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One of my readers just suggested that the Bendix 6900s would be the cat's meow in my new ModWright SWL 9.0SE preamp (5687s are standard).I'm new to this particular family of valves so any suggestions from actual experience, on what seem worthy alternatives (either 5687s or their derivatives) would be welcome. Since we're just talking two in my application, even more expensive rarities may apply if they're truly superior and not just expensive -:)
Follow Ups:
Dear Srajan,The 5687 was designed in 1948/49 by Tungsol (I have 4 of the original factory test samples with dates!), the very early versions are by far the best sounding but extremely hard to find in good working order, otherwise the equivalents are,
7044, too bright and forward for my liking, although good in other applications, as driver or second stage line stage in transformer coupled circuits for example.
E182CC, best versions by Philips in Holland and Telefunken (off course), the Mullard UK was normally the US-made 7119 rebranded. The French RTF is a Philips tooled version, but sounds slightly less pure. The E182CC is my favourite sounding equivalent.
7119, the Amperex is the same as the E182CC Philips Holland above and sometimes cheaper as a result.
6900, I know this is a popular tube with many, but I have to say I find it quite poor sounding, heavy and bright at the same time.
All brands of 5687, my favourites are the Tungsol and Raytheon, but the five star GE and Japanese Toshiba is not bad either, generally the 5687 is slight dark in character, exemplified by the Philips/ECG version which is very common.
Hope this is of use.
I agree with Peter.I have GE 5 star, RCA (early and later production), Amperex, Tung Sol and Raytheon 5687 tubes. I prefer the Raytheon, Tung Sol 5687's and Amperex / Philips 7119 (Holland).
I found the GE, late production RCA, and Amperex 5687's to have a very similar sound.
The true standout for me were the Raytheons, Tung Sols, and 7119 (E182CC).
I have a Modwright Music Hall CD25 which utilizes 5687 tubes. Dan himself mentioned I could use 7119 tubes as an alternative, specifically Amperex PQ 7119 white labels. They are lighter and airier than the Tungsol 5687, with nice sparkle on top. a litte more detail too.May or may not be what you are looking for. I would also confirm with Dan what you can use (and can't) in that specific preamp circuit.
Regards,
I use the 5687 in a Border Patrol SE300B, where it drives the 300B by means of an interstage transformer. In this application, the 7044 and the E182CC may be substituted. Some diyers on this asylum, I recall, have expressed a preference for using the 5687 at a higher plate voltage, something in the order of 250v; I am not at all sure such plate voltages would be apposite to the substitutes, particularly, the E182CC, but, perhaps, someone is qualified to pronounce on this. Anyway, I would be surprised if the ModWright operated at such, higher voltages. I have always found the 5687 preferable in the Border Patrol, though, on a number of occasions, I have heard from others, Gary Dews (the designer of the Border Patrol) among them, their preference for the E182CC, speaking of greater drive, higher resolution. I have not been able to confirm such reports: for some, possibly, the qualities alluded to result from the higher gain of the substitutes, the Mu of the 7044 being 21 and that of the E182CC being 24 against the 18 of the 5687. I note, also, that in the new Border Patrol Control Unit, Gary has utilized the 5687; this does not contradict his earlier expressed preference for the use of the E182CC in the three-stage SE300B, for the application is quite different.I have acquired, '54 Tung Sol, l50s Raytheon, cryogenically treated 60s Tung Sol (from ATSI), l50s/e60s bronze plate Tung Sol, inter alia, but current favorite for its compromise of qualities - came upon without recommendation, indeed, stumbled upon — is the GE5687 5 star, production sometime after '62 when the plates were perforated with two holes on each triode — I believe there is a clearly discernible, but subtle difference between this type and other GE5687 5 star.
You can also try a 7044.
Pin out is different, mu is greater, and heater draw is more, but the ECC99 has the VIRTUE of being in production.All of the HIGH gm/LOW Rp medium mu/medium power triodes mentioned in this thread are NICE.
Eli D.
There's been some discussion on Head-Fi about the 5687 for use in Ray Samuels Raptor.I think SACDLover recommended the Tung-Sol 5687 black plate D getter?
Ask recstar24 since he reviewed the Raptor and you might be familiar with his audio tastes?
Good Luck
A good place to start would be with the various types of 5687s that are available. Of the U.S. manufacturers only Tung Sol, Sylvania and G.E. ever made this tube so that pretty much narrows things down a bit. I know that Dan has in the past used some Raytheon branded tubes that were later production but sounded good. Usually on this tube the earlier the better. I have a customer in the U.K. that uses Audio Note and really likes the Sylvanias. Many of these tubes are rebrands so you have to know a bit about structure to be able to differentiate between manufacturers. Traditional consesus, sometimes right sometimes wrong, places the 50s Tung Sol black plates at the top of the heap.
Excuse me...it is RCA, Tung Sol and Sylvania.
Dear Joe,Don't forget Raytheon, GE, Toshiba and CBS.
There were others I am sure.
what have you that is more expensive than the 6900?
cheers,
Fred
Dear Fred,The parallel staggered plate 1949 Tungsol is both better and more expensive.
Nothing yet. This reco came in earlier today and before I act on it, I wanted to scope out the scene and learn what else there is I might consider and what kind of feedback users have on the various options -:)Again, I'm not wanting rare and expensive just for its own sake, just meant to say that even if one of those li'l fire plugs weighed in, I'd consider it seeing I only need two...
You can also try the 7119/E182CC .
I heard the preamp yesterday at the Los Angeles Orange County Audio Society and was favorably impressed. Dan Wright was there discussing the new preamp and he also brought along a stock Denon player and one he'd modded. The differences between the two were obvious. The rest of the system was comprised of Manley 250 amps, Dacapo Reference 3Ai speakers and all the cabling was Kubala-Sosna Emotion.I have one of his modded Music Hall CD25s and it came stock with Tung-Sol 5687s which are fine tubes - nice detail with a 3-dimensional soundstage, very smooth from top to bottom. I've tried various other Tung-Sols and my favorites are the 50s blackplates for that tube. Also tried 7044s (very detailed and forward soundstage) and 7119s. I find the Amperex 7119 PQ white labels to offer the best comprise between the detail of the 7044s with the smoothness and dimensionality of the TS 5687s. I've found the Amperex PQ 7119 orange label a little to forward for my taste.
With the exception of the Bendix 6900 (which I found just bland), they're all reasonably priced and you should try whatever ones you can find. That's half the fun, isn't it?
By the way, I found your review of the preamp to be excellent - very informative.
Hey, this is the fun part of the Asylum - the kindness of strangers, sharing from experience and with enthusiasm. Gracias, amigos. Now I'm ready for the next reviewer tarring-and-feathering session -:)
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