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if you can make this change and don't! The first few days were nice. The difference was obvious, not ground shaking but positive and then the 4 100uF and one 20uF ASC caps per Cary Six Pac mono block in place of the 280uF electrolytics that came with the amp, took off. I have used the ASC caps before and have not experienced much break-in but the change here was very noticeable.
For one the delineation of instruments took on an eerie nature of realism that I "thought" I had experienced in my room; but the sound now betrays what I thought was very good was an image of what could be. The slap echo on recordings is much more clear. Voices that were mere sound before now utter intelligible words that can be understood. The stage has deepened with a quality of voice and notes that intertwine, mingle and yet remain intact from the source of each sound. Background voice and instrument has a strength and quality that belies artificial reproduction. Bass is more tuneful, faster and tight. There is a roundness and bloom to the music that makes it very three-dimensional. I notice that notes float past and pulse forward as natural sounds do and notes within notes play on the harmonic nature of the musical presentation. I also notice that there is more music and focus outside of the outer edges of the speakers. Also the rightness of the harmonics floating forth from the instruments is beguiling.Exciting stuff. I do not understand why manufactures avoid using these caps. Yes they are large but when you are talking about a 5 thousand dollar amp or more, big deal. And the sound! Well there are no electrolytics in the B+ here and the only thing I regret is that I took so long, but I am glad I went for this. Oh, I rewired the umbilical, shortening it to about 1 foot and I am using 14 gauge pure solid silver in Teflon tubing. The capacitors are to the rear of the amp and still need a housing but will be another project soon to be completed.
ja in partly cloudy, cool at night, Tucson, AZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
Follow Ups:
As a fellow Six Pac owner I wish I had your electrical know how. I would love to be able to tweak mine like you have tweaked yours.BTW, I have to disagree with you on the stock tubes. I get much better results from Svetlana EL34's. I have some EH's on order to see how they sound, but this last weekend I again went back and forth between stock and Svetlana's and it was really no match.
IMHOAll the best,
James
that they were poorly matched and as they aged they got worse, which I feel in this amp shortened their life. I spoke with Cary Audio and they get the tubes matched from China, and leave it at that. I bought another set of 12 from The Tube Store and they burn the tubes in and then match them. They have found that the "matched" tubes from China are no more matched than random tubes. The tube I got from The Tube Store sounded better, as they are truly matched, and have been running for quite some time. I can check current draw on tubes and the original ones were horrible with regards to being close to each other. The second set are still very close. This would take the strain off of each tube and allow for the best life of each one.ja in clear, sunny and a nice cool night, Tucson, AZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
I thought it would be no contest between the two so I ordered 12 nice new Svets. I let them burn in and listened and I just do not get the scope of sound I get with the EL34B's. Dennis actually tuned the opt's to the EL34B. I am not sure of why there would be a difference between what we hear but maybe it is the rest of the system. I have the true Svetlana and not the Sovtek version.ja in clear, warm and sunny, Tucson, AZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
Mine are the new ones which is most likely the difference. I'm getting the EH's next week. I'll post my thoughts after burn in.The six pacs are great right out of the box. But, at some point, I will send them back to Cary for any and all upgrades they can do. I sense their potential.
In hot Ventura County...
James
I spoke with Kirk the other day and asked if there had been any changes and stated that there were no changes to the amp at this time and they do not expect any because it is selling so well.ja in clear, cool and dark outside, Tucson, AZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
It seems like you've taken this amp to amazing places. Once you've tweaked it all you can, do you (by chance) plan to sell your modificaiton services? Just curious.
I have modified dac for people but I am not sure. I was listening this am before coming to work and the sound is just so different and beautiful it is exciting. As these caps break in I will know more.ja in sunny and pleasant Tucson, AZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
One almost always gets a dramatic improvement when replacing electrolytics with film caps. The gap in technical performance is so huge; dielectric absorption, leakage current, ESR.... you name it.
However, I find Solens better than ASC in power supplies. You can get 50uF and 100uF Solens in radial cans. Ansar in the UK also makes excellent caps. If you want oil impregnated caps, the GE motor run caps are also excellent choices. All of these sound "faster" than the ASC, which I find can curtail dynamics.Adrian
P.S. The average manufacturing cost of a $5000 amplifier is around $1000. A $30 component (especially when you need several) would make a big difference to profit, especially when you can get standard electrolytics for less than 10% of the cost.
What I hear with the Solen cap is good if bypassed. I suggested them to a manufacture of tube equipment a few years ago, who tries out my suggestions from time to time, and he did not like them. He heard the same thing I do when they are not bypassed and for production he did not want to bypass and go through the extra steps. The speed and dynamics of my system can startle. I find that using the 100uF caps and a 20uF ASC has a synergistic effect. I have many Solens sitting in a box and I know some people really like them but I have found that my own preference has leaned towards the ASC or that type. I listen to a lot of "live" music and with my setup now, I sometimes prefer my system, except for the fun of being around other people, which is not always that much fun.I have manufactured in the past and I realize what additional cost do but cost no object or just the "improved" model would still seem to be very viable in this market, especially when some people are able to pay the higher cost, desiring the best sound they can get.
ja in clear and a cool morning, Tucson, AZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
I don't know if you are aware John, but motor run caps in general carry an AC voltage rating but not a DC voltage rating. Now your ASC's might but most don't. In the past they did. I have a GE 97F sereis in front of me that says 440 VAC and 1,000 VDC. But new ones aren't DC rated. They do make other series that are DC rated though. So maybe the biggest reason is more to do with UL approval and legal things than money and space.Just a thought.
Glad you like the caps and don't be afraid to try them in other locations. I used them for speaker crossover and others have reported good sound in coupling cap locations. You can buy small size ones like 1.0 uF.
Russ
mostly the smaller values like 1 uf that you mentioned?Thanx
just do ac times 1.6 and you have a good rule of thumb for dc
their caps are going to be increased in AC voltage to 440 on all and that the DC is at least 800volts. I did a breakdown voltage on them and at 900 volts they were still fine. There was little leakage to almost none on some. The 100uF were less that 1% or their uF rating! All of them. I was surprised by this.ja in cool and getting warm again, Tucson, AZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
I've been messing round with the Russian teflon caps - cheap enough to do so. Made a 1uF with ten .1uF and it outclasses all the polypropylenes I've tried. Haven't tried paper in oils - what are you using?
you find you like the sound even more.ja in clear and a nice cool morning, Tucson, AZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
excellent. I find that a pio bypassed with a .056 or .1, depending on the application is very good but the stacked .1 with a .056 or without are great.I have tried them in amplifiers and preamps.
ja in clear and cool, Tucson, aZ
The Elaborate DAC=55/76 or 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
I have a bunch of the 0.1uF Russian Teflon caps that I am planning on using in my next project: a Telefunken V69a clone.
In my other amps, I have used NOS TCC super metalpak PIO caps and Jupiter wax caps.
As for PIOs, I have tried Jensen and AN copper foil, but I prefer the TCC. These are getting hard to find though.
In my preamp, I use NOS Siemens MKY polypropylene caps.Adrian
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