a pair of LS3/5A speakers ( < 85dB sensitive) played through a 300B integrated amp.
Speaker sensitivity is just one factor in determining how easy a set of speakers are to drive.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
" I'm interested primarily in classical solo piano, small chamber, and small ensemble jazz. Detail is probably what interests me most. "Go with a DHTSET at whatever power it takes to drive your Proac's'''' or a DHTPP with enough watts to drive them.
For small ensemble music the DHT is superb!
Have fun!
Willie
Edits: 03/17/12
I completely agree with Willie here. I'm a musician and listen to classical, jazz and small groups. Detail is very important, but equally important is timbre - I'm sure the OP will agree.
I only use DHTs in my system - have been building with them for years now. This means not just the output stages - 300b, 2a3 etc - but the input and driver stage. As for push pull or single ended, I'm OK with either. the most important is to use DHTs right through the amplification chain.
What's the difference between DHTs and indirectly heated tubes? Well, what I hear is more delicacy and a see-through clarity that I don't get otherwise. With indirectly heated tubes I hear a subtle haze and thickness to the sound.
Can you get an all-DHT system in a shop? I doubt it. It's something that has to be specially built - by somebody else if you are not a builder yourself. I build small numbers for myself but not commercially, but I'm in the UK. You'll find builders on the DIY tube asylum and if you want to go down that road you could post for somebody to build for you.
You would be looking at 3 stages. The first would probably be with a 26 tube - there's a huge thread over on DIY Audio called "26 pre amp" which tells you exactly how to do the preamp stage. You then need two stages in the amp - 2a3 or 300b outputs for 8 watts or more, and then a driver like 46, 6B4G, 2a3, 71A, 10Y and so on. Designs would be very like Lynn Olsen's over on http://www.nutshellhifi.com/.
You won't find many people telling you to go down this road, but it's sufficiently important to me as a musician that I can't live with anything else.
Andy
Wonderful integrated amp. Class A PP, 100W. Uses 4 KT-88, 2 12AX7s, 2 EF86s. Custom made, hardwired, lifetime transferable warranty. Very nice amp, does everything you'll want it to and then some. Highly recommended.
See link below.
Jack
Edits: 03/17/12
I'd recommend talking to Blair Lamphear at niteshadeaudio dot com and let him build you one.
Depending on budget - and if you are interested in dealing with a kit, you might be interested in Transcendent Sound Beast OTL amp. Removing that last dern tranny from between the amp and speakers does amazing things for the sound.
I believe it is 160 wpc. I could not recommend Bruce's lower powered amps for Proacs however. I owned D15s previous to my Reference 3A DeCapos and they love tube amps, but are power hungry.
I also drove my ProAcs while I had them with some very musical and dynamic sounding digital amps from ClassDAudio.
As far as PreAmp, Transcendent's Grounded Grid Pre is magnificent, can be bought fully assembled and is the best single improvement I ever made from any of my HIFI upgrades, ever.
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